Dark Imperium II by Guy Haley

[caladancid]

Definitely a fantastic read.  Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star.  I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him.  My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit. 

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches.  In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it.  Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do.  Very cool.

[Izlude]

Definitely a fantastic read.  Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star.  I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him.  My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit. 

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches.  In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it.  Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do.  Very cool.

Is Sicarius sort of boring as he sounds? I am not too familiar with him as I am more of a HH reader but know that he is a swordsman. In DI one and the Armour of fate, he comes across as dull. I do like Guilliman comment about how he has so many titles that sounds like a dig.

 

Do we get much Calgar in DI 2? I loved how Calgar felt sort of dejected when he was always in the lime light in the 40k world. 

 

I am re-reading the first one before I read the ebook. 

[Guest]

 

Definitely a fantastic read.  Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star.  I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him.  My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit. 

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches.  In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it.  Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do.  Very cool.

Is Sicarius sort of boring as he sounds? I am not too familiar with him as I am more of a HH reader but know that he is a swordsman. In DI one and the Armour of fate, he comes across as dull. I do like Guilliman comment about how he has so many titles that sounds like a dig.

 

Do we get much Calgar in DI 2? I loved how Calgar felt sort of dejected when he was always in the lime light in the 40k world. 

 

I am re-reading the first one before I read the ebook. 

 

 

Sicarius

 

Sicarius is a changed man, the warp has made him more guarded more sullen. I like this new Sicarius

 

Calgar

 

There is a passing mention of Calgar, I am under no illusion that Guilliman has the up most confidence in Calgar. But like most Calgar feels inferior to Guilliman something you can't hold against him.

[Subtleknife]

I found the priest chapter not really to my interest, I hope RG burns him in the next book. I dont know why but I felt like Magnus was behind it even before the book voiced that option. I was devastated when the Sister of Battle killed the IG Commander who had survived the initial battle and died doing his duty - really liked the way the author wrote that scene. Felt the book was a bit slow overall and I would have liked it to have expanded the universe and Primaris a bit more than it did - preferred the first one if im honest. I did like the ending battle and aftermath though, makes me excited for the third book. Also, it kinda confirmed Primaris veterans - I just hope we get the models for them soon.

[Chapter Master Valrak]

 

Was hoping for an Audio version, guess I will be waiting

Fear not Brother, Dark Imperium had the same release format, ebook and Hardback first followed by Paperback and Audiobook around 6 months later... though there was no hint that an audiobook was coming, it just landed at the same time as the paperback 

 

 

Yeah, I just thought they would of kind of launched it as an audio right at the start, I eventually got the e-book version of it, will still get the audio as well though :)

[caladancid]

 

Definitely a fantastic read.  Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star.  I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him.  My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit. 

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches.  In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it.  Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do.  Very cool.

Is Sicarius sort of boring as he sounds? I am not too familiar with him as I am more of a HH reader but know that he is a swordsman. In DI one and the Armour of fate, he comes across as dull. I do like Guilliman comment about how he has so many titles that sounds like a dig.

 

Do we get much Calgar in DI 2? I loved how Calgar felt sort of dejected when he was always in the lime light in the 40k world. 

 

I am re-reading the first one before I read the ebook. 

 

 

Sicarius wasn't boring at all, though he is still very much a supporting character.  We still haven't seen a ton of him, but his character is growing.  Almost no mention of Calgar this time, just a very brief conversation about an event that involves him.

[Roomsky]

Sounds like a quality follow-up to a quality book. Much as a harp on the Dark Imperium, I want to reiterate that I think the BL authors are mostly doing a great job with what they've been given. Chris Wraight's works have been phenomenal, Haley seems to be covering the important ground that is Salty Guillimantm very well, and the sundry works I've read have all been good to great. I'm even more elated that works like Lords of Silence pull damage control on the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously).

 

So bravo Haley, for taking these plot developments in stride. If nothing else, it makes for a good fanfic.

 

No, I won't abandon my headcanon, go away.

[mc warhammer]

 

 

No, I won't abandon my headcanon, go away.

 

out of interest, what is your headcanon?

[Roomsky]

 

 

 

No, I won't abandon my headcanon, go away.

 

out of interest, what is your headcanon?

 

 

We never did find out what happened after that 13th Black Crusade.

[Petitioner's City]

[...] the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously). [...]

 

I'm curious can you expand on you think are the 'setting's core tenants' - I love these kind of discussions, and the variety of positions we all have.

[Marshal Loss]

I'm even more elated that works like Lords of Silence pull damage control on the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously).

 

Couldn't agree more, and although I haven't read Plague War yet if Haley is continuing this trend then I'll be very happy

 

 

 

[...] the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously). [...]

 

I'm curious can you expand on you think are the 'setting's core tenants' - I love these kind of discussions, and the variety of positions we all have.

 

 

Won't answer exhaustively as I don't want to put words in his mouth, but the entire setting was built up over a period of decades where Primarchs (and all that accompanied them) were exclusively a thing of the distant past. This complicated relationship with the past shaped nearly every aspect of the Imperium, and with it, the setting. Their return throws into disarray many important characters, movements and institutions whose importance is severely diminished when you have demigods from the dawn of the Imperium walking around once more. It isn't hard to look for examples of where this is causing problems: the entire cast of pre-existing Space Marine characters now being inferior to Primaris, the meta narrative being focused around a minority of characters, etc. Abaddon's importance (thankfully dealt with to some degree by Wraight in Lords of Silence) in an era where Primarchs are active again is another notable example.

 

There is a very real danger in the mid/long-term of GW having exchanged one status quo for another that makes arguably less sense and simply revolves around all the Primarchs, making it 30k 2.0. But they have shown a lot of restraint with regards to bringing Primarchs back so far, which I think most would agree is good for the setting.

[Ishagu]

In Lords of Silence it does say more will be returning so the restraint thing might just be a case of waiting for all Codex released to be done.

[DarkChaplain]

As long as they bring back the Lion before Russ, at least. One brings narrative tension and past history with Guilliman, the other is a tie-breaker who doesn't care enough about politics to shake things up were he to arrive.

[JH79]

 

 

Was hoping for an Audio version, guess I will be waiting

Fear not Brother, Dark Imperium had the same release format, ebook and Hardback first followed by Paperback and Audiobook around 6 months later... though there was no hint that an audiobook was coming, it just landed at the same time as the paperback 

 

 

Yeah, I just thought they would of kind of launched it as an audio right at the start, I eventually got the e-book version of it, will still get the audio as well though

 

Completely agree... my preferred option would be for BL to have a consistant approach to release formats and include audio as standard, though i can't really grumble as it certainly gets more attention now than it ever has before in terms of catalogue coverage!

 

My guess for titles like Dark Imperium II is that BL want to maximise sales due to this being a flagship title, the assumption is demand will be high and it will sell well. When the paperback drops in 6 months time, hopefully with the audio too, it will sell well again and may even get double dippers (such as your glorious self) and me... though i probably still won't have had the time to read the damn Hardback by the time i get the audio! 

[Osteoclast]

Definitely a fantastic read.  Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star.  I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him.  My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit. 

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches.  In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it.  Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do.  Very cool.

 

The problem for me is that Mathieu feels much more fanatic than he does believer, if that makes sense, and it makes it hard for me to like or sympathize with him.

[Ishagu]

 

 

Definitely a fantastic read. Mathieu is central to the major events in this book and for me the breakout star. I can see him being a polarizing character, but I liked every scene with him. My particular favorite was the one with Sicarius during warp transit.

 

What I really love about Mathieu is that he apparently is actually a genuine believer and seems like he is (mostly) practicing the things he preaches. In the beginning when he is writing the 'history' you can tell he is not sitting back but is fighting just as hard as anyone else, but he is so reluctant to talk about it. Then you get that scene with Sicarius where even that legendary fighter is impressed by what he has seen Mathieu do. Very cool.

The problem for me is that Mathieu feels much more fanatic than he does believer, if that makes sense, and it makes it hard for me to like or sympathize with him.

That's the idea. He's outright dangerous!

[Roomsky]

 

[...] the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously). [...]

 

I'm curious can you expand on you think are the 'setting's core tenants' - I love these kind of discussions, and the variety of positions we all have.

 

 

Aye, `tis a fun topic.

 

Disclaimers:

1 - Again, I think the books being written about this period I dislike are generally very good. 

2 - This is obviously an opinion piece

 

My issue is one of what the setting is built on, rather than what it is, if that makes any sense. I will admit, in the BL novels especially, the galaxy is in most cases a worse place to live than before, the setting hasn't, on the surface, become nobledark (despite what the most recent art may convey.)

 

But the grimness, and in my mind, the soul, of the setting (and especially the Imperium) is not measured merely in suffering, but rather in ignorance, and in a lack of agency. The Imperium has, quite literally, no idea (beyond survival) why it functions how it does, the monstrosity of its own bureaucracy has mutated everything that it once stood for into a nightmarish parody of itself. It's hard to articulate, so I'll use some examples. 

 

That Millions die every day to space bugs, space plagues, and space egyptians is not why the setting is dark.

 

The setting is dark because the most powerful empire in the galaxy can't wipe out it's significantly smaller foes because it's a bureaucratic nightmare.

The setting is dark because the Mechanicus would sell out the empire ruled by their own god for a toaster from the 50's

The setting is dark because the Ultramarines, rather than let their gene father pass into well-earned rest, put him in stasis literal seconds from agonizing death so future generations could prop him up as a morbid shrine

 

"Forget the power of progress and understanding."

 

Old grudges are fought over with little to no context about why they exist in the first place. The setting, writ large, was built on that dramatic irony. Now, whatever he happens to hide from his subjects, Guilliman is a walking window into that past. Context now strides among the landscape defined by its absence. That lack giving rise to the setting's defining features such as: The Age of Apostasy, The Modern Inquisition, The Ecclesiarchy, Astartes Zealotry, The worship of Primarchs, and quite literally the setting's entire aesthetic.

 

My other major issue is that the metanarrative makes it seem like the efforts of 10,000 years of setting have been keeping the seat warm for its founders to come back. You can't even name a Guilliman equivalent pre Gathering Storm. The efforts of the setting's factions could never be reduced to one active character. Bjorn isn't the Imperium's focus, neither Dante nor Seth nor Cantor nor Creed nor Greyfax nor anyone else. The closest to that phenomenon, Abaddon, literally scrounges for power and in terms of attention still competes with Huron, Lucius, Khârn, and Ahriman. But, again, here we have a faction fighting for ideals that died 10,000 years ago.

 

The Primarchs returning takes importance from all the little cogs that made their factions go. Screw the guard, Guilliman is where it's at. Screw Typhus, Mortarion is the big boy around these parts. It's centralization in a setting defined by it's absence. Eisenhorn isn't cool because he's the centre of the universe, Eisenhorn's entire expansive plotline is a tiny wheel in a galaxy that doesn't even notice what he's doing.

 

40k is not a plot, it is a setting rich for the telling of stories big and small, so loved because of an identity cultivated from what I discussed above. I get why the changes have happened from a marketing perspective, but it doesn't understand why 40k became a cornerstone of geekdom in the first place, and frankly the 10,000 years between the Heresy and the 13th Black Crusade have barely been tapped. There are so many new stories you could tell in that timeframe. 

 

I could go on about how Primaris are lazy, how bringing back the Lion would have been twenty times more interesting without stepping on one of the setting's greatest symbols of Imperial psychology, how the non-human factions haven't been given an iota the development they should be in this brave new world, or even how anyone on this forum could have come up with something more interesting than "Guilliman comes back and is reasonable, a 10,000 year old Tech Priest invents Super Space Marines", but to me, none of those things exceed "lazy writing" in their fault. But by bringing back the very essence of a faction, I'm left to wonder why I should even care about the little people who make the setting tick.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

The closest to that phenomenon, Abaddon, literally scrounges for power and in terms of attention still competes with Huron, Lucius, Khârn, and Ahriman. But, again, here we have a faction fighting for ideals that died 10,000 years ago.

 

 

Just to clarify, that's not really the case, and is more a problem with fan interpretation. Abaddon is literally the new Horus. Once he took the position of Warmaster of the Black Legion, his influence amongst the forces of Chaos has been unmatched. Lucius/Khârn/Ahriman etc can get significant followings from their own faction, but would struggle to attract followers outside it. Abaddon doesn't. He has the support of all 4 gods, the Daemon Primarchs have bowed to his might. As for Huron? He's an upstart with 300 years of service to Chaos, that has managed to carve out an empire in that time. Outside the Maelstrom region though, he's basically a nobody. He led the Badab War, but since that time has had almost no major achievements, formation of his empire not-withstanding. He's got nothing on Abaddon.

[caladancid]

 

 

My other major issue is that the metanarrative makes it seem like the efforts of 10,000 years of setting have been keeping the seat warm for its founders to come back. You can't even name a Guilliman equivalent pre Gathering Storm. The efforts of the setting's factions could never be reduced to one active character. Bjorn isn't the Imperium's focus, neither Dante nor Seth nor Cantor nor Creed nor Greyfax nor anyone else. The closest to that phenomenon, Abaddon, literally scrounges for power and in terms of attention still competes with Huron, Lucius, Khârn, and Ahriman. But, again, here we have a faction fighting for ideals that died 10,000 years ago.

 

 

Great post.  I personally don't agree with how the changes make you feel, but really well said and I like hearing opinions like that.

 

I did want to point out one thing though.  Hasn't the Imperium quite literally been keeping the seat warm for 10k years? They had Guilliman in actual stasis in the hope that one day they could fix him.  The Emperor himself is kept hanging on in agony....all because the setting is completely about how these guys from the past (and before then the distant past itself) were much better and can't be replaced.  That seat is real warm, and kept that way in the most 40k of ways- the awful sacrifice of thousands of psykers every day. 

 

And on a more practical note, I think the setting appears to be about Guilliman because he is getting most of the books and fluff.  He is new, and I would assume as more stuff gets written, he will appear less dominant.

[carlisimo]

- I also kinda view it like the whitescars and space wolves..

 

-- Scars and wolves channel the warp through planets/planet deities, and thus it acts as a buffer for them and makes it safer.

 

what if the emperors plan was

 

- to have humanity as it evolves channel the warp from/through the emperor, acting as a buffer for them in a similar manner.

Just the Space Wolves. The White Scars love their homeworld but they don’t think of it as psychically active; they’re aware and accepting of the Warp containing daemons and requiring moderation to use safely.

 

Your idea about the Emperor’s plan sounds alright - kind of a Plan B after losing the war in the Webway. It doesn’t feel like something that’s been set up in previous writings, but none of the new material does so why the hell not.

[Roomsky]

 

 

The closest to that phenomenon, Abaddon, literally scrounges for power and in terms of attention still competes with Huron, Lucius, Khârn, and Ahriman. But, again, here we have a faction fighting for ideals that died 10,000 years ago.

 

 

Just to clarify, that's not really the case, and is more a problem with fan interpretation. Abaddon is literally the new Horus. Once he took the position of Warmaster of the Black Legion, his influence amongst the forces of Chaos has been unmatched. Lucius/Khârn/Ahriman etc can get significant followings from their own faction, but would struggle to attract followers outside it. Abaddon doesn't. He has the support of all 4 gods, the Daemon Primarchs have bowed to his might. As for Huron? He's an upstart with 300 years of service to Chaos, that has managed to carve out an empire in that time. Outside the Maelstrom region though, he's basically a nobody. He led the Badab War, but since that time has had almost no major achievements, formation of his empire not-withstanding. He's got nothing on Abaddon.

 

 

Poor phrasing on my part. By attention I meant out of universe, Ezykyle is hardly the one face of chaos. The faction as a whole cannot be reduced to "Abaddon and his minions," while with the current focus (especially in the present marketing) it's been very much "Guilliman and his minions." It's too reducible towards a single character.

 

 

 I did want to point out one thing though.  Hasn't the Imperium quite literally been keeping the seat warm for 10k years? They had Guilliman in actual stasis in the hope that one day they could fix him.  The Emperor himself is kept hanging on in agony....all because the setting is completely about how these guys from the past (and before then the distant past itself) were much better and can't be replaced.  That seat is real warm, and kept that way in the most 40k of ways- the awful sacrifice of thousands of psykers every day. 

 

Yes, but that attitude perpetuated in futility is a very different flavour than it actually panning out. The Imperium burns defiantly over several causes that are ultimately futile. Again, they may see themselves as keeping the seat warm, but in reality they were propping up a near-corpse for the sake of worship the guy wouldn't have even wanted. That folly is very meaningful drama, while those heroic figures actually returning takes the piss out of their endeavors in the mean time. Entire systems were fought for with tooth and nail, in the name of the Emperor but effectively for the inhabitants, not keeping resources around so Guilliman could make things nicer.

 

Now, I'm fully aware that point is some serious YMMV, but I can't but see at as anything but "primarchs were active, a bunch of nobodies held the guard for 10,000 years, and then the primarchs were active again." It dilutes the importance, at least for me, of everything in between.

 

 

And on a more practical note, I think the setting appears to be about Guilliman because he is getting most of the books and fluff.  He is new, and I would assume as more stuff gets written, he will appear less dominant.

 

If the new setting takes a major step away from Guilliman and emphasizes the primarchs lack of importance in the grand scheme, I would be a very happy fellow. Like so many others, I love the primarchs, but I hate to see them roll in and steal the show. It's not their age anymore, let them fight petty wars and futilely try to maintain what they once believed in. Don't let them turn the setting into Heresy 2.0.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That's always been a flaw of 40k, though. Everything always revolves around the special characters and factions. It's why I was so bitterly disappointed by the Farsight Enclaves supplements, they were supposed to be about the Enclaves themselves, but instead give a lengthy history of Farsight himself, then a paragraph on each of the 4 planets in the Enclaves, and that's it. Every Blood Angels engagement has featured Dante/Sanguinor/Lemartes/Tycho, in some combination or other. Ultramarines? It's Sicarius, Calgar or Cassius, etc. The Imperial Guard is apparently only Cadians, occasionally Catachan, unless the author has temporarily had the C key break on his keyboard, at which point they might use another Regiment.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Yet you have nothing but lots of praise for Abbadon .

[DarkChaplain]

That's always been a flaw of 40k, though. Everything always revolves around the special characters and factions. It's why I was so bitterly disappointed by the Farsight Enclaves supplements, they were supposed to be about the Enclaves themselves, but instead give a lengthy history of Farsight himself, then a paragraph on each of the 4 planets in the Enclaves, and that's it. Every Blood Angels engagement has featured Dante/Sanguinor/Lemartes/Tycho, in some combination or other. Ultramarines? It's Sicarius, Calgar or Cassius, etc. The Imperial Guard is apparently only Cadians, occasionally Catachan, unless the author has temporarily had the C key break on his keyboard, at which point they might use another Regiment.

 

Especially with Black Library, that has not been true in forever. Heck, the earliest Ultramarines novels might have featured Calgar and Tigurius in places, as side characters/big chief, but they've been about Uriel Ventris and the 4th Company and their engagements. Swallow's Blood Angels series was primarily focused on Rafen, hence their single-volume Omnibus being the Rafen Omnibus. There have been countless Chaos books without either Abaddon, Khârn, Lucius, Ahriman or Typhus - to the point that Lucius, for example, has only recently received his first book, Ahriman took until a few years back to get his defining trilogy, and Khârn is still waiting on a proper follow-up to Eater of Worlds, which was a short novel.

 

Even Space Marine Battles, which started as a series intent on covering blips from Codex timelines, has always diverged drastically from that only-big-names formula. Yes, you'll see Bjorn in Battle of the Fang, Grimaldus on Armageddon, or Gabriel Seth in Flesh Tearers, but there are so many previously non-existent characters in them that the big, celebrity names are few and far between.

 

Cadians are in so far the "default" Guard that they were the most iconic gear, without the Valhallan longcoats, Steel Legion gas masks, or Vostroyan... nonsense. Their kit is immediately recognizable as guard, and Kasrkin barely show up in stories that aren't specifically about Cadia. They've had a little more coverage lately, seeing how the Fall of Cadia was a thing, and some stories tried exploring the events surrounding it, or the following trauma (like Titans' Bane), but there are countless Guard stories *not* about them. From the Valhallan's in Cain (along with a bunch of other regiments here and there), to individual books in the old IG series, or short stories even in Inferno! volume one, about an original regiment, or even the Arkhans in Fehervari's Phaedra setting. Cadia is relevant, or was, as a massive recruitment world that was exemplary at what the Guard does, raising its children as soldiers and so on. But Black Library has never forgotten that there are more than them, and often, authors have created fantastic examples of well-realized regiments.

 

Now, I won't argue that the Tau stories were pretty much that so far, outside of short stories, although even those often star a named character. However, I'd put at least part of the blame on the author primarily concerned with them these days: Phil Kelly. He definitely had massive issues with small world syndrome in his stories, and it doesn't help that his stuff also often reads like battle reports. Reading his Sigmar's Blood a few years back (which I only did in one sitting because I did a full system check on my PC at the time and it took hours to complete...), it was pretty obvious that he ticks boxes of characters and specific unit entries, which I've found in his more recent works as well. Authors who did and do shake things up barely write for BL anymore, and even when they would've liked to write about Farsight, Phil Kelly had that nailed down years before even the first Farsight novella launched...

 

I think this overall issue is pretty much confined to the Codex releases, which offer highly condensed info about their factions, and as a result try to make the most out of iconic characters and subfactions. Most events barely get an infobox worth of detail, and even timeline entries are phased out every edition and replaced with new ones. It may have gotten worse since the change in direction regarding characters without models, though. The studio is likely reluctant to introduce new names to the fluff sections which don't also have rules and models.

[Indefragable]

 

 

[...] the return of the primarch's taking a dump on so very many of the setting's core tenants (IMO, Obviously). [...]

 

I'm curious can you expand on you think are the 'setting's core tenants' - I love these kind of discussions, and the variety of positions we all have.

 

 

Aye, `tis a fun topic.

 

Disclaimers:

1 - Again, I think the books being written about this period I dislike are generally very good. 

2 - This is obviously an opinion piece

 

<snip>

 

 

<slow clap>.

 

Well stated. Can't say I agree with it all, but it is logical, impassioned, and even is reflective of some of Rick Priestly's thoughts ( http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350591-new-lost-legions-background-by-rick-priestley/?p=5173428 ) on the idea that Primarchs and the Horus Heresy were meant to be a barely remembered/understood "mythical" past for the characters of the 41st millennium.

 

 

- I also kinda view it like the whitescars and space wolves..

 

-- Scars and wolves channel the warp through planets/planet deities, and thus it acts as a buffer for them and makes it safer.

 

what if the emperors plan was

 

- to have humanity as it evolves channel the warp from/through the emperor, acting as a buffer for them in a similar manner.

Just the Space Wolves. The White Scars love their homeworld but they don’t think of it as psychically active; they’re aware and accepting of the Warp containing daemons and requiring moderation to use safely.

 

Your idea about the Emperor’s plan sounds alright - kind of a Plan B after losing the war in the Webway. It doesn’t feel like something that’s been set up in previous writings, but none of the new material does so why the hell not.

 

 

On the WS psykers....

Hidden Content

The White Scares call it the Test of Heaven: when an aspirant who shows psychic inclinations climbs the highest mountain and communes with the warp. The Test part can't be overemphasized because how those powers are unlocked are intertwined with the setting the test takes place in. The top of the mountain is dangerously cold, the air dangerously thin, a simple misstep could send a person falling to their doom. The physical precautions a person must take to survive the setting directly mirror and inform the mental/spiritual precautions they must face to survive in the warp. It's very nature reflects those lyrics "if you want to kiss the sky, you better learn how to kneel."

 

So Stormseers (White Scars librarians) are almost like weathermen in how they use the Warp to know which way the wind is blowing and when to seek shelter, etc... It's all about living with the Warp as dangerous part of nature that is to respected and cautiously skimmed. Putting up sail on a windy day can get you places faster, but put up too many and your ship is going to capsize, etc...  Directly compare/contrast to other chapters (<cough> Thousand Sons <cough>) who were all about "controlling" the Warp.

 

...one of the beautiful parts of the Scars backstory. One of the greatest tragedies of the pre-Heresy was the language gap that prevented Targutai Yesugei from imparting such wisdom at the Council of Nikea. The whole HH arc of the Scars, from Scars, through Path of Heaven, and the Jaghati Khan: Warhawk of Chogoris novels all explore these themes.

 

Sorry, geek out over. Back to your original programming.

 

 

I find the tidbits dropped in the Dark Imperium novels neat-o, but they're just not compelling to me at all. I'll wait until other chapters/factions/races have even 20% as much time in the spotlight before caring what happens with RG awoke.

Just my humble personal opinion. Carry on.