Astra Militarum strategies vs other factions

[Wassa]

I am entering a friendly 1500pt tournament soon (just to meet people at the local gaming club) and as a newish player I have some questions about strategies about other factions.

 

So far we have:

 

• Space Wolves
• Ultramarines
• Blood Angels
• Necrons
• Orks
• Another Astra Militarum
• Deathguard

As it is WYSIWYG I'm limited to playing either full Cadian, Catachan, or a mixture.

 

Are there any specific strategies I should take heed of against specific opponents?

 

Do I just try to out-shoot them all and go for their anti tank weaponry first? (I like vehicles).

 

vs Space Wolves, Blood Angels, 

I think I need to shoot them as much as possible and stay away from close combat.

Blood Angels can deep strike a lot and are quite fast.

I'll need some AP weaponry or volume of fire.

 

vs Orks

Again, stay away from combat and use volume of fire so Punishers/Mortars.

 

vs Astra Militarum

Not sure how this one will play out, I think snipers may be a good choice to try and take out the buffing characters.

I'll need a lot of anti tank and anti infantry.

 

 

I have no idea about the other factions?

 

 

 

 

[Wassa]

But is it better to charge than be charged next turn?

 

Also should I focus on wiping out whole units in a turn or using the most appropriate weapons on different targets but it may take longer to kill each unit?

[WarriorFish]

Aside from "shoot them all until there are none left"? I think as you're looking for strategies you should try and separate the list building aspect, more so if it's tourney where presumably you have one list. For examples if your list features no mortars it's no use planning anything with them!

 

With that in mind, you're looking at more general plans - unfortunately that's going to be mostly the same as always. Shooting is how Guard wins, so you need some mobility to ensure your shooting is at its most efficient. No point having a big gun if you can't target the big threats after all! Otherwise, keep your infantry close to the heavy hitters (but not too close - think of the 9" Deep Strike bubble, and 3" consolidation after combat). Let them hold the line, while your back line kills the enemy.

 

With how 8th works it is seldom worth charging first. The Guardsmen will do little, and probably be wiped out by the return hits. Better to let the enemy hit the squad in their turn, and should the squad survive fall them back and engage with Plan A again

 

Equally it's generally best to wipe a unit out completely, but sometimes you can afford to spread the love around. Usually this is only when the targets are further away and therefore less threat, or if you can effectively reduce their output in doing so. Maybe severely damaging/depleting a unit might hinder your opponent (e.g. crippled vehicle in the way of an advance), or you're not sure which unit is going to make the decisive move yet. Otherwise a removed enemy unit is always no threat

 

 

Last but not least; all the basics stand too of course. Good target prioritisation is key as always, as is the marshalling of your units effectively. Always play the mission too, as whatever happens during the game if you get the most victory points you still win :D

[librisrouge]

I wonder, and this is just spitballing here, have you considered shooting them? A lot? Like, shoot them a ton and then hold the trigger down for a bit?

 

Seems to work rather well, in my opinion.

 

Aside from that, consider how you're going to hold objectives and not just the ones in your deployment. Some MT or the outflank dagger relic would be a good idea to throw a squad or two into the enemy's backfield late in the game. They can rush to an objective and hopefully survive a turn or two and score some clutch points.

[Wassa]

Standard strategy then, bubble wrap, advance and shoot!

 

 

It's an interesting tournament, but also a bit like a campaign.

 

Lists are initially restricted to 1 codex with no relics, special characters, or forgeworld.

You can spend accumulated points to unlock a relic slot, an additional codex slot, or forgeworld slots.

 

Armies can be restructured between games so lists can be optimised for your opponent and more diverse.

[Tirak]

What do you have? A bit hard to suggest strategy if we don't know what force you're able to field.

[Wassa]

Nah was more after general tactics than army lists.

 

But as it goes:

60 Cadians

30 Catachans

4 Models for commanders/lieutenants.

1 Colonel Straken

1 Sgt Harker

1 Missionary

1 Primaris Psyker

1 Astropath

1 Officer of fleet

1 Master of ordanance

1 Leman Russ Punisher

1 Leman Russ Demolisher

1 Leman Russ Battle Cannon

1 Leman Russ Punisher/Executioner/Demolisher (magnetised)

2 Basilisk

1 Manticore

1 Hellhound

1 Valkyrie

1 Cyclops Demo Vehicle

10 Ratlings

3 Bullgryns

4 Mortars

4 Autocannons

4 Missile Launchers

4 Lascannons

4 Heavy Bolters

1 Baneblade/Shadowsword/.../Octoblade (magnetised)

1 Sentinel

1 Wyvern/Hydra (magnetised)

[Tirak]

So I'm a fan of Catachan Uber Alles, and to be blunt anyone giving you guff about using normal guardsmen for Catachan needs to understand that guardsmen standard equipment is standard across all regiments, modifications are made on the individual regiment level so there's zero issue with fielding them all as such.

 

Now aside from the obvious power of the Catachan S4 against every single one of your opponents, it also lets you make best use of all your tanks (save for your Punishers, but they'll not be standing still anyway so Cadian's can suck it).

 

Punishers are never wrong, and I highly recommend you take both of them. They'll be major targets for the enemy and they burn out the chaff, even Space Marines don't suffer Punisher fire well. If you had Vultures I'd have told you to take those with punishers, but the Russes will be fine.

 

To get the most out of your Catachan buff you'll want as many russes as you can manage, the stock russ is the best, but I see you only have one, so basilisks are a fine support.

 

Your somewhat eclectic tank collection leaves you room to take a bullgryn drop if you want to.

 

You're going to want all 90 of your infantry fielded, and i suggest you break them into a few lines, one designed to take a charge, which should be as cheap as possible, one for fire support rapid and one for fire support AT. All that needs to screen your tanks.

 

Blood Angels will be in your face turn 1, so make sure you have a solid Guard line to take the charge. You can survive it and dish out quite a bit of damage with Catachans.

 

As most said, the ":cuss YOU Gunline" is your best bet here, but by taking Catachans you'll be making your screen extra thorny, if your opponent doesn't recognize that, he'll come out of each fight worse off than he calculated, and if you bring enough infantry, you can even just charge them to wrap them up. Catachan's also give you Viscious Traps, making charges even more difficult on the enemy because you bring the threat of mortal wounds to the table with it. Of your advisors, the OotF and the MoO are both rather useless to you as the enemy is going to be in your face from the get go.

 

I recommend your Sentinel go Lascannon if it can since it's the cheapest lascannon in the game at 10 points.

 

If you must bring a baneblade, bring the Shadowsword, nothing else comes close, and bring it in a Vostroyan Supreme Command Detachment with your Primaris Psyker and 2 other HQ advisors, if you can convince them that you've got 2 Lord Commissars that are actually Officers.

 

Missile Launchers are inferior to Lascannons, don't bring them. Autocannons are not good for Catachan, don't bring them. Heavy Bolters are murder on a budget, bring them. Mortars are murder on a cheaper budget, I say drag them in a heavy weapons team to hide your Lascannons and you're probably golden.

[Mr4Minutes]

Standard strategy then, bubble wrap, advance and shoot!

 

 

It's an interesting tournament, but also a bit like a campaign.

 

Lists are initially restricted to 1 codex with no relics, special characters, or forgeworld.

You can spend accumulated points to unlock a relic slot, an additional codex slot, or forgeworld slots.

 

Armies can be restructured between games so lists can be optimised for your opponent and more diverse.

Single Codex? Stand and shoot! With a strong screen and some big guns in the back, the guard are a pretty strong mono codex vs other non eldar mono codexes.

 

I like 2 SWS in a Valkyrie for fun and mobility. I usually roll 2 melta and a demo charge in each. Scions dropping to cap objectives are also decent.

 

My general strategy is give up board control turn1 and 2, and by t3 I’ve killed enough that I can start spreading out from my deployment zone to take back the board.

[sairence]

Aside from my natural dislike for Catachan infantry (S4? What are we, glory-hogging Marines?) I found that giving up board control at the start of the game leaves you out of position for later objective grabbing. Which will be the important thing in fun missions. Gunlining hard is boring and not how you win games imo.

 

Basically, in my view your infantry should never stand still. Move them up, box your opponent in and shoot the crap out of him while you're at it.

[Tirak]

Aside from my natural dislike for Catachan infantry (S4? What are we, glory-hogging Marines?) I found that giving up board control at the start of the game leaves you out of position for later objective grabbing. Which will be the important thing in fun missions. Gunlining hard is boring and not how you win games imo.

 

Basically, in my view your infantry should never stand still. Move them up, box your opponent in and shoot the crap out of him while you're at it.

 

He won't have the opportunity against some of these armies. They will be in his face turn one, so you need to bubblewrap hard, accept the charge, break it, then exploit. The initial assault should be broken before pushing out, and that's the point of establishing the gunline. We don't stop and stay in the gunline only, but because of Move! Move! Move!, we can move out very late and still nail objectives easily.

 

Also, Space Marines only get S4 when they put on armor, Catachan's do it all natural.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/e/e0/Catachan_DevilCaptain.jpg/200px-Catachan_DevilCaptain.jpg

 

Welcome to the Gun Show

[Kallas]

With how 8th works it is seldom worth charging first. The Guardsmen will do little, and probably be wiped out by the return hits. Better to let the enemy hit the squad in their turn, and should the squad survive fall them back and engage with Plan A again

 

Against Space Marines of most stripes that isn't necessarily true! Of course, don't charge the big 15-man Death Company squad, but if they're running MSU (they almost certainly are) then a squad of Grey Hunters, Blood Angels Tacticals/Scouts, etc will generally not kill 10 Guardsmen. That then forces them to either stay in combat (and usually with a lower effectiveness, SW and BA both have a bonus on the charged/when charged, so not in subsequent rounds!) and probably not do much with their Bolt Pistols, or fall back and not be able to shoot/charge.

 

Then again, beating Space Marines isn't difficult , but it's worth knowing when you can charge in to tie things up a little bit. For example, a 5-man BA Scout Squad with Bolters and a Heavy Bolter will statistically cause about 1 kill in overwatch; assuming that you kill none in the fight (that's not your main goal anyway!) then they'll kill 2/3 in return, which will likely cause at most about 4/5 casualties after morale. If you account for a bit of luck, you'll lose about 7/8, but that's still enough to keep them tied up in their turn, and it's about the same for an MSU of Tactical Marines with Plasma/Melta, which are far more dangerous when shooting. Even if they're Knife Scouts, they'll only kill about 4 between overwatch/melee, then say 2/3 more in morale - again, enough to keep them from moving up to engage a more potent unit like a Leman Russ!

 

There's value in preemptively charging a unit with your guardsmen (even more so if you're Catachan!), you just have to know what/when to do so.

 

Also, Space Marines only get S4 when they put on armor, Catachan's do it all natural.

 

Scouts are S4 in Carapace Armour, I'm afraid. Space Marine S4 is actually woefully unrepresentative of their actual, loreful strength even out of Power Armour!

[noigrim]

Vs necros cobcentrate on wiping out one unit at a time so they don't regenerate

[MARK0SIAN]

I wouldn’t bother with the snipers, even against guard. A squad of guard snipers will take 3 turns to kill even a single guard character. The points are better spent on almost anything else like astropaths or psykers or even more regular infantry.

[Least Devotee]

Vs necros cobcentrate on wiping out one unit at a time so they don't regenerate

This so much this. I have a friend that plays Necrons and I've killed close to 60 warriors out of a 20 strong squad cause I didn't manage to kill the entire squad during my turns.

[Wassa]

Had a friendly 1250pt game against Space Wolves last night.

 

2 Company Commanders

5 Infantry Squads

1 Astropath

3 Mortars

3 Bullgryns

1 Hellhound

1 Pask in Punisher, Lascannon, Plasmas

1 LRBT (barebones)

1 Manticore

1 Valkyrie

 

 

He pretty much spent the game slicing through 50 guardsmen while I pounded him from my back line, eventually tabling him turn 3.

However it was close as after the second round he had killed them all and was close to closing in on my vehicles.

The Hellhound went into suicide mode to tie them up and the space wolves learnt the hard way that being in combat with it wasn't the best of ideas!

[Wassa]

To be honest the Valkyrie and the Bullgryns was just a last minute "lets stick on 250 points because I've just painted the valk and I want it to see the battlefield" decision!

 

We had 3 objectives, I sat on one, there was on in the middle, and there was one in his back line which he abandoned to get within range of me.

 

The Valkyrie had the 2 Multiple Rocket Pods and a Multi laser and I put 3 Bullgryns inside and planned to take the objective in his rear line. However as there wasn't any wolves there I didn't really want to leave my Bullgryns with the Mauls there so they just disembarked and joined the fight from the rear, didn't dare risk grav chute insertion on them! After the drop the Valkyrie dropped into hover mode and just spent the game pounding the enemy. It didn't really do a lot else and functioned as 2 slightly more powerful mortars so probably wasn't as point efficient as my Manticore or Hellhound was. Maybe I should have equipped it with 2 heavy bolters too but I had anticipated flying around a bit more but there wasn't really a need once his devastators had been destroyed, even then I wouldn't have minded as my Leman Russes were doing the main damage.

[Tirak]

My advice is to run the Valkyrie as cheap as possible aside from the Rocket Pods, which are worth their 2 extra points. The main reason for the Valkyrie is to drop troops, if you find yourself not doing that, then it's better to swap the aircraft out entirely, but the additional angle it can jump on things can work after you've performed its main job. Keeping it cheap and cheerful is better than loading it down with options as the amount of additional firepower you'll get isn't nearly as good as if you brought a tank.

[Wassa]

No I actually had the bullgryns all equipped with the 2+ armour save shields. I should have equipped one with an invulnerable shield but I forgot.

 

 

After the Valkyrie has dropped it's troops it's pretty much just hanging around unless you want to go spend 2 turns picking up and dropping off some more troops which in a 4-5 turn game isn't really worth it.

 

 

Also I learnt a valuable lesson, don't deploy your artilleryvehicles first as it allows the enemy to line up their devastator squads appropriately! Luckily the Manticore only took 6 wounds from 3 lascannons before I was able to take them out.

[duz_]

I usually deploy my basilisks relatively early

 

Usually both you and your opponent know where they're going to be placed

in the furthest corner of the board behind the largest piece of terrain you can find

 

That way I can place other items more strategically later on, such as troops and Leman Russes :) 

 

The heavy bolters I find are a nice to have not need to have

At 20pts, there's usually something else I can find a better investment for though

[Kinstryfe]

Tips I've learned that may help, though it sounds like you've got it under control:

 

You'll probably have more drops than your opponent. Use that to plan your deployments to make them commit their big stuff before you do. It can be infuriating. Commissars can be a fun use of 48pts to extend by 3 drops and force some commitments from your opponent.

 

Don't forget to go to ground often, the save helps.

 

Catachan S4 is surprisingly useful against most armies except Death Guard. Going from wounding on 4s to 3s or 5s to 4s means that you can sometimes play surprisingly aggressively and the enemy won't expect it. It's also often great fun.

 

Consider procuring another Hellhound. One is fun. Two is funner :-D

[Frater Cornelius]

What about defensive strategies? For example, having your tanks surviving a deep striking set of Ynnari Reapers shooting twice, Imperial Knights going first, Custodes Jetbikes mowing down bubble wrap or just flying over it, 3-5 Alaitor Crimson Hunters? Those really give me a headache, because they can pick out our tanks or other elements of big fire power and cripple our offensive punch. IG rarely goes first, but taking the hit is becoming increasingly hard.

[NatBrannigan]

Against those options there is plenty you can do.

 

Fake a heart attack to delay the game and play for a draw? Try and get the opponent blackout drunk?

 

Those are just filthy options (Not so much the Knights or Custodes, I quite enjoy playing against them) and there's not much you can realistically do to stop Eldar taking out a few key elements quickly (then surviving the return fire easily because... Eldar). The trick is to have so many dangerous things in your army that losing 2 or 3 on the first turn still means you can fight back. Guard can do this and still have enough Infantry to go and claim those all important objectives.

 

I can't imagine the Knight player is going to win many games when restricted to the Knight codex only in honesty, blowing up your tanks won't help when he has 5 models to contest objectives with. I've won a game with 2 guys left alive before, it's all about the objectives!

[duz_]

Other than deploying appropriately the best defence guard has is redundancy in numbers

Take more! :D

 

My current tournament list is essentially 2 identical 1000pt lists (there are some minor variances between the two). So if my opponent takes one element out I still have another.

If they take both out I have another threat they've ignored :)

[Thorakitai]

Other than deploying appropriately the best defence guard has is redundancy in numbers

Take more! :D

 

My current tournament list is essentially 2 identical 1000pt lists (there are some minor variances between the two). So if my opponent takes one element out I still have another.

If they take both out I have another threat they've ignored :)

I saw this piece of advice for guard some time ago, I forget where. Always have three ways to deal with any threat, because one will fail and one will be dead.