Unit of the Week: Reiver Squad

[Jolemai]

Welcome to the Blood Angels Unit of the Week Series!

Following the release of the 8^th edition Codex, there is no better time to discuss all the unique units we have access to. Each week a different unit will appear, with the idea being that we discuss how best to use that model on the battlefield.

Note, this isn't to lament any nerfs, etc, from previous editions; the rules are as they are so try to unlock its potential for those who wish to use them all the same. Similarly, this thread is only for using the option being discussed; it matters not if you feel something is a better choice as such comments aren't constructive to the topic and shall be removed.

Without further ado, here's this week's entry:

Reiver Squad

What are you thoughts here folks? How best would you use a Reiver Squad?

• To compliment a list, or to build a list around? Will the beta rules affect your list(s)?
• Will you be running multiples? MSU or full squads? Combat Squads?
• How are you buffing this unit?
• How are you making the most of the Terror Troops rule? Any combos of note for a leadership bomb?
• What weapon choice do you prefer and how much does it depend on the above choices?
• Are you having any success using Grav-chutes and/or Grapnel Launchers?
• Stratagems?

Over to you

[Jolemai]

Should you want your model on display here (or on another thread from the series), then submit a photo here please.

[Panzer]

Reiver ... urgh well yeah.

For all intends and purposes they act like worse Intercessors trying to do the job of Inceptors. They can be sliiiiightly better in melee but still not good.

That's my take on it.

 

If there's a way to use them properly the other two units can't fulfill I'd like to know it please. :D

So far I'm only really using them as bully unit for the opponents backfield but they do that job only mediocre if at all.

[Charlo]

I think they're a hidden gem, yet I've not got any true experience.

 

They deploy forward or deep strike with a very nice profile and some decent shooting. Stopping overwatch is a very powerful ability too. The lack of any kind of AP on their melee is what hurts the most, but can still put the hurt on things due to Red Thirst.

 

Super Scouts is how i'd classify them, also require little to no CP to do their job.

[Majkhel]

Does their Grapnel-launcher rule allow them to be activated on turn 1 after the Big FAQ2?

EDIT: I do not think so.
In that case I'd say that they unnecessarily take up an elite slot of which we already have plenty (and big hitters).
If they had forward deployment, like the Scouts, they would be much, much better IMO.

[Panzer]

Nop, they are still getting placed in reserves.

[Ishagu]

You can have a Reiver with a Bolt Carine for less points than an Intercessor with Auto Bolt Rifle.

 

The Sgt has 4 attacks with Bolt Carbine and Knife.

 

 

I run them often as the infantry in Vanguard detachments.

[Indefragable]

They're confused children.

 

No overwatch grenades would be excellent BA....if they could keep up with units you actually want to charge with. But w/ 6" movement, their grappling hooks/grav shoots not doing anything until Turn 2 after FAQ2, and their only Transport option being the abhorent Repulsor, they're not doing much.

 

2W and 2A ea + combat knives aren't bad for us, but see the point above about them not really being able to do anything.

 

That goes triple for the -1Ld to enemies thing...would be great to stack with Death Masks, but it's the same old lack of mobility story.

[Panzer]

You can have a Reiver with a Bolt Carine for less points than an Intercessor with Auto Bolt Rifle.

 

The Sgt has 4 attacks with Bolt Carbine and Knife.

 

 

I run them often as the infantry in Vanguard detachments.

 

Yeah exactly 1ppm cheaper if you don't take the grapnel launcher and/or the grav-chute. On the other hand they don't help filling a Battalion detachment and don't have ObSec.

 

An Intercessor Sgt has 4 attacks with any Bolt rifle variant + Chainsword as well plus has the option to trade one attack for a Power sword which is usually better anyway.

 

I guess they do have a purpose if you really want to run a Vanguard detachment and struggle to fill the slots otherwise but that's really niche.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Yeah lack of cheap transport option makes these guys, along with most primaris, limited in their usefulness. One thing I would love is a cheaper, smaller cousin to the repulsor, with razorback capacity as a transport for primaris. Without something to fix them though, rievers are a real head scratcher

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think they are actually quite good and you just need the grapnel launchers.

[Bonzi]

They had a use before the Turn 1 DS nerf, but now they're my biggest regret purchase. I desperately want to use them as backfield hunters but the are so ineffective/slow at it that they're nonviable.

[Panzer]

I think they are actually quite good and you just need the grapnel launchers.

 

Would be nice if you could elaborate on that a little bit. I don't see anything good about them.

[Blindhamster]

Combat blades and grapnel launchers, they actually do pretty good work for BA (the only ones that May be better are wolves)

 

They put out a good amount of attacks and get a fairly good number of wounds in for us.

 

Clever placement is important, they're a support melee unit not a hammer unit.

[Hintzy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am, but:

I believe Reivers can still do the "zero inch" charge with their grapnel launchers since they don't have the fly keyword. One of the bigger YouTube channels mentioned that. So until that gets FAQd they do have that going for them.

[Majkhel]

Looks like it, yes.

[Panzer]

That's ... actually correct. Interesting!

I'm fine with that tho considering they pay 2ppm for worse Jump Packs (1ppm if you're fine with coming in from a board edge instead of regular deep strike).

[Omega-soul]

Well, they are ok.

The best way to describe their role - scouts on steroids.

 

Scouts are really solid choice with knives - so reviers is the master version of it.

Wound to point ratio is almost identical, Reviers got 3+, which is nice combination to run in ruins for 2+.

Sell point ofcourse is offence part - 3 attack in CC is good enough. Plus - bolt pistol with ap-1 is also slightly better that regular.

 

There is also some freebies like -1 to ld, and terror grenade which is not game changer for reviers - but they are good once in a while.

 

So they are fitting role something like scouring force - it's not a death company ram, nor a sanguinary guard with banner tanks - but you can actually count on them - 16 attacks from 5 guys - is not bad + 5 shots with s4 ap-1.

And charge from reserves is their optimal strategy, which is better than other primaris - nor that expensive as inceptors.

And no - intercessors are not their rivals - they are shooty but count mostly on AP of their bolts, while reivers count on red thirst (better wounds) and volume of attacks.

[Panzer]

I don't think it makes too much sense to compare them with Scouts outside of fluff.

Unlike Scouts Reivers aren't Troops, aren't cheaper than their Tactical/Intercessor counterpart and can only deep strike instead of infiltrate. All the things that make Scouts a good option.

The comparison between Intercessors/Reiver and Tacticals/Assault Marines with nothing but chainswords and a bad second-hand Jump Packs would be more fitting crunch-wise imo.

[Omega-soul]

Fluff-wise they are even more uncomparable - shook troops versus recon units.

But you missed the point - there is nothing to compare with shooty versions any of these units. Not sniper scouts, not tactical, not inercessors. Their primary goal - shoot things.

Tactical cheaper - but at the same time - only 1 attack in close combat.

 

And here is the thing - imagine close combat attacks as ranged attacks - our weapon is knives knuckles etc. which we just need to deliver into enemy face.

And reivers have that ability - it's not that worse for what you intend to do - deliver knives into faces.

Our attacks is our shots - 3 attack from a reiver - it's like 3 shots. And then we have our Red thirst that makes all our attacks - better.

Imagine if say ultramarines had ability +1 to wound with bolters - that is HUGE bonus.

The only difference is that we have to deliver it.

And so our attacks is MUCH better than tactical\scout shooting - so it is already better to have reivers (not to mention that reivers actually have a better pistol than tactical bolter)

 

You say - but they have a second-hand jump packs - and I say they have a deep strike which tacticals and intercessors don't. And so reivers don't give a damn about range - they already in 9 inch range from enemy face. So they at least will have a decent s4 ap-1 shot. And if they "hit" (succesfully charge) they will destroy things better than boltguns.

 

And I do tested things. As a proud owner of (about) 60 scouts - I have a long time expirience delivering knives into faces. And the only real downside of scouts - is low attacks. Tacticals even worse at that.

And yeah reivers are not even troops. You could say - if you want to smash faces in close combat why not take assault marines or heck - even Death company. And you probably be right about it. 

But the thing is - reivers have uniqe combination of traits. with 100 points - they have 10 wounds - death company only 5, Reivers shoot with s4 ap-1, death company s4 ap0. Reivers got trror grenades and -1 to ld.

Reivers do not tend to be expensive - whereas DC will likely take even more points - for supportinng characters and equipment.

 

So they are just another type of unit with their own tactics - i'd say - autonomus tactics. And in that role they are comparable to scouts - that's why I compare them.

[Panzer]

Fluff-wise they are even more uncomparable - shook troops versus recon units.

But you missed the point - there is nothing to compare with shooty versions any of these units. Not sniper scouts, not tactical, not inercessors. Their primary goal - shoot things.

Tactical cheaper - but at the same time - only 1 attack in close combat.

 

And here is the thing - imagine close combat attacks as ranged attacks - our weapon is knives knuckles etc. which we just need to deliver into enemy face.

And reivers have that ability - it's not that worse for what you intend to do - deliver knives into faces.

Our attacks is our shots - 3 attack from a reiver - it's like 3 shots. And then we have our Red thirst that makes all our attacks - better.

Imagine if say ultramarines had ability +1 to wound with bolters - that is HUGE bonus.

The only difference is that we have to deliver it.

And so our attacks is MUCH better than tactical\scout shooting - so it is already better to have reivers (not to mention that reivers actually have a better pistol than tactical bolter)

 

You say - but they have a second-hand jump packs - and I say they have a deep strike which tacticals and intercessors don't. And so reivers don't give a damn about range - they already in 9 inch range from enemy face. So they at least will have a decent s4 ap-1 shot. And if they "hit" (succesfully charge) they will destroy things better than boltguns.

 

And I do tested things. As a proud owner of (about) 60 scouts - I have a long time expirience delivering knives into faces. And the only real downside of scouts - is low attacks. Tacticals even worse at that.

And yeah reivers are not even troops. You could say - if you want to smash faces in close combat why not take assault marines or heck - even Death company. And you probably be right about it. 

But the thing is - reivers have uniqe combination of traits. with 100 points - they have 10 wounds - death company only 5, Reivers shoot with s4 ap-1, death company s4 ap0. Reivers got trror grenades and -1 to ld.

Reivers do not tend to be expensive - whereas DC will likely take even more points - for supportinng characters and equipment.

 

So they are just another type of unit with their own tactics - i'd say - autonomus tactics. And in that role they are comparable to scouts - that's why I compare them.

 

I didn't compare them with actual shooty units. Intercessors are an allrounder unit that's slightly better at shooting than at melee. I compared them with units who they have to compete with. However I didn't JUDGE them based on their ability to shoot. That's the whole point of my post. So actually you are the one who missed my point.

 

Yes Intercessors are better at shooting than at melee, however that just highlights how lacking Reiver as melee unit are.

They have only one attack per model more, without any AP or bonus to strength even, and the pistol doesn't really count because most people will fall back anyway and then it's just a worse Bolt rifle. Their deep strike stuff is just a sad excuse for a Jump Pack as well since you are stuck with M6 and unless you play on a board with super dense terrain you won't get anything out of the hooks after the initial drop. However they pay for it of course so they are more expensive than Intercessors for barely any additional damage and unlike Intercessors they don't help you at all at getting CP or at holding objectives since they aren't Troops. Oh and Intrecessors can take a Powersword on the Sergeant which helps a LOT in melee.

 

The Tactical/Scout thing was just to show why Scouts are considered good compared to their rival unit in the Codex while Reivers are not compared to their rival unit in the Codex. I didn't even once compare Reivers with Scouts or Tacticals (tho if I would I'd take Scouts 10 out of 10 times over Reivers).

 

Also your shooting attack vs melee attack is a terrible comparison.

To get your melee attacks to work you have to deliver them and your opponent can attack back the same turn so you have to be careful what exactly you attack as well. You also put yourself much more in dange with your melee unit since you have to be closer to your opponents army and thus for more of his units in ideal shooting range (or in range in the first place).

While with your ranged attacks you have a MUCH better range of potential targets without putting yourself in harms way more than other units. Not to mention that ranged units are easier to keep within auras than melee units. 3 S4 AP0 shots per model is nice. 3 S4 AP0 attacks in okay-ish at best.

You talk about how Reiver can deliver the punch ... the punch is just a wet noodle with the amount of models you can throw at the enemy as Marine player and they really can't deliver it that well. If they could properly infiltrate so you have them on the board turn 1 and can still move before attempting to charge or if they had proper Jump Packs then it would be a whole different matter, but they don't. Yes they have deep strike intercessors don't have, but it's useless if you can't make the charge (which is unlikely to happen even with re-rolls) and your glorious S4 AP-1 pistol shot is just the same as the Intercessors 16"-30" Bolt rifle shot so no bonus points for that.

[dice4thedicegod]

If they cost a couple of points more but their knives were ap-1, I think they'd be a lot better.

[Blindhamster]

i think their knives should just be ap-1. even at their current cost it wouldnt be unreasonable tbh.

on the topic of charges, the key is to position them where a good portion of distance is vertical distance, as they still ignore that in the fight phase.

[Majkhel]

+1 to that.

[Panzer]

With AP-1 on their weapons I'd be MUCH happier with them, yeah.