Dark Imperium II by Guy Haley

[caladancid]

 

last page of the book, following a battle against mortarion in which the emperor possibly intervened through an imperial saint, gulliman starts to read the lectito divinatus wuuuuut

Short memory old Rob has aye?

 

 

No he talks about where it comes from, how he feels about it, and even whether it makes him a bad person for what he did.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Okay so in spoiler freeish terms:

 

The largest portion of the book is the middle part which is a good old continten spanning nurgle vs ultramarines and pals slugfest plus some void war.

It's entertaining and well written so if thats your thing, cool, go get it. 

There is some interesting bits about the current state of primaris inbetween all that. No new units that I recognized though.

What the book does in its more worldbuilding focussed parts, largely at the beginning and end is confirm some fan theories.

So I'll give a brief summary and then post what I deemed important, all of the in the spoiler below. Do not read if you don't want to be spoilered okay?

 

Story:

Okay so we pick up after Dark Imperium 1. Frater Mathieu chills out aboard the Macraggaes hounour and starts writing his religously coloured account of the Plague War. It is established, that he is a really good guy who is fanatically devout and loves helping those in need. In it for the faith, not the glory.

We also meet one of Guillimans Historians, a female former Rogue trader who was almost burned for her atheist ways. She teases Mathieu a bit, and buggers up to talkt to Guiliman. They are like really chummy and chat about the heresy and stuff. she gives him a mysterious stastis box. Guiliman looks inside the box, looks at the camera and there is dramatic music. He sends her off with a message to dante.

Guiliman and his army must got to a Planet in Ultramar where Mortarion is currently attacking. So they go there. They also order a starfort full of novamarines there. Onboard the starfort there is a Sergeant called Justinian who is a primaris and cant really seem to integrate with hsi new brothers.

Mortarion calls Ku'Gath to help him and Typhous receives a demonic summons to pick off the starfort which he does not because he wnats to, but because nurgle will kill him if he doesnt. HE really hates mortarion.

Mortarion and Ku'Gath have a plan to drag ultramar into the warp. They have to change their first plan, becaus guiliman was winning too fast. so now he has to be wounden and then infected on iax, which they want to transform into "pestiliax". he has to die to a plague and not be killed in combat. then ultramar will become a part of nurgles garden.

 

So the planet where all the action is happening has been besiged by the death guard for some time and there is astra militarum and sisters fighting the traitors. we meet the major commanding the astra militarum and the sister superior. also there is a teenage girls that can cleanse wells and deflect plagues and what have you.

 

the main part of the book is the starfort being attacked by typhus, which has some cool fight scenes. and guiliman and his forces first deflecting the death guard and then going into open battle with them. some nice titan on titan action in that.

in the end guiliman fights a great unclean one, who manages to draw one drop of blood. this is enough to chain him and mortarion finally steps out to face him and gloats a bit. when he wants to kill him, the saint like girl steps in and moratrion cant kill guiliman so he twirls his mustache some more and escapes through a warp portal to iax with ku'gath. the starfort arrives, where typhus was repelled at the last moment by a detachment of greyknights and melts the remains of the traitors to slag.

 

So how did the girl get to the battle you ask? Well thats a good question. Guiliman didnt trust her. The sisters stuck some excruciators on her and determined her to be pure, but the primarch put her in hexagrammic wards and had her be guarded by an oblivion knight and the astra militarum and one primaris. but instructed by frater mathieu the sister superior kills all those people with some supernatural help from the girl and brings her to the battle, where she dies.

Guiliman is super pissed and has her executed. afterwards there is an awesome scene where he rages at mathieu about the emperor not being a god and worship being what fuels chaos, which is all pretty cool. the book closes with guiliman opening the mysterious box fromn the beginning and starting to read the lectatio divinatum. so maybe he will become a true believer after all. that is mathieus plan at least.

 

world building and interesting tidbits:

- guiliman understands that the emperor couldnt inform people about the existance of demons and gods because that pure knowledge would strengthen them, he also doesnt seem to be that sure if mayber there isnt a little bit of a something to that whole divinity thing. despite decreeing the opposite.

- ku'gath and mortarion talk about the emperor being active in the warp. apparently he helped guilimans ships along and calmed the tides of the warp for him. also the remark on the legion of the damned

- its left ambiguous wether the saint girl is actually a saint or a ploy of magnus. but to me the latter idea seemed kind of forced.

- demons can be entirely annihilated by the emperors sword or enough blanks. but there is differences in strength you need a ton of sisters and a weak demon. or the sword. the also recognize it as part of the anathema

- guiliman wonders wether the heresy was planned for or not

- guiliman payed no attention to the lectio divinatus in 30k to spite lorgar. and after the heresy he had it burned, but it formed the basis of imperial faith. he wonders wether the church knows this

- when directly asked wether he serves the emperor he says he serves humanits. when asked again he says he serves the emperors idea. he also remarks on how the emperor wasnt exactly his father, but more his creator

 

 

im sure i forgot some stuff. its a fun read and on the slightly shorter side so yea. 

[Lord Marshal]

I'm really bored of Saturday Morning Mortarion and Typhus.

[Boldthreat]

Just finished the book. Lots to discuss. I will go ahead and warn anyone looking for any new unit types or other Primaris specific information will be disappointed. I was, but the story is still great and there are many things, universe shaking things to be discussed.

 

Wish I wasn't going into work! Will be back on later!

[mc warhammer]

 

- guiliman wonders wether the heresy was planned for or not

 

pass the popcorn pls

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Okay so in spoiler freeish terms:

 

The largest portion of the book is the middle part which is a good old continten spanning nurgle vs ultramarines and pals slugfest plus some void war.

It's entertaining and well written so if thats your thing, cool, go get it. 

There is some interesting bits about the current state of primaris inbetween all that. No new units that I recognized though.

What the book does in its more worldbuilding focussed parts, largely at the beginning and end is confirm some fan theories.

So I'll give a brief summary and then post what I deemed important, all of the in the spoiler below. Do not read if you don't want to be spoilered okay?

 

Story:

Okay so we pick up after Dark Imperium 1. Frater Mathieu chills out aboard the Macraggaes hounour and starts writing his religously coloured account of the Plague War. It is established, that he is a really good guy who is fanatically devout and loves helping those in need. In it for the faith, not the glory.

We also meet one of Guillimans Historians, a female former Rogue trader who was almost burned for her atheist ways. She teases Mathieu a bit, and buggers up to talkt to Guiliman. They are like really chummy and chat about the heresy and stuff. she gives him a mysterious stastis box. Guiliman looks inside the box, looks at the camera and there is dramatic music. He sends her off with a message to dante.

Guiliman and his army must got to a Planet in Ultramar where Mortarion is currently attacking. So they go there. They also order a starfort full of novamarines there. Onboard the starfort there is a Sergeant called Justinian who is a primaris and cant really seem to integrate with hsi new brothers.

Mortarion calls Ku'Gath to help him and Typhous receives a demonic summons to pick off the starfort which he does not because he wnats to, but because nurgle will kill him if he doesnt. HE really hates mortarion.

Mortarion and Ku'Gath have a plan to drag ultramar into the warp. They have to change their first plan, becaus guiliman was winning too fast. so now he has to be wounden and then infected on iax, which they want to transform into "pestiliax". he has to die to a plague and not be killed in combat. then ultramar will become a part of nurgles garden.

 

So the planet where all the action is happening has been besiged by the death guard for some time and there is astra militarum and sisters fighting the traitors. we meet the major commanding the astra militarum and the sister superior. also there is a teenage girls that can cleanse wells and deflect plagues and what have you.

 

the main part of the book is the starfort being attacked by typhus, which has some cool fight scenes. and guiliman and his forces first deflecting the death guard and then going into open battle with them. some nice titan on titan action in that.

in the end guiliman fights a great unclean one, who manages to draw one drop of blood. this is enough to chain him and mortarion finally steps out to face him and gloats a bit. when he wants to kill him, the saint like girl steps in and moratrion cant kill guiliman so he twirls his mustache some more and escapes through a warp portal to iax with ku'gath. the starfort arrives, where typhus was repelled at the last moment by a detachment of greyknights and melts the remains of the traitors to slag.

 

So how did the girl get to the battle you ask? Well thats a good question. Guiliman didnt trust her. The sisters stuck some excruciators on her and determined her to be pure, but the primarch put her in hexagrammic wards and had her be guarded by an oblivion knight and the astra militarum and one primaris. but instructed by frater mathieu the sister superior kills all those people with some supernatural help from the girl and brings her to the battle, where she dies.

Guiliman is super pissed and has her executed. afterwards there is an awesome scene where he rages at mathieu about the emperor not being a god and worship being what fuels chaos, which is all pretty cool. the book closes with guiliman opening the mysterious box fromn the beginning and starting to read the lectatio divinatum. so maybe he will become a true believer after all. that is mathieus plan at least.

 

world building and interesting tidbits:

- guiliman understands that the emperor couldnt inform people about the existance of demons and gods because that pure knowledge would strengthen them, he also doesnt seem to be that sure if mayber there isnt a little bit of a something to that whole divinity thing. despite decreeing the opposite.

- ku'gath and mortarion talk about the emperor being active in the warp. apparently he helped guilimans ships along and calmed the tides of the warp for him. also the remark on the legion of the damned

- its left ambiguous wether the saint girl is actually a saint or a ploy of magnus. but to me the latter idea seemed kind of forced.

- demons can be entirely annihilated by the emperors sword or enough blanks. but there is differences in strength you need a ton of sisters and a weak demon. or the sword. the also recognize it as part of the anathema

- guiliman wonders wether the heresy was planned for or not

- guiliman payed no attention to the lectio divinatus in 30k to spite lorgar. and after the heresy he had it burned, but it formed the basis of imperial faith. he wonders wether the church knows this

- when directly asked wether he serves the emperor he says he serves humanits. when asked again he says he serves the emperors idea. he also remarks on how the emperor wasnt exactly his father, but more his creator

 

 

im sure i forgot some stuff. its a fun read and on the slightly shorter side so yea. 

I got the idea that the Saint was pretty much confirmed to be the Emperor, and the questioning of what she was came more from Guilliman's natural tendencies to decry the Imperium's religion. The table was set, in a way, in the beginning of the novel, when Mortarion and Ku'gath were talking about the Emperor possibly manifesting his Will once more in an organized fashion, and then later, when the Gangrel is fighting Colquan:

 

Her eyes were hollows and her skin blotched. Atop her head her hair was coming out in hanks. The white shift she wore was marred by burns. She was falling apart, but around her was a soft lambency that grew as she neared the two primarchs, filtering between the combatants, setting the mist aglow, turning it from something foul to a net of glorious light. Colquan’s gaze could not leave her. The conversation of the primarch brothers faded from his hearing. The creature fighting him ceased to be a concern. He could have died then, killed by the daemon, but the Neverborn too was enchanted. The fleshless septum of its nose quivered as she walked past. It raised a quivering finger, and spoke in a hissing bellows voice, creaking and choked with grave dust.

‘An-ath-e-ma…’

 

Also, to me, why wouldn't he wonder if the Emperor planned it all? The whole sainthood thing, how everything ended up turning out, etc. It read less like 'ermergerd I'm gonna declare war on the Ecclesiarchy rite now fam' and more similar to his introspections. Kind of like when that quote from Rise of the Primarch was put up before the lorebook actually came out, 'better that we had died in the fires of Horus' ambition', and yeah, that kinda is how he feels, but he understands the situation as well.

[Marshal Vespasian]

to be honest with the saint it fehlt weird. I did not even think of tzeentch/Magnus at first and then Guilliman as well as Mortarion talked about it possibly being tzeentch for quite a while. I agree that end bit sounds a lot like it actually Was the emperor. But strangely enough there was no "Guilliman recognized thepresence or something like that" the guy knows celestine and He has "talked" to the the emperor.


I dont think be is going to declare war on the ecclisarchy. I think/hope He is going to get in trouble with imperial Institution because he is not focused on the emperor but on the emperors dream/goal.
He actually is pretty understanding of how the emperor treated the primarchs and why.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

He believes people like Celestine are high level psykers, generally speaking. I don't think he had much time to register who or what saved him, he was too busy pulling off his best Angron impression. The only reason Colquan made the observation that he did was because he wasn't part of the time stop.

[Marshal Vespasian]

Yeah could be. Maybe that is just part of Guiliman struggling with accepting the emperor as divine or whatever.

 

Ku'Gath and Mortarion also remark that his fleet was protected and the warp becalmed by someone or something and Mathieu saw a golden path and angels. WIll be interesting to see what book three brings. Also I really want to read the next blood angels book now. It will be interesting to see what his orders for Dante were.

[Petitioner's City]

Started it and rather enjoying it, much more than its predecessor. I only found so much of Dark Imperium enjoyable - I didn't enjoy the times with the basic primaris characters, instead liking sections with Guilliman, the militant apostle, etc. In this, so far there's a lot to like

 

• the opening chapter was wonderful, although I kept thinking, flip your authorial voice adds authenticity to a hagiographical record, just mention you saw it! 
• as was the Novamarine chapter. Alongside other ultramarine founding chapters I usually don't have much interest in - but Haley immediately has (perhaps based on FFG) really reenvisioned them for me - and suggested the same of other ultramarine foundings. [on the table how i wish we had the 4th edition codex back to represent these alterities]. I also kinda am intrigued by the primaris character's remembrance of the VI Legion primaris character - it's striking, and suggests an emotional attachment a reader can take at whatever level they want. 
• the guardsman and the saint chapter, I loved especially for many details - the rubber suits (continunig the previous novel), the captain being so young (29), the bunker buster description, the rationality of the horror of it all. But most of all, the saint - a true Thorian-esque saint, and not a Celestine namedrop. It also felt like this lovely bizarre Age of Sigmar-esque moment.
• I even enjoyed the Great Unclean One chapter - at first I did go 'noooo!', but then quite liked it - although the daemon's scene with Mortarian felt like an expository chapter, and needed to involve some West Wing-esque walking down corridors to enliven their dialogue (possibly being read by David Warner and Robin Sachs (RIP) to make it a little less heavy). But of course there are big ideas in the soup - the Emperor is considered to be a possible active player by these two senior daemonic forces, most of all. 

 

Overall, excited to see where this goes!

[Taliesin]

Looks like there's a lot more Typhus in this novel than there is in Lords of Silence?

[Marshal Rohr]

My more cynical side would be delighted if Neu-Guilliman and the sigmarines ended up believing the Emperor was a god just for the reactions of some.

[Guest Triszin]

I think guilliman is reading it to get a better understanding of the imperial faith.

 

then tie in talking with emps, Guilliman will just state, that these humans that are worshipped as divines, aren't just psykers. but they are the next steps in human evolution, the path that the emperor put humans down and that path is still being followed.

 

 

 

- I also kinda view it like the whitescars and space wolves..

 

-- Scars and wolves channel the warp through planets/planet deities, and thus it acts as a buffer for them and makes it safer.

 

what if the emperors plan was

 

- to have humanity as it evolves channel the warp from/through the emperor, acting as a buffer for them in a similar manner.

[caladancid]

I think guilliman is reading it to get a better understanding of the imperial faith.

 

then tie in talking with emps, Guilliman will just state, that these humans that are worshipped as divines, aren't just psykers. but they are the next steps in human evolution, the path that the emperor put humans down and that path is still being followed.

 

 

 

- I also kinda view it like the whitescars and space wolves..

 

-- Scars and wolves channel the warp through planets/planet deities, and thus it acts as a buffer for them and makes it safer.

 

what if the emperors plan was

 

- to have humanity as it evolves channel the warp from/through the emperor, acting as a buffer for them in a similar manner.

 

Maybe.  It certainly comes off like he is actually considering whether the book is the truth.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

Was hoping for an Audio version, guess I will be waiting

You need to take reading lessons dude.

 

 

I wish I could xD

[mc warhammer]

 

I think guilliman is reading it to get a better understanding of the imperial faith.

 

then tie in talking with emps, Guilliman will just state, that these humans that are worshipped as divines, aren't just psykers. but they are the next steps in human evolution, the path that the emperor put humans down and that path is still being followed.

 

 

 

- I also kinda view it like the whitescars and space wolves..

 

-- Scars and wolves channel the warp through planets/planet deities, and thus it acts as a buffer for them and makes it safer.

 

what if the emperors plan was

 

- to have humanity as it evolves channel the warp from/through the emperor, acting as a buffer for them in a similar manner.

 

Maybe.  It certainly comes off like he is actually considering whether the book is the truth.

 

 

yeah i imagine he'll theoretical the f outta that book

[Osteoclast]

Definitely an enjoyable read and the characterizations and insights of characters from across such a breadth was fantastic. Seeing how a Primaris adjusts to being transferred to a second Founding chapter was some great psychology. Sicarius and how being lost in the warp affected him was also enjoyable as an insight.

 

Blanks

Lots of focus on using blanks and psykout weaponry it seemed to me. Interesting effect of blanks/Sisters of Silence that I don't believe I've seen before: They kill daemons true dead, not just banished.

 

The Saint

Clearly not an actual living saint; very interesting that hexagrammtic wards and blanks don't affect true living saints but they did her. My personal theory is that she was in fact a psyker, but possessed by the Emperor. An Emperor-host if you will.

 

Mathieu and faith

Mathieu came off rather annoying in this installment, and I'm kinda wondering if he's setting himself up for a burning at the stake at the end of the trilogy. The ending is certainly intriguing, but I doubt it's going to result in a conversion by Guilliman. Absolutely loved the debate in the beginning however.

[DarkChaplain]

I mean, it makes sense, re: blanks

 

Untouchables of enough strength, or enough cumulative strength, wouldn't just limit warp access, but completely isolate the daemon entity from its birth realm. Blanks would obviously already weaken them within their vicinity, by making their hold on reality unstable, but if they were to completely isolate it in real space, with no way to flop back into the aether upon death? That's gonna hamper the reforming quite handily.

There's got to be a difference, though, between just pushing them back into the warp and cutting them off from it, and killing it in real space.

 

It really reminds me of poor Doomrider, who is prevented from reforming by the White Scars keeping his head "alive" in real space.

[Ishagu]

Finished it. Wow, lots to discuss. Will type out my thoughts when I'm home.

[Guest]

Finished in 1 sitting. loved it... Guys DI series is proving to be really good.
 
My 3 takeaways
 

The Emperor is dead or at least my take.

 

The girl was possessed by the Emperor

 

Guilliman is going to read Lorgars book... I can't wait to see what changes this will make to him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This sounds really amazing !!!

[Sete]

last page of the book, following a battle against mortarion in which the emperor possibly intervened through an imperial saint, gulliman starts to read the lectito divinatus wuuuuut

 

HAR HAR HAR. Give the man a cross and a Black Armour xD

Also BT will lose another thing that currently makes them (almost) unique.

i can already see Ultramarines with tabards.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Finished in 1 sitting. loved it... Guys DI series is proving to be really good.

 

My 3 takeaways

 

The Emperor is dead or at least my take.

 

The girl was possessed by the Emperor

 

Guilliman is going to read Lorgars book... I can't wait to see what changes this will make to him.

Eh - if anything, I took away that the Emperor was anything but dead. Girl couldn't have been possessed otherwise. Rather, I would say that the Emperor Guilliman knew is dead, and what's taken His place is an ascending God - what Horus and Lorgar accused the Emperor of attempting to achieve during the Heresy.

Hell, the way I think about it, it's not just the Emperor's plans that have changed, it's the Emperor himself, since one version cannot complete the other's plans.

[Guest]

 

Finished in 1 sitting. loved it... Guys DI series is proving to be really good.

 

My 3 takeaways

 

The Emperor is dead or at least my take.

 

The girl was possessed by the Emperor

 

Guilliman is going to read Lorgars book... I can't wait to see what changes this will make to him.

Eh - if anything, I took away that the Emperor was anything but dead. Girl couldn't have been possessed otherwise. Rather, I would say that the Emperor Guilliman knew is dead, and what's taken His place is an ascending God - what Horus and Lorgar accused the Emperor of attempting to achieve during the Heresy.

Hell, the way I think about it, it's not just the Emperor's plans that have changed, it's the Emperor himself, since one version cannot complete the other's plans.

 

 

I mean more in the physical sense. We knew Warp wise he isnt.

[JH79]

Was hoping for an Audio version, guess I will be waiting

Fear not Brother, Dark Imperium had the same release format, ebook and Hardback first followed by Paperback and Audiobook around 6 months later... though there was no hint that an audiobook was coming, it just landed at the same time as the paperback