What could Chapter Approved do?

[Slasher956]

I was thinking they should just re-write Authority of the Inquistion & the Ordos rules.... or rather add these bits:

 

Ordos Heriticas - add the Ministroum faction keyword

Ordos Xenos - add the DeathWatch faction Keyword

Ordos Mallaus - add the Grey Knight faction keyword

Specialist - add one other imperial faction keyword

 

Authority of the Inquistion - Hidden Warlord, if a Inquistior is chosen in the army list they may take over as the army warlord if the original one is killed.  If they do they count as being the warlord for all purposes including objectives such as slay the warlord.

[autek mor]

Personally I believe some base mechanisms in unit rules desperately need change. The problem is the ripple effect. As we know, change a "Terminator" rule for Space Marines raises issues/questions for those same/similar units for: DG, TS, Chaos, Custodes, etc.

 

So it's always far easier to drop points.

 

But some basic premises don't seem to be working and the further we get away from the index, the more disparity we see in these units/rules.

 

For example when the index came out, we actually saw Land Raiders. What a glorious 5 minutes of 40K that was!

 

The 'creep' of rules and codexes has empowered cheap infantry far too much. Strategems exacerbate this. The idea of a horde of bathrobe screaming cultists being unbreakable, "veterans" that can take down an elite squad of superhumans is not only ridiculous, it's extremely plausible on the table top.

 

Not only that, they will recycle next turn.

 

So why would you take a 220 point dreadnought that gets worse if he walks, declines with damage, and can be taken down by such a unit?

 

We are back to a state where you don't see Terminators, Landraiders, Dreadnoughts (codex style, without deep strike), space marines... the very things that probably drew most of us into 40K. 

 

That's going to take a lot more than point changes to fix. I still love 40K for sure, but how it looks (competitively) is a bizarre entity that hardly resembles the opening minutes of 8th edition.

 

brilliant post. we know that GW can write fun, fluffy and effective books when they put their minds to it like they did with the deathguard codex. personally i think they should take allies back to days where you could only take a few allied units max unless you are playing apocalypse games.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here’s to hoping for the best... fingers crossed. :)

[sairence]

After seeing some of the Ork previews and the Knight rules previously...I hope they turn all "on a roll of a 1" and "on a roll of a 6" effects into "on an unmodified roll of a..."

 

Be that Plasma overcharge, strategems or army abilities.

[Slasher956]

After seeing some of the Ork previews and the Knight rules previously...I hope they turn all "on a roll of a 1" and "on a roll of a 6" effects into "on an unmodified roll of a..."

 

Be that Plasma overcharge, strategems or army abilities.

 

not all rolls.... i think things like sniper rifles 6+ to get a mortal wound should stay as modifiable...... 

[Panzer]

I also don't think Plasma overheating more likely with more to-hit penalties is that much a problem. Plasma is one of the strongest weapon options in the game currently anyway.

[Closet Skeleton]

Personally I believe some base mechanisms in unit rules desperately need change. The problem is the ripple effect. As we know, change a "Terminator" rule for Space Marines raises issues/questions for those same/similar units for: DG, TS, Chaos, Custodes, etc.

 

So it's always far easier to drop points.

 

Terminators are a bad example, I find the Death Guard ones 'okay' but don't really see how a blanket buff to them all would make anything over-powered. Then they could easily just buff only indomitus terminators and leave Custodes, TS and DG alone.

[Kallas]

I also don't think Plasma overheating more likely with more to-hit penalties is that much a problem. Plasma is one of the strongest weapon options in the game currently anyway.

Plasma is too ubiquitous, I think making the change to unmodified rolls alongside a change to Plasma (likely just a cost increase, not sure what else would do it; maybe S6/7 instead of S7/8?) would be good.

[Ishagu]

No. Plasma is fine. Why on God's name would you want to make it weaker in a game where Toughness 8 units are currently dominating already!?

 

I think traditional Astartes are impossible to fix beyond point adjustments because the units are shared across too many books with different rules bolted on.

[Tyriks]

After seeing some of the Ork previews and the Knight rules previously...I hope they turn all "on a roll of a 1" and "on a roll of a 6" effects into "on an unmodified roll of a..."

Be that Plasma overcharge, strategems or army abilities.

Blanket changes like that are what upset people in the FAQs so I hope they don't do that. If a specific unit is a problem, fix that unit.

[Ishagu]

That kind of rule suits Orks and their ram-shackled stuff. It shouldn't apply to all armies.

[Beams]

Plasma should explode on an unmodified 1. It's relatively easy it is to get plasma to reroll or +1 to hit so it doesn't explode. If you want to overcharge, it should be a risk.

[Kallas]

No. Plasma is fine. Why on God's name would you want to make it weaker in a game where Toughness 8 units are currently dominating already!?

 

I think traditional Astartes are impossible to fix beyond point adjustments because the units are shared across too many books with different rules bolted on.

Plasma isn't fine, or at least it isn't fine in comparison to all of the other various special weapons: Plasma is simply the best option 90% of the time. Meltaguns are far too expensive and not actually particularly good; Flamers are trash; Grav-guns are bad and inexplicably more expensive than Plasma; IG Grenade Launchers are actually ok; some unique special weapons like DG Blight Launchers are good; but on the whole if you can take Plasma, you do.

 

That's not a good state for the game, and it's one of the reasons the Primaris you love so much are so maligned. It might be as simple as making the other weapons balanced around Plasma (eg, Meltagun about 13pts; Grav-Gun about 11pts; Flamer about 5pts, etc); it might be that Plasma needs to go up. The comment about changing strength was off-the-cuff and not really thought through, but at the same time a S nerf would make Plasma much less ubiquitous (which might be needed).

[Slasher956]

Plasma should explode on an unmodified 1. It's relatively easy it is to get plasma to reroll or +1 to hit so it doesn't explode. If you want to overcharge, it should be a risk.

i'd say thats covered* by the core rules that say a 1 is always a failure... so basically a 1 cant be modified so will always explode a plasma weapon

 

 

A roll of 1 always fails, irrespective of any modifiers that may apply

 

or they should just erratta page 181 from what i've quoted to "A roll of 1 cant be modified"

 

 

*edit - yes I know it doesnt say anything other than a 1 fails so RAW a one to hit fails then you add the modifier to get a 2 which even on a 2+ to hit model still fails but doesnt fry the firer....

[Ishagu]

Plasma is fine. The others guns need a boost

[Ratherdashing]

Flamer doing 2d6 hits vs 10+ models and melta doing 2d6 damage within half range (instead of 2d6 and pick highest) wouldn't go amiss with me. That would seem to bring them up to plasma's level and allow the change to only explode on a natural 1. (IMO, anything that triggers on a 1 or 6 should only be on naturals).

[Ishagu]

You happy with a 17 point gun being able to destroy a Leman Russ or Predator in one shot?

 

This is exactly the problem that ruined vehicles in 7th

[Beams]

Meltas are really good for some units - Imperial Guard dropped off by valkeries or Sisters of Battle Dominions - because they have significant drawbacks.

 

Meltas don't need serious reworking. They just shouldn't cost 17 pts, and a multimelta shouldn't be 27, when a lascannon is 20.

[Slasher956]

You happy with a 17 point gun being able to destroy a Leman Russ or Predator in one shot?

 

This is exactly the problem that ruined vehicles in 7th

 

How about a 9 point pistol on a 12" move girl......who could move 24" without issue (Sister of Battle Serephim Sister Superior with an Inferno pistol moving under AoF then getting her actual move... 2D6 damage threat range being 27")..... and then you add 2 more sisters with 2 Inferno pistols each .... so my 100 point unit of 5 jump troops has just destroyed 3 Preds in one go.....

 

As much as I'd love it.... its a tad broken

[Tyriks]

I could maybe see Melta doing flat 6 damage in half range, but I think 2d6 is probably too much with how many units can take it.

 

I think other special guns need help, though. Plasma is so versatile that it's hard to pick anything else over it. I think cost reductions should be fine for Imperial stuff.

[Slasher956]

To be fair, joking / snark a side, I think if in half range then 2D3 instead of D6 damage as it gives you a higher lower end of damage (2 min with 4 on average rolls) but the same max damage

[Ishagu]

2D3 works. That's a nice idea.

 

The rules could be changed for all Meltas to be 2D3 damage, re roll to wound at half range.

[duz_]

They just need to get rid of the half range stipulation on melta imho

[Ishagu]

I have no issue with that. It's a nice unique hook to the weapon.

[Kallas]

It harks back to how Meltas have worked in previous editions of the game (without being exactly the same), but yeah, Meltaguns needs to be better for their cost, or massively cheaper. As it stands a Meltagun is worth about 12-14pts depending on the platform, and a Multi-Melta is far from worth 27: more likely about 18-20.

 

Honestly, I'd prefer that they got buffed, rather than got a price drop, but GW's much more likely to drop costs.