What could Chapter Approved do?

[wildweasel]

 

It's mostly the stacking of Stratagems that makes him so strong tho. Without those he's just a generic Captain. So the points aren't the problem. Fix the AM CP battery abuse and he's fine.

 

 

Yup, Slamgunius works because he's having 2-5 CP pumped into him at a go, plus a relic. I'd say that focusing those resources for a burst of very high effectiveness is intentional in the context of a resource economy where doing so is a third to half - or more - of the resource in question. When can do that once, maybe twice if you are willing to risk going empty on CP for any other uses, that's fine. Being able to do it 3 or 4 times, while also rotating ion shields, character sniping with shieldbreakers (now THERE is a terrible rule) and never having to worry about doing so? Yeah, that's the issue, and nerfing Slamguinius (and his brothers in other Chapters) without addressing the CP generation issue just means some other highly effective CP sink will be used instead.

[Beams]

 

 

 

It's mostly the stacking of Stratagems that makes him so strong tho. Without those he's just a generic Captain. So the points aren't the problem. Fix the AM CP battery abuse and he's fine.

 

Yup, Slamgunius works because he's having 2-5 CP pumped into him at a go, plus a relic. I'd say that focusing those resources for a burst of very high effectiveness is intentional in the context of a resource economy where doing so is a third to half - or more - of the resource in question. When can do that once, maybe twice if you are willing to risk going empty on CP for any other uses, that's fine. Being able to do it 3 or 4 times, while also rotating ion shields, character sniping with shieldbreakers (now THERE is a terrible rule) and never having to worry about doing so? Yeah, that's the issue, and nerfing Slamguinius (and his brothers in other Chapters) without addressing the CP generation issue just means some other highly effective CP sink will be used instead.

Regardless, deepstriking super-characters don't feel fun for me to play against, leaning into negative play experiences.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

It's mostly the stacking of Stratagems that makes him so strong tho. Without those he's just a generic Captain. So the points aren't the problem. Fix the AM CP battery abuse and he's fine.

Yup, Slamgunius works because he's having 2-5 CP pumped into him at a go, plus a relic. I'd say that focusing those resources for a burst of very high effectiveness is intentional in the context of a resource economy where doing so is a third to half - or more - of the resource in question. When can do that once, maybe twice if you are willing to risk going empty on CP for any other uses, that's fine. Being able to do it 3 or 4 times, while also rotating ion shields, character sniping with shieldbreakers (now THERE is a terrible rule) and never having to worry about doing so? Yeah, that's the issue, and nerfing Slamguinius (and his brothers in other Chapters) without addressing the CP generation issue just means some other highly effective CP sink will be used instead.

Regardless, deepstriking super-characters don't feel fun for me to play against, leaning into negative play experiences.

 

 

Well good thing then that I've seen most Blood Angels Captains being deployed regularly on the Nova Open streams. ;)

[toaae]

Regardless, deepstriking super-characters don't feel fun for me to play against, leaning into negative play experiences.

 

It's the only thing in the codex that is actually effective, and nerfing it would be a large blow to Blood Angels. The problem isn't captains in pure or mostly BA lists, it's in lists that have loads of CP where they aren't even the most important piece.

 

If you're interested in further discussion, we have a thread in the BA sub-forum about the captain.

[Trevak Dal]

What if your army has no good screening units? So now a Deathwatch player MUST take Astra Miliatrum allies?

 

We're not talking about weapon effectiveness - all armies have gear to deal with different target types. We're talking about being forced to adopt a unit type and strategy across every army on every gaming table. That's what happened prior to the FAQ. Players will abuse any system if given the opportunity to.

Maybe a viable solution is a new universal strategem that allows you to deepstrike a deployed unit for x command points? My terminators are shuffling around trying to reload their storm bolters with their power fists, and I can teleport them to another location.

[BolterZorro]

- make secondary units usable/usefull again (point drop?): exemple: tanks for SM, dread in general (massive drop for redemptor?), crisis suit (a bit of drop point) , aggressors (ptss down) etc... same goes for all armies (more for weak ones, less for top tier: example: dread/walkers eldars, eldar titans, stormsurge, chaos LoW...)

 

- delete this non sensical CP generators, get rid of the loyal 32. Whatever the solution is.

[Trevak Dal]

If crisis guns got a range/rate of fire increase, they got jump shoot jump pack (jetpack is a keyword), or they got bs3+ along with broadsides, stealths and all other suits they would be fairly priced.

 

Throw back in the darkness/shrouding ignoring option they had in 7th (we owned the night! It was like future warfare against WWI armies that usually went like those cutscenes from that Anime Gate went.)

[Kallas]

jump shoot jump pack (jetpack is a keyword),

God-Emperor, please no. JSJ was super dumb from a balance point of view. Tau has access to it in a Relic and a Sept specific stratagem and that's enough.

 

or they got bs3+ along with broadsides, stealths and all other suits they would be fairly priced.

This, however, I do agree with. Regular/Bodyguard Crisis Suits and Broadsides do need some love. BS3+, considering their costs, wouldn't be over the top. They're an iconic Tau unit and should really get a buff to see some table time.

 

Not sure Stealth suits need it, I think they'd be fine with a small price reduction (or possibly a slightly larger reduction and removing the silliness of them applying the negative to hit in the Fight Phase).

[Raven1]

What i would like to see is this Space Marines of all kinds adjusted and more points efficient/better. A points reduction or something. Putting and end to astra militarum CP batteries. Toning down allies maybe having to pick a main faction and then only a certain percentage of total points/ power level can come from one other codex. To include armies from one codex just different factions (excepting demons or dark eldar that are basically meant to mix within the codex). Everything else is just changes i want to see with TS.

[Panzer]

If crisis guns got a range/rate of fire increase, they got jump shoot jump pack (jetpack is a keyword), or they got bs3+ along with broadsides, stealths and all other suits they would be fairly priced.

 

Throw back in the darkness/shrouding ignoring option they had in 7th (we owned the night! It was like future warfare against WWI armies that usually went like those cutscenes from that Anime Gate went.)

 

Honestly BS3+ alone would already be enough. FSE Crisis on the drop do a perfectly fine amount of damage for their points with the +1 to hit Stratagem. If any Crisis could do that they'd be fine and FSE Crisis would be awesome. I doubt that's going to happen tho or they'd probably have to up most Battlesuits BS to 3+ for it to not look weird (Crisis are great because of their versatility, not because they are supposed to be better marksmen than Broadsides, Riptides, Ghostkeels, etc). ^^

[BolterZorro]

they won't change any unit sheet. I think tthat we only get points adjustments, maybe stratagem adjustment and rules (especially CP management).

What is the expected date for FAQ/Chapter approuved? (based on previous ones?)

[Ishagu]

CA should be December apparently. I was hoping it was sooner.

 

FAQ will be in the coming weeks.

 

I can't wait to see what boosts Marines get. I'll settle for point reductions that allow me to take extra units but Strat and chapter tactics modification would be great.

[Doghouse]

I'd be happy to see decent vehicle rules.

[BolterZorro]

vehicle and dread need definitly a boost in SM especially for the primaris. I though that the CA was intended for this month with the faq before on this month' end

[duz_]

I would rather not see a point reduction for marines

They should be a moderately elite army not a horde army like double battle company 7th.

 

Id rather see their strategems, durability and damage output improved.

Eg

All marines (including chaos and GKs) get +1 A and W (the full range of superhuman equivalents including primaris)

All bolt weapons are Ap-1 (HB wouldn't change nor primaris weapons)

All non carapace armour (ie scouts) ignore Ap -1

Possibly exploding 6s on hit rolls

 

This way their points could stay the same

 

Right now a tactical marine is 13pts and a Scion is 10... so there can't be that much room to reduce points unless they look across all books to balance the MEQ pseudo standard

[Tyriks]

Those rules would make Rubricae insane.

[Ishagu]

I would rather not see a point reduction for marines

They should be a moderately elite army not a horde army like double battle company 7th.

 

Id rather see their strategems, durability and damage output improved.

Eg

All marines (including chaos and GKs) get +1 A and W (the full range of superhuman equivalents including primaris)

All bolt weapons are Ap-1 (HB wouldn't change nor primaris weapons)

All non carapace armour (ie scouts) ignore Ap -1

Possibly exploding 6s on hit rolls

 

This way their points could stay the same

 

Right now a tactical marine is 13pts and a Scion is 10... so there can't be that much room to reduce points unless they look across all books to balance the MEQ pseudo standard

Stop worrying about other faction troops.

It's funny you mention Scions - they are far superior to Marines. Free reserve deepstrike and more offensive firepower.

 

Marines categorically need a point reduction.

[Prot]

Personally I believe some base mechanisms in unit rules desperately need change. The problem is the ripple effect. As we know, change a "Terminator" rule for Space Marines raises issues/questions for those same/similar units for: DG, TS, Chaos, Custodes, etc.

 

So it's always far easier to drop points.

 

But some basic premises don't seem to be working and the further we get away from the index, the more disparity we see in these units/rules.

 

For example when the index came out, we actually saw Land Raiders. What a glorious 5 minutes of 40K that was!

 

The 'creep' of rules and codexes has empowered cheap infantry far too much. Strategems exacerbate this. The idea of a horde of bathrobe screaming cultists being unbreakable, "veterans" that can take down an elite squad of superhumans is not only ridiculous, it's extremely plausible on the table top.

 

Not only that, they will recycle next turn.

 

So why would you take a 220 point dreadnought that gets worse if he walks, declines with damage, and can be taken down by such a unit?

 

We are back to a state where you don't see Terminators, Landraiders, Dreadnoughts (codex style, without deep strike), space marines... the very things that probably drew most of us into 40K. 

 

That's going to take a lot more than point changes to fix. I still love 40K for sure, but how it looks (competitively) is a bizarre entity that hardly resembles the opening minutes of 8th edition.

[Are Verlo]

If killshot/linebreaker bombardement was changed to:

Choose one predator/ vindicator, this unit and any predator/vindicator may -insert stratagem.

 

Linbreaker bombardement might need to be reworked to have it’s damage or « to hit roll» scale with the number of tanks shooting. A single vindicator doing damage as the current stratagem might be a little too good.

 

But I think killshot would work perfectly with 1, 2 or 3 predators.

[Are Verlo]

Edit to my post above:

For some reason I get redirected when I try to Edit the post

 

I meant to add: this tank and any vindi/pred within 6” may -insert killshot or linebreaker bombardement.

[Ishagu]

I don't care for any unit specific strategems.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I listened to the FLG podcast yesterday _ Reecius stated the faq will release very soon and also mentioned SM need some help (hint hint).

[USNCenturion]

The whole issue I see with the game in general and marines in particular is that some armies are still playing the rock paper scissor type edition where you take units that have a strength and weakness to everything else in the game. The introduction of new units and mechanics the last few years means that a marine army is playing a rock paper scissor game against an Eldar player who has a sledgehammer and hits the marine player’s hand when he throws rock.

 

The Iron Hands Chapter Tactic is fluffy and cute, but it’s all honestly utter garbage when a unit or army can zip around the battlefield at 20” and hit the enemy across the board with multiple high strength, super accurate rerollable shots.

[Morticon]

The whole issue I see with the game in general and marines in particular is that some armies are still playing the rock paper scissor type edition where you take units that have a strength and weakness to everything else in the game. The introduction of new units and mechanics the last few years means that a marine army is playing a rock paper scissor game against an Eldar player who has a sledgehammer and hits the marine player’s hand when he throws rock.

 

The Iron Hands Chapter Tactic is fluffy and cute, but it’s all honestly utter garbage when a unit or army can zip around the battlefield at 20” and hit the enemy across the board with multiple high strength, super accurate rerollable shots.

Well said, mate. 

 

 

To be honest, out of all the pages and pages of "fixes" i've read, the one that stands out as the simplest, and most effective is the Frater (apologies I cant remember who) who had suggested  that all AP and damage results are reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1 for all Space Marines. It's absolutely perfect. Makes power armour mean something.  Makes marines something - and with the rate of fire, firepower and AP mods around, it absolutely will not break the game. 

 

 

[duz_]

This is probably straying too far down the SM track based on the OP. So we should probably head back to when is the FAQ dropping?

Monday, Sunday or the 43rd of the Month? ;)

 

Ps. Having SMs have a +1 AP mechanic essentially gives them all an invul save which is too much