Marshal Rohr Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Titanicus is Horus Heresy game Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 It's a specialist game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Now that 40k is steaming ahead and GW is bringing the most successful elements of 30k into the the regular game, Forgeworld is probably deflated. What successful elements of Heresy has GW brought into 40k? Rites of War, focus on historical/narrative play, Legion rules, rough rules balance (pre-Inferno): these are all things people love about Heresy. Oh, and primarchs. The last of these is the only thing GW brought into 8th. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Different detachment types, Primarchs, updates to lore Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167849 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Now that 40k is steaming ahead and GW is bringing the most successful elements of 30k into the the regular game, Forgeworld is probably deflated. What successful elements of Heresy has GW brought into 40k? Rites of War, focus on historical/narrative play, Legion rules, rough rules balance (pre-Inferno): these are all things people love about Heresy. Oh, and primarchs. The last of these is the only thing GW brought into 8th. Contemptors, Cataphractii, Indomitus, Mk III and IV armor. Mk X armor is designed to look like HH suits. There's a lot they've pulled in over the last few years. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167852 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0nolith Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Now that 40k is steaming ahead and GW is bringing the most successful elements of 30k into the the regular game, Forgeworld is probably deflated. What successful elements of Heresy has GW brought into 40k? Rites of War, focus on historical/narrative play, Legion rules, rough rules balance (pre-Inferno): these are all things people love about Heresy. Oh, and primarchs. The last of these is the only thing GW brought into 8th. Contemptors, Cataphractii, Indomitus, Mk III and IV armor. Mk X armor is designed to look like HH suits. There's a lot they've pulled in over the last few years. In regards to the lore; The Ruinstorm from the HH was directly copied and redone in the guise of "the Great Rift". One can also make connections between Imperium Secundus and Imperium Nihilus, and in both cases Gulliman helps appoint a Blood Angel in control of it, Sanguinius in IS and Dante in IN. Edit; That was just off the top of my head. There's plenty more. Brother on brother Primarch antagonism again, Custodes are out and about again, Daemons attack Terra again, Legions are back in the form of Unnumbered Sons, ect ect. There are so many elements directly lifted from the HH and replicated in the new 40k lore, albeit in a poorer quality compared to the original. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167859 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 There are actually less Custodes out and about during the Heresy than in modern 40k. ADB made that clear and Inferno reinforced it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5167878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalwolf Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Can you guys stop making me enjoy more and more the new fluff please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I love the new lore Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Different detachment types, Primarchs, updates to lore Different detachment types existed in 7th: they were called formations and were one of the primary flaws in any rough attempt at balance. Also, the different detachment types in Heresy seem to be barely used and not fundamental to the game the way that detachments have exploded in 8th. I have a hard time seeing Vanguard, Supreme Command, and Super-heavy detachments as being inspired by the Castellan or Onslaught force org charts from Heresy. Unless you meant something else? To say that updating the lore is something taken from Heresy feels so vague as to be a true but meaningless statement. Unless you meant that the updates to the lore mimic the Heresy, which would make more sense. Contemptors, Cataphractii, Indomitus, Mk III and IV armor. Mk X armor is designed to look like HH suits. There's a lot they've pulled in over the last few years. All of those things, except Mk X armour, already existed in 7th, and some existed in 6th and even 5th edition. Mk X is a better example. In regards to the lore; The Ruinstorm from the HH was directly copied and redone in the guise of "the Great Rift". One can also make connections between Imperium Secundus and Imperium Nihilus, and in both cases Gulliman helps appoint a Blood Angel in control of it, Sanguinius in IS and Dante in IN. Edit; That was just off the top of my head. There's plenty more. Brother on brother Primarch antagonism again, Custodes are out and about again, Daemons attack Terra again, Legions are back in the form of Unnumbered Sons, ect ect. There are so many elements directly lifted from the HH and replicated in the new 40k lore, albeit in a poorer quality compared to the original. That all sounds more or less right. I'll admit that I haven't followed the new lore closely. I've always been more into the Inquisitor/Necromunda sort of lore and stories than the massive war/conquest stuff. The interesting thing is that other than new detachments, nothing listed here has to do with gameplay, it all has to do with models and story. This suggests to me that 8th ed took nothing from Heresy, and the sculpting team and writing team took loads of inspiration from the Heresy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Formations weren't detachments, there was no freedom within them. In HH there are different detachments that have varying minimum requirements to unlock, and the same is true in 8th. There are definite comparisons to be made. Aside from that the game is a lot more streamlined and the rules have changed so the two systems are now significantly different (which is ultimately detrimental to the HH game). GW has definitely seen what was well received in the HH in terms of lore and themes. I think 40k is in a better place than it has been in a long, long time. I wish FW could capitalise on it more. As I said I think they are truly missing out by not updating the rules for the Custodes and Mechanicum units for use in 8th more quickly, and they've missed out on an opportunity to give us conversion kits for Primaris - something that collectors across the Internet vocally desire as a way to make their armies look more unique and distinctive. If they created alternative turrets for the Repulsor and arm variants for the Redemptor people would be all over them like a rash. It's unfortunate that they aren't contributing to 40k in any capacity and have slowed right down in regards to their main line Horus Heresy game... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriks Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Contemptors, Cataphractii, Indomitus, Mk III and IV armor. Mk X armor is designed to look like HH suits. There's a lot they've pulled in over the last few years. All of those things, except Mk X armour, already existed in 7th, and some existed in 6th and even 5th edition. Mk X is a better example. Sorry, you asked what HH elements got pulled into 40k, not 8th Ed. If you only meant 8th Ed then even Primarchs were technically out in 7th. Magnus and Guilliman both came before 8th. But Ishagu's post you were responding to wasn't about 8th specifically, just 40k. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ficinus Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Formations weren't detachments, there was no freedom within them. In HH there are different detachments that have varying minimum requirements to unlock, and the same is true in 8th. There are definite comparisons to be made. Aside from that the game is a lot more streamlined and the rules have changed so the two systems are now significantly different (which is ultimately detrimental to the HH game). GW has definitely seen what was well received in the HH in terms of lore and themes. I think 40k is in a better place than it has been in a long, long time. I wish FW could capitalise on it more. As I said I think they are truly missing out by not updating the rules for the Custodes and Mechanicum units for use in 8th more quickly, and they've missed out on an opportunity to give us conversion kits for Primaris - something that collectors across the Internet vocally desire as a way to make their armies look more unique and distinctive. If they created alternative turrets for the Repulsor and arm variants for the Redemptor people would be all over them like a rash. It's unfortunate that they aren't contributing to 40k in any capacity and have slowed right down in regards to their main line Horus Heresy game... I feel like the way formations allowed you to mix and match different things to slam together an army, taking one of these formations, then one of these, and then this third one to build an army feels more like the new system than Heresy's three alternate force org charts (the standard is one HQ and two Troops, the alternates are one HQ and three Troops and provides bonus fortification slots and one HQ, one Troop, and one Heavy Support that provides a bonus Lord of War slot). I guess it depends on whether the mechanic you're focusing on is the mix and match to take whatever you want element or the fact that there are force orgs that are at all different from the standard one. That said, you're right that Forge World should be providing 8th ed rules for their Custodes, Sisters, and Mechanicum models and should be producing more for the Heresy and for 8th. It seems like Specialists Games has sucked away all their focus (I can only assume). Sorry, you asked what HH elements got pulled into 40k, not 8th Ed. If you only meant 8th Ed then even Primarchs were technically out in 7th. Magnus and Guilliman both came before 8th. But Ishagu's post you were responding to wasn't about 8th specifically, just 40k. You know, you're right. I had assumed from context that Ishagu's post had meant 8th, but it didn't actually say that. But, still, the alternate marks of armour were initially made for 40k. It was only later that they became associated with an alternate way to play. I don't know the history well enough to know if Contemptors or the alternate terminator armours were first made specifically for the Heresy system or existed before that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168099 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbienw Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Not contributing to 40k in any capacity? Well that is not right, they have got some 40k rules out this year. You shouldn't be surprised they cant do much more for 40k when they have lots of specialist games work to do, as well as continuing 30k stuff, with a limited amount of staff. I'm sure they'd like to do more, but they have to deal with whatever staffing numbers/budget they are allowed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 In any significant capacity * Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I guess the Custodes book coming at Christmas isn’t significant. Even though it’s what you just asked for not even one page ago. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168120 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I'll be impressed if it actually comes out! They've delayed so much other stuff... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 So that they could work on this. Fires was delayed to make the Indexes. Malevolence has been delayed to make the Custodes book. So, in reality, they are doing the very thing you want them to do. Focus on 40k. It’s just taking such a long time because the studio didn’t rope them in on the 8th edition changes, corporate retasked them mid-project to Work on 8th edition, and they haven’t been releasing many product lately because upgrade kits and conversions are going the way of the dodo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5168141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 * have been sent the way of the dodo. ;) Though, strictly, we don't have the facts to know either way, but I'm happy to blame decision making in the absence of sales data. And on a related note, and agreeing with Ishagu, from our perspectives it's not entirely correct to say 'Fires of Cyraxis has been delayed', it may be neglected, overlooked, forgotten, superceded, uietly taken out the back and shot, laboured on furiously since its inception with only the time line for its creation having been ignorantly or maliciously misreported. All of those, and many others, may well be true. (Though perhaps not in all combinations.) Which is: we can believe it when we see it, until such a time it is not necessarily worth giving the benefit of the doubt. (No pressing need for cynicism either, mind. But sternly reserving judgement? Perhaps useful. At least in managing one's own expectations. Myself? I think I'm susceptible to believing my own [let alone anyone else's] BS, but then I would say that... :D ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5170013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Different detachment types, Primarchs, updates to lore Lots of characters in the army with buffs, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350045-state-of-forge-world/page/5/#findComment-5170237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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