What could Chapter Approved do?

[Closet Skeleton]

 

Marine guns costing less won't make them glass cannons.

 

Marines already have glass cannon units like combi-weapon Sternguard, cheap marine guns would make them actually fieldable.

 

Right now marines are just glass against a high firepower army, making their guns cheap enough that marines can compete with guard or eldar would just encourage more anti-marine firepower and could just lead to a stupid arms race.

[Tyriks]

Or, making marines competent enough to actually bring would make some of those problematic armies less popular.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Full Melta guns (not an pistol variety) should go up in strength at half range too. S9 at half range so you’re wounding vehicles on a 3+. Then 2D3 damage at half range too.

I want S12 and 2d6 dmg plus 18” range.

[Schlitzaf]

Honestly; I’d to meltaguns go to 11 and Grav go to 10. The main thing I’m gonna say is that Grav compared to Plasma;

 

Against heavy armor, static 1d3 damage. Without risking self murdering. However their effective is far less (9” vs 12” i.e can be Rapid off Deep Striking). The difference is that you can Rapid Plasma reasonably turn 2, Grav will be turn 3. Given the difference.

 

Meltaguns are comparable to Lascannons for Assault Armies. Except the following; Assault Armjes need bodies. Compared to Flamers they cost an additional body. Worse Meltaguns and assault units have target confusion. Generally assault infantry wants to hit infantry hits not tanks. But Melta wants to hit tanks.

 

Flamers v Stormbolters are similar here. Being the equivalent but Melee v Shooting. Hear what I do. Reduce the cost of all current Assault&PowWeapons by half for non-characters. Also I bring back Salvo for GravGuns specifically. You can choose to have a weapon be Assault or Heavy when firing. (GravGun be Salvo 2/3). Also make the Salvo be Assault/Heavy+1. To avoid past issues of Salvo.

 

Now why reduce the cost of Assault/PowWeapon? Well the range is first thing. Why am I paying for something like a Lascannon with Quarter Range? This would also help make Melee units in general more affordable. Suddenly Power Weapons only cost 2-6 points. Power Fists and other options become a lot more more viable overall.

 

Secondly for all that is holy, I’d make Power Fist static 2 damage. But not I am getting too wishlists.

[Ratherdashing]

To me this goes into a broader issue of game design. Everyone recommends points changes as the catch all fix, which might balance things but it won't make choices interesting. If two weapons do the same thing but one does it better for more points, than in any circumstance, either the cheaper one or the better one will be better. It's much better for two weapons to do different things. Flamers and former large blast templates should do more vs bigger units because otherwise they fill the same niche as bolters and plasma guns and everything else.

 

That's why I think melta should be allowed to be devastating. Because that has been its niche and what made it different from a short range lascannon. Melta has usually been a risky, all or nothing play that caused a big swing. And I feel like in the name of balance many players want there to be no swingyness at all: everything must be totally granular.

 

I'm the first person to speak against alpha strikes and one hit KOs. But that doesn't mean we should get rid of (or keep out, in this case) any possibility of dramatic moments. I may be in the minority but I really think some swingyness is important to keep the game interesting, and outlawing it is essentially removing a type or weapon effect from the game and inching us towards all weapons being the same except for points cost and general power.

[Ficinus]

Flamers are still good, but they certainly aren't what they used to be. I think the clear solution is: bring back templates. I want my heavy flamer retributors to be able to drop five templates on some dang cultists. Or they could just make them more reliable (D6 hits, 2D3 hits against 5-9 model squads, 2D6 against 10+ model squads or D3, 2D3, 3D3 for the same sizes).

[Kallas]

Flamers are still good, but they certainly aren't what they used to be. I think the clear solution is: bring back templates. I want my heavy flamer retributors to be able to drop five templates on some dang cultists. Or they could just make them more reliable (D6 hits, 2D3 hits against 5-9 model squads, 2D6 against 10+ model squads or D3, 2D3, 3D3 for the same sizes).

They are? On what platform?

 

IG Flamer Command Squads can be ok, because they're compact and quite cheap; on Space Marines they're hella expensive and basically do nothing that the Bolter can't do, except at much shorter range.

 

As you mention, I feel like a lot of the previous template weapons need at least some kind of scaling, or to be ridiculously cheap. As they are, Flamers (particularly for Marines) are crap.

[Beams]

Flamers are great on sisters of battle Dominions, retributors, battle sisters and Repressors...

 

 

Also, Flamers are great on overwatch -- No one's charging you if you have 4 heavy flamers, 1 Combi flamer and 4 Bolters. Or a lot least, no one is surviving that charge.

 

Meltas are devastating -- there's a 30% chance you do 6 wounds, and they do an average of 4.5 damage per wound -- they only really lack range and reliablity, since there's still a 1 in 12 chance they do 2 or less damage. Which is fine, meltas should be high risk high reward, so to make them juicier, I'd say make them higher Str or cheaper.

[Ficinus]

I find having two squads of Sisters with 2 heavy flamers, 2 flamers, and 2 combi-flamers jump out of a rhino to be pretty effective. But that's compact and relatively cheap.

[Aothaine]

 

They are? On what platform?

 

T'au Suits can use 3-4 flamers and are fairly decent since you get like 5 units with 3-4 flamers each. 

[Ishagu]

Tau crisis suits with flamers are excellent

[Panzer]

Flamers are good on units that can take multiple of them. Ideally a unit with some form of mobility. A single flamer in a unit won't do much if anything at all in most games because you don't want the rest of the unit in flamer range.

[point_Zer0]

Any rumors yet about space marines in CA?

[Montford]

Flamers became garbage when they could only overwatch up to their range. They’re serviceable on fast or relentless type platforms but the regular flamer on a grunt is outperformed by nearly every other option.

 

As an Adepta Soroitas player I cannot agree with you. I have a limited armory and so I commonly field flamers. In regards to overwatch most charges I've faced seem to  begin at 8" or less unless my opponent likes gambling, so I have found flamers to be well worth taking.

 

As for CA 2018 I eagerly await it! I've been very successful with an Index army, and am very much looking forward to seeing what I can do with a Codex one.

[Ishagu]

Man I'm excited for you. I hope Sisters are great, I'm intending to collect them. Already have Celestine, the twins and a canonness painted up

[Ishagu]

Any rumors yet about space marines in CA?

Yes actually. Play-tester have outright stated that Marines and Grey Knights will receive a substantial boost in Chapter Approved. Competitive players like Geoff Robinson are saying the changes are significant and positive for Astartes.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

What I want for Space Marines is flamer meltas that have shred and 12” range plus like I said S12 and 2d6 dmg minimum 6. And no I wouldn’t spam it either. I think it would be really super cool and shake up the stagnant meta.

[Closet Skeleton]

What I want for Space Marines is flamer meltas that have shred and 12” range plus like I said S12 and 2d6 dmg minimum 6. And no I wouldn’t spam it either. I think it would be really super cool and shake up the stagnant meta.

 

Tanks spam is good but it isn't the meta. Horde spam and knights are the meta, with the odd eldar army thrown in because those are still good but most competitive players are bored of them.

 

We had a 'melta makes vehicles vanish' meta for 20 years I think tank players deserve more than a year and a half before status quo is restored.

[MARK0SIAN]

 

Any rumors yet about space marines in CA?

Yes actually. Play-tester have outright stated that Marines and Grey Knights will receive a substantial boost in Chapter Approved. Competitive players like Geoff Robinson are saying the changes are significant and positive for Astartes.

Do you know if he means a boost as in points drops or actual rules/stats changes?

[Ishagu]

Intentionally vague, unfortunately

[Panzer]

I honestly don't expect any major rules changes. The way I see it the big FAQ/Errata is used for rules changes and the CA is used for points changes and giving additional stuff on top of what already exists.

[point_Zer0]

I honestly don't expect any major rules changes. The way I see it the big FAQ/Errata is used for rules changes and the CA is used for points changes and giving additional stuff on top of what already exists.

On the other side - you'll have beta rules for sisters. Also you had lot's of rules in previous CA (all those fractions without codexes, new game modes etc. ). So everything's possible, though I too do not have my hopes too high.

[Panzer]

 

I honestly don't expect any major rules changes. The way I see it the big FAQ/Errata is used for rules changes and the CA is used for points changes and giving additional stuff on top of what already exists.

On the other side - you'll have beta rules for sisters. Also you had lot's of rules in previous CA (all those fractions without codexes, new game modes etc. ). So everything's possible, though I too do not have my hopes too high.

 

 

Which are, as I said, additional stuff. Not changes. ;)

[Ishagu]

The last Chapter Approved wasn't really necessary. Most armies didn't have a codex.

 

This one could be a lot more substantial.

[Lexington]

I honestly don't expect any major rules changes. The way I see it the big FAQ/Errata is used for rules changes and the CA is used for points changes and giving additional stuff on top of what already exists.

IIRC, they said at the NOVA seminar that the terrain rules would be getting a huge overhaul in CA, so it’s not impossible...