Dark Imperium II by Guy Haley

[DarkChaplain]

There've been a few shower scenes in Black Library fiction. The one that still stands out to me is from Gav Thorpe's Raven's Flight, where Valerius considers his rationed showering water.

[Gederas]

last page of the book, following a battle against mortarion in which the emperor possibly intervened through an imperial saint, gulliman starts to read the lectito divinatus wuuuuut

HAR HAR HAR. Give the man a cross and a Black Armour xD

Also BT will lose another thing that currently makes them (almost) unique.

i can already see Ultramarines with tabards.

-Pedant Hat on-

Black Templars aren't wearing Tabards. They're wearing monastic scapula, or a surcoat.

 

THIS is a Tabard:

Tabards normally end above the knee.

 

Surcoat: Covers front and sides, usually sown on the sides, covers below the knee somewhere in the shin area, and has a split down the middle for ease of riding.

Scapula: Covers front and sides, not sown on the side, no split down the middle, covers down to the knee/shin.

Tabard: Front flap, back flap, normally reaches knee, very wide.

 

TL;DR: A Scapula is an apron for your front and back, a Surcoat is similar but has a split for horse riding and is usually sown up on the side, and the Tabard is a t-shirt with delusions of grandeur

-pedant hat off-

 

... Sorry, it's just I enjoy historical recreations and using the wrong term for something that has a term already is just confusing :lol:

 

There've been a few shower scenes in Black Library fiction. The one that still stands out to me is from Gav Thorpe's Raven's Flight, where Valerius considers his rationed showering water.

Iirc, there was also one in the Horus Heresy where a rememberancer(?) observes a Marine getting out of the shower and commenting on his unarmoured appearance.

 

[Prot]

I’m just loving how Guy writes Guilliman. I find I’m riveted by those scenes and I think quite honestly he might be my favourite Ultra writer at this time.

[b1soul]

Abnett and Guy both give Guilliman a very human spark

[FirstSonofHorus]

I’m just loving how Guy writes Guilliman. I find I’m riveted by those scenes and I think quite honestly he might be my favourite Ultra writer at this time.

 

Agreed. Whilst I was disappointed with the book in general, the scenes with Gulliman were fascinating. 

[Panzer]

I’m just loving how Guy writes Guilliman. I find I’m riveted by those scenes and I think quite honestly he might be my favourite Ultra writer at this time.

 

Yeah these books made me actually like Guilliman a lot. Still not a fan of Ultramarines but at least their Primarch is great. :P

[Dulahan]

Agreed, I like how Guilliman is portrayed a lot.

[karden00]

Am I entirely out to lunch? This book isn’t out for another six months? Huh?

[Panzer]

Am I entirely out to lunch? This book isn’t out for another six months? Huh?

 

What are you talking about?

https://www.blacklibrary.com/new-titles/featured/dark-imperium-plague-war.html

[Kelborn]

Even I got it already in German. Oo

 

Round about half a year after DI one was released in German. BL got a very weird release schedule these days...

 

For example, still no sign of The Last Hunt in German.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Am I entirely out to lunch? This book isn’t out for another six months? Huh?

Not lunch, but some unholy combination of brunch and supper by the looks of it...sorry dude

[karden00]

LOL hahahahahahahahhahaahahaa 

Man did I eat the wrong cornflakes! 

[Izlude]

I am about 1/3 ways in and I have to say I really like this one, in some ways better than the first. I will have more to say when I finish but so far:

 

1. Love that rogue trader (Sulymanya). She is refreshing and a good contrast to the Frater. 

 

2. Guilliman 's introspection is awesome, I loved that about the first one focusing on his musing and thoughts about the current state of affairs when compared to the HH times. It makes him almost human despite that he is "god-like."

 

3. Deathguard: Chris really hit it out of the park with Lords of Silence and his depiction of the DG. I won't say that this one is the same but it is really good, especially the "desperate housewife" like stuff with Typhus et al. The DG in general are well written and I like how the whole "we love having our guts hang out and boils...so should you." 

 

There isn't too much of the Primaris stuff which I honestly didn't like as much in the first one as I felt those fight scenes were more to say how awesome they are and that we should all buy them. 

 

Anyways look forward to the rest...hope to see some Mortarian and RG banter! Guy is definitely cracking my "tetrarch" of ADB, Abnett, Wraight and French. I have really enjoyed everything he has put out when Pharos came out (HH-related and TBA). 

[Arkangilos]

 

 

For arguments sake, Mortarion saying the loyalists are coming back could just be what he thinks. Doesn't mean he is right. Although being psychically attuned might mean that he can somehow sense their presence.

That's not how it works or how it was explained. Demons exist outside of the timeline as human beings perceive time. Demons know what happens to them in the past, present and future. If you go find the LoS thread on here you'll see the lines that started all of this. Mortarion is talking to one of his sons and was surprised that the son didn't know about the Cadia falling or the surviving loyalist primarchs coming back to fight. Mortarion even tells him that it is because he doesn't perceive time like Mortarion does.

 

That's why this bit in the book was more than just the usual "When the Wolftime is here, and here's a checklist, and wow all the things are checked off so Russ MUST come back...right?" allusion or inference that GW or BL leaves like easter eggs to fans. This reads in the book like my telling you that I read a memo that you were getting promoted to senior manager and when I said grats, you were confused, until I told you I had read the memo you didn't have access to read. It is stated as an absolute definite thing that already happened in the life of the person with the secret knowledge.

Then why did Tzeentch have to create that greater daemon that could see the future but only one head could tell the truth? If they can all see the future than why don't daemons always win? Why do they need oracles and such?

[Panzer]

 

 

For arguments sake, Mortarion saying the loyalists are coming back could just be what he thinks. Doesn't mean he is right. Although being psychically attuned might mean that he can somehow sense their presence.

That's not how it works or how it was explained. Demons exist outside of the timeline as human beings perceive time. Demons know what happens to them in the past, present and future. If you go find the LoS thread on here you'll see the lines that started all of this. Mortarion is talking to one of his sons and was surprised that the son didn't know about the Cadia falling or the surviving loyalist primarchs coming back to fight. Mortarion even tells him that it is because he doesn't perceive time like Mortarion does.

 

That's why this bit in the book was more than just the usual "When the Wolftime is here, and here's a checklist, and wow all the things are checked off so Russ MUST come back...right?" allusion or inference that GW or BL leaves like easter eggs to fans. This reads in the book like my telling you that I read a memo that you were getting promoted to senior manager and when I said grats, you were confused, until I told you I had read the memo you didn't have access to read. It is stated as an absolute definite thing that already happened in the life of the person with the secret knowledge.

Then why did Tzeentch have to create that greater daemon that could see the future but only one head could tell the truth? If they can all see the future than why don't daemons always win? Why do they need oracles and such?

 

 

As I understand it it's that a daemon knows everything that happens to him personally at any point in his existence (not counting weird warp logic where they can't access some knowledge) but Tzeentch created that one special Greate Daemon that knows ALL the things that happen at any point in the time to anyone, not just himself.

I like the lore of that Greater Daemon anyway ... every Tzeentch daemon is part of Tzeentch because "Tzeentch" is like the other chaos gods more a collection of feelings and principles and such ... and because he thought it was too dangerous to dive into that well himself he threw a greater daemon into it, which is a part of himself anyway, and now that this greater daemon survived and achieved that ability Tzeentch himself has that ability basically. Warp logic at its best. :D

[Ishagu]

Daemons probably see possible futures, but I've seen way to many Lord of Change who are supposed to know things get hoodwinked, surprised or outplayed to take what they say as absolute.

[Panzer]

Tzeentch is also the most whimsical of the chaos gods so who knows what exactly they see and why or why not they let themselves get defeated. It's all about playing the game, not winning the game for them. :P

[Bulwyf]

 

 

For arguments sake, Mortarion saying the loyalists are coming back could just be what he thinks. Doesn't mean he is right. Although being psychically attuned might mean that he can somehow sense their presence.

That's not how it works or how it was explained. Demons exist outside of the timeline as human beings perceive time. Demons know what happens to them in the past, present and future. If you go find the LoS thread on here you'll see the lines that started all of this. Mortarion is talking to one of his sons and was surprised that the son didn't know about the Cadia falling or the surviving loyalist primarchs coming back to fight. Mortarion even tells him that it is because he doesn't perceive time like Mortarion does.

 

That's why this bit in the book was more than just the usual "When the Wolftime is here, and here's a checklist, and wow all the things are checked off so Russ MUST come back...right?" allusion or inference that GW or BL leaves like easter eggs to fans. This reads in the book like my telling you that I read a memo that you were getting promoted to senior manager and when I said grats, you were confused, until I told you I had read the memo you didn't have access to read. It is stated as an absolute definite thing that already happened in the life of the person with the secret knowledge.

Then why did Tzeentch have to create that greater daemon that could see the future but only one head could tell the truth? If they can all see the future than why don't daemons always win? Why do they need oracles and such?

 

 

They can see their future and their past and present at any point they want to see it. It is like Dr. Manhattan from the Watchmen comics. They can only "know" the events they personally experienced. It isn't like one random nurgling demon knows everything that ever has or will happen for example.

 

The reason why demons don't always win is, firstly, plot armor and secondly just knowing the future doesn't mean you can change it. There was a BL story I read about a month or so ago where this one demon was trying to trick someone into fulfilling a different future but it still turned out the same way.

[Preliminary Bombardment]

Daemons probably see possible futures, but I've seen way to many Lord of Change who are supposed to know things get hoodwinked, surprised or outplayed to take what they say as absolute.

I think this is probably the interpretation I agree the most with. So in Master of Mankind, the Emperor talked about precognition and it's limitations. Demons are pure warp entities so are probably better at it but are also part of the warp so inherently unstable.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

is this available in paperback yet ?

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

 

For arguments sake, Mortarion saying the loyalists are coming back could just be what he thinks. Doesn't mean he is right. Although being psychically attuned might mean that he can somehow sense their presence.

That's not how it works or how it was explained. Demons exist outside of the timeline as human beings perceive time. Demons know what happens to them in the past, present and future. If you go find the LoS thread on here you'll see the lines that started all of this. Mortarion is talking to one of his sons and was surprised that the son didn't know about the Cadia falling or the surviving loyalist primarchs coming back to fight. Mortarion even tells him that it is because he doesn't perceive time like Mortarion does.

 

That's why this bit in the book was more than just the usual "When the Wolftime is here, and here's a checklist, and wow all the things are checked off so Russ MUST come back...right?" allusion or inference that GW or BL leaves like easter eggs to fans. This reads in the book like my telling you that I read a memo that you were getting promoted to senior manager and when I said grats, you were confused, until I told you I had read the memo you didn't have access to read. It is stated as an absolute definite thing that already happened in the life of the person with the secret knowledge.

Then why did Tzeentch have to create that greater daemon that could see the future but only one head could tell the truth? If they can all see the future than why don't daemons always win? Why do they need oracles and such?

 

 

Because daemons are metaphors made form. Lords of Change aren't really large humanoid birds with vulture-like heads, nor is Khorne a colossal figure in a suit of armour with a dog-like head, sitting on a throne of skulls. We interpret them as having intelligence, but they're just reflected emotions and concepts, interpreted in a way we can understand. Kairos is as he is because he's an archetype made daemonic flesh. If you want further proof, just try to reconcile the background of Kairos with the Bluescribes. The Bluescribes are searching the galaxy for every spell in existence, to reclaim Tzeentch's lost knowledge after he shattered his staff. Kairos is stated to know every spell in existence, and is a Lord of Change, and Tzeentch knows everything known by his Lords of Change. These two things shouldn't both be possible, as Kairos should invalidate the purpose of the Bluescribes, but the Bluescribes aren't actually doing all that, they're just the daemonic embodiment of the quest for knowledge, just as Kairos is influenced by our myths and folktales of the blind mystic who sees without sight.

[N1SB]

Thanks for this thread, and this subforum. With the Plot Moving Forward in 40k now, these are important discussions to have. I really agree with what you guys said and you really crystallised some points I was struggling with. I ran out of Likes.

 

My comments on Plague War: the previous entry, Dark Imperium, was something I recommended to others simply because it gives so much background on the 8th ed setting. Plague War is not as significant as its predecessor in this regard, and did not seem as interesting UNTIL the final chapter, at which point it made everything that lead up to it worth it.

 

That said, I had 1 major personal takeaway. This is just me, I'm not trying to push my perspective forward, but just something that greatly amused me. It's the teenage female character and it's this:

 

A daemon sees her and calls her "Anathema". And we know what others believe her to be.

 

But all I could think of was:

 

"Starchild/Sensei"

[Izlude]

I am about 1/3 ways in and I have to say I really like this one, in some ways better than the first. I will have more to say when I finish but so far:

 

1. Love that rogue trader (Sulymanya). She is refreshing and a good contrast to the Frater. 

 

2. Guilliman 's introspection is awesome, I loved that about the first one focusing on his musing and thoughts about the current state of affairs when compared to the HH times. It makes him almost human despite that he is "god-like."

 

3. Deathguard: Chris really hit it out of the park with Lords of Silence and his depiction of the DG. I won't say that this one is the same but it is really good, especially the "desperate housewife" like stuff with Typhus et al. The DG in general are well written and I like how the whole "we love having our guts hang out and boils...so should you." 

 

There isn't too much of the Primaris stuff which I honestly didn't like as much in the first one as I felt those fight scenes were more to say how awesome they are and that we should all buy them. 

 

Anyways look forward to the rest...hope to see some Mortarian and RG banter! Guy is definitely cracking my "tetrarch" of ADB, Abnett, Wraight and French. I have really enjoyed everything he has put out when Pharos came out (HH-related and TBA). 

Just updating what I put when I was 1/3 through the book. Just finished this one today and I really enjoyed it alot and it did not disappoint. To add what I had already put:

 

1. Titan battles: This was very well done and makes me look forward to Titandeath. I have to say I generally don't like titan fights (yes I did buy Adeptus titanicus...for the models:@). He really brought the princeps to life and the fights were engaging and interesting so kudoes to Guy for this one. Makes me confident Titandeath will be the same.

 

2. Galatan: I generally don't enjoy big battle fights as much since I am more into the character development but this one was good. I am still trying to imagine what the hell Galatan looks like...it almost sounds bigger than the IF Phalanx!

 

3. "Saint" stuff: This was a nice addition and I love the varying view points with the Sisters of Battle and RG. I have to say the end was quite surprising with RB's decision regarding the Frater and a particular sister.

 

4. Mortarion: Probably not much of a spoiler to say they don't really get into with each other (bummer) but it is set up for the third book where we know there will be a smack down. 

 

Overall was a fantastic read much like the first book. I think the third one will definitely have something big or shocking besides the obvious standstill fight RB and Mortarion will have. I am just surprised how productive and consistent Guy has been with his books. Not only is he fast, he is good! I put most of his works on par with the likes of French and company in my opinion. I have enjoyed pretty much everything he has put out related to HH and the new 41K stuff related to RG. 

[rookie40K]

Anyone have an estimate as to when this title will be released on audio? I check for it daily.

[Knockagh]

I’m waiting for it myself. No one seems to be able to work out the audio schedule