Unit of the Week: Redemptor Dreadnought

[Jolemai]

Welcome to the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the unique units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield.

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Redemptor Dreadnought

Redemptor Dreadnought, Anamnesis

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a Redemptor Dreadnought?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
• Will you be running multiples?
• What weapon choices are you selecting? Is this choice being influenced by other factors (meta, multiples, etc)?
• Are you buffing this unit? If so, how?
• Stratagems?

Over to you

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.

[neonmole]

I actually played a game with 2 redemptors yesterday. Like most units people consider “bad”, they are actually quite a bit better than people expect.

 

Yes they are not as efficient as other choices, but that doesn’t mean in the right army they don’t have a role. With the onslaught loadout (by far superior) they provide a pretty nice response to hordes and screens, and once they do get in your face, they are really quite devestating, wounding even a knight on 2s.

 

Where they really suffer is against army wide -1 penalties (alaitoc etc) as this really neuters thier shooting seeing as they have a -1 for moving and shooting too.

 

That said, I was playing against Stygies Ad Mech (who have a global -1) and I won that game, so hey ho!

[Panzer]

Yes they are not as efficient as other choices, but that doesn’t mean in the right army they don’t have a role. With the onslaught loadout (by far superior) they provide a pretty nice response to hordes and screens, and once they do get in your face, they are really quite devestating, wounding even a knight on 2s.

 

I guess that's true if you already got plenty of Plasma via Inceptors and/or Hellblaster. However if you don't have those I think the Plasma Redemptor is the better choice since literally everything else in a Primaris list can deal well enough with basic infantry already.

 

Whenever I think that I'd love to get my hands on a Redemptor I always immediately think about how much more useful a Repulsor would be for my army. I'll be definitely getting one sooner or later but I don't think it's a top choice. Even less in a list that takes non-Primaris units as well.

 

Next up: how to use them.

Basically imo you don't want to move the Redemptor due lack of power of the machine spirit and having only heavy weapons at BS3+. That's quite annoying because you always pay for the melee weapon anyway. This is quite problematic for Blood Angels since we usually want to bring the fight to the enemy. I guess you can use him to babysit some midfield objective, but make sure he's not too far behind since his range is not THAT great.

[neonmole]

I have to strongly disagree with the plasma being better in any scenario than the onslaught.

 

It comes down to what you highlighted, that you always want to be moving with this guy (blood angels or otherwise) as a huge part of his value is in his melee capabilities.

 

With that in mind, the plasma is just awful, both because it then overheats on a 1 or 2, and because having a random number of shots, plus hitting on 4s makes him wildly unreliable. When you are assumed to be hitting on 4s (at best) volume of shots, (and not mortal wounding yourself..) is just night and day better.

 

If you take him with plasma, and stand him still to actually use it. 3-4 plasma shots on avg. is just about as bad a use of 200pts as you can find in the game.

 

TLDR. This guy needs to get in your opponents grill to have any chance of having value. With that in mind onslaught is way better.

[Panzer]

I didn't say that you always want to be moving with the Redemptor. The opposite in fact. I said you basically never want to be moving with him or else you'd be shooting a lot worse than you already do.

It doesn't really want to be stationary and it doesn't really want to move around a whole lot. It's overall just not a well designed unit but I do think it's a better shooty unit than a melee unit so I'd rather stand and shoot than move around.

 

It's not just 3-4 Plasma shots for 200p. If you go melee you could say the same since 4 S14 AP-3 D1d6 attacks hitting on 3+ aren't worth 200p either.. However it's also the two Storm bolter and the Onslaught gatling cannon secondary on his melee arm. He also still has T7 W13 Sv3+ you're paying with those points.

Last but not least just because you don't move around much it doesn't mean you won't ever see melee. If you position him properly you will pretty much always have the chance to charge the enemy eventually unless it gets blown up early.

 

I also judged the loadout based on what else you have in your list and not just in a vacuum. Hence why I said you're right when you already have enough Plasma in your list.

[CaptainHelion]

I'm a big fan of the Redemptor, honestly. Big Blue has done some serious heavy lifting in the games I've played with him. 13 Wounds is a pretty hefty profile. I've got the Easy-Build Redemptor, so the Heavy Onslaught cannon, and a heavy flamer on the fist, but I don't think I'd want to run much different than that. 
The main problem the Redemptor has is a degrading statline, which is a bit painful. It'd hurt less if they started at 2+s like the Contemptor, but alas. Also the Redemptor Fist being d6D rather than 3D is a bit of a pain. Maybe if it were 2d3D? A d6 for damage is a little too swingy for my liking. Although, being able to deal 12 Damage to something like a Knight from two lucky hits is a Golden Time. 

In general, I recommend the Wisdom of the Ancients Strat for him, and to support him with something. What, I'm not entirely sure. 

[Majkhel]

Added a Redemptor picture to the appropriate thread. IS it posible that it's the first one? :D

[Karhedron]

What are people's thoughts on the Redemptor now that CA has dropped?

 

The dakka build has come down by more than 40 points and can now be had for as little as 155 points yet still provides 26 anti-infantry shots at 12" or 22 at 24".

 

Previously something toting a TLAC (Razorback, SR etc) would be my go-to infantry shredder but I think the Redemptor is now looking competitive for wounds and weight of fire. It also helps that Dreads benefit from Red Thirst although in practice it will be wounding most targets on a 2+ anyway.

[Paladin777]

I was looking at that last night and was also thinking that it was looking like some serious Dakka for the points. Similar Dakka to a Baal Pred for cheap with more wounds and isn’t useless in CC.

[Panzer]

I have yet to try it with the reduced points but I hope I get some games in soon. The one scheduled for last friday got canceled unfortunately.

[SanguiniusJr]

Would a redemptor work for babysitting a gunline from potential CC predators looking to tie up my fire support units while my assault is doing that in the enemy lines?

 

(I figure a standard dread could too with a cc arm and AC or LC for cheaper and minus the degrading statline.) Or is that a waste of its potential since it likely would want to advance into enemy lines with assault?

[Panzer]

Probably? I think he wastes a huge part of his potential you paid for when he doesn't at least tries to punch something in melee but if you expect your opponent to assault your firebase then that shouldn't be an issue after all.

[Riot Earp]

I played him after the drop of ca a couple of times and he always did alot of damage. Even against Custodes he manged to put some hurt in them. I walk him forward with some rerolls nearby or through the strat. Works also good along the Dakka Leviathan.

[Lemondish]

I played him after the drop of ca a couple of times and he always did alot of damage. Even against Custodes he manged to put some hurt in them. I walk him forward with some rerolls nearby or through the strat. Works also good along the Dakka Leviathan.

 

Bolter Discipline gives him guaranteed 8 storm bolter shots out to 24'' now alongside the 18 heavy bolter equivalent shots (if you're running double onslaught). Makes him a tad more capable while moving forward. 

[Xenith]

As an aside, I ran the numbers on storm bolters v fragstorm launchers a while ago and SB pretty much is always superior. Frags were better at 12 - 24", getting 7 shots, however not SB get 8 shots at 24" frags are pointless. 

[Karhedron]

Would a redemptor work for babysitting a gunline from potential CC predators looking to tie up my fire support units while my assault is doing that in the enemy lines?

 

(I figure a standard dread could too with a cc arm and AC or LC for cheaper and minus the degrading statline.) Or is that a waste of its potential since it likely would want to advance into enemy lines with assault?

It does waste his CC potential a bit but if the deterrant works you may decide it is justified. He can pop "Wisdom of the Ancients" to boost your gunline's shooting too (although any Dread can do that). He does degrade but the advantage of the Redemptor over smaller Dreads is that his "secondary weapon" (the underslung Onslaught Gatling Cannon) is a legitimate threat in its own right, being effectively and assault cannon with -1S.

 

If you look at other cheap sources of Dakka like the AC Razorback, the Redemptor does not look too shabby now. 155 points vs 114. It has roughly 50% more firepower than the RB although only slightly more durability. It trades the transport capacity for decent melee ability. I would say it is a solid choice for a gunline (if not an outstanding one).

[Charlo]

The issue with dreads have always been shooting VS combat and how to outfit them.

 

BA always traditionally had the answer to this under-slung Melta/ Flamers acting supplementary to BLOOD FISTS or the Frag Cannon being the Quintessential "WHATS UP BUDDY" weapon on the drop in previous editions (seriously, I killed whole squads of Wraith Guard before!) however the Redemptor represents something a little more balanced in newer editions and a good toolbox.

 

The sheer amount of guns, bolter update and price drops on this thing means it's a dakka boat first and a big fist second to ward off anything who dares get close - especially other vehicles with a nasty D6 damage.

 

Plant him in your firebase and use Wisdom strat if necessary, all the while popping off shots to the tune of 18 S5 AP1 & 8 S4 AP0.

 

Sadly, his optimum range is 24" and (for some stupid reason) Heavy weapons still have a BS penalty on Dreads, so you may need to spend a turn getting into position to leverage all 26 of those shots.