Ishagu Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 If they knock 60+ points off every Centurion then we can look at them again fie sure. I think they should be around 55 points with weapons. They are super slow, have no invul and can only ride in the most expensive transports. These things have to be factored into the cost. A comparable unit is a Necron Destroyer. Same statlines but with fast movement and Fly. Can repair AND has a similar but better weapon to the grav cannon. Costs around 50 points. Using this as a comparison then Centurions should be much cheaper. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5179823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I agree Centurions should be much cheaper. Along side Marines weapons points. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5179985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gang_chong Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 Or maybe centurions have like 5 or 6 wounds each? If they’re cost like vehicles then they should have wounds like one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5180015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 I agree they should have 5 wounds each and also receive a modest points drop. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5180045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 They should have 8 wounds and toughness 7 lol A Dreadnought has those stats and the same weapons and costs the same lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5180054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 27, 2018 Share Posted October 27, 2018 5 wounds and cheaper base cost alongside a reduced points for weapons does it for me. Otherwise why take Dreads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5180066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I agree Centurions should be much cheaper. Along side Marines weapons points. Yeah, the BS tax on weapons is ridiculous. We already pay for that with the model, and the weight of fire meta really hits home that BS isn't worth as much as GW thinks it is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 i'm going to be brutally honest. in my own personal opinion, the centurions are the worst loyalist marine design since the aftershave landspeeder and yet even i am saddened on how GW made the centurions dead on arrival in 8th, no hope for this unit unless they drop it closer to what ishagu suggested but then that may encroach on primaris points territory unless those units get their points dropped too. and R.I.P box dreadnoughts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181485 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What really kills Centurions are the further limitations applied to them. They are the slowest unit in the book, have no access to cheap transport or deployment options that can help to move them up-field. They have no strategem support to give them a special ability. Look at the Ork Gorkanaught. It's a decent enough unit that you could take but it's bolstered by INCREDIBLE strategem support that isn't factored into it's cost. It's more deadly than a Knight in close combat and The Ork Codex allows you to deploy it in reserve, teleport it in and then make a 3D6+1" charge when it arrives. You can't target it. It will never be destroyed on turn 1 or 2. It will influence the opposing player in their deployment, movement, etc. Overall this is all brilliant, fun and competitive. Unless Centurions get some amazing strategems or new deployment options then the cost really should be reduced to around 20 points without wargear, on top of weapon point reduction. Even after this they wouldn't be overly competitive. It falls back to the whole codex needing to be redesigned. I remember after it dropped some oafs on Facebook were arguing against me that Centurions were costed correctly. One downside to GW interacting with everyone is that people who have no idea what they are talking about are often spamming them with requests and suggestions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What really kills Centurions are the further limitations applied to them. They are the slowest unit in the book, have no access to cheap transport or deployment options that can help to move them up-field. They have no strategem support to give them a special ability. That's only what kills the melee variant. The ranged variant is fine without those. They kinda want to be like the T'au Broadsides. Super armoured, super heavy weapon carrying, pseudo-infantry. Broadsides work without those things. Ranged Centurions don't because they are too expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I use them as a Grav Platform as it's the only unique weapon loadout they have. Deployment options would definitely help with this but also help to keep them alive. They are so, so easy to kill. For ranged punch I run Sicaran Venators. The only marine dedicated Tank unit that isn't rubbish lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I use them as a Grav Platform as it's the only unique weapon loadout they have. Deployment options would definitely help with this but also help to keep them alive. They are so, so easy to kill. For ranged punch I run Sicaran Venators. The only marine dedicated Tank unit that isn't rubbish lol. Let’s not be hasty, there’s still time for CA to nerf the venator too :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 There's an observation I hadn't seen explicitly written down: Aggressors and Centurions are basically the same damn thing. Or rather: they're competing for the same niche. Small unit, punishing damage output, pain in the arsenal to shift about the battlefield, but if positioned well (or well supported), then moving them shouldn't be much of an issue. But as long as one is better at doing "damage output & tanking" than the other, then there's no chance of competition. In that fashion: maybe we rewind. The models are what they are, and their weapons are only really "alterable" within a few dimensions - special profiles, or synergy with some new strategems. To what end? What would Centurions ever do that isn't done by Dreadnoughts or Aggressors or tanks? Is there a plausible tabletop niche there I don't see? Obviously making them cheaper and a viable choice in general would be nice e.g. I'm not overly penalised because {I don't like Primaris;I love Centurion models;I don't like Dreadnoughts;...}. But it'd be better if they offered something not really achieved elsewhere in the list? Right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Centurions do function as anti elite infantry. If they were correctly costed and supported there's appeal to firing 20+ grav cannon shots and loads of bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
robofish7591 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Centurions would be a great unit if they weren't so expensive. They have a good save, they have a decent number of wounds, and they have good guns... but they cost way too much when you start comparing them to other units. They performed decently the few times I have taken them, but I really could have been running other units that would have performed just as well or even better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 What if centurains got buffed laterally? along with a point reduction I know this is going to sound odd but. What if Centurion became a upgrade option for the tactical squad heavy weapons model? that way they dont fill a heavy/elite slot Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181831 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 You mean like Space Wolves sergeants being able to take Terminator armour? That won't happen. Only Space Wolves and Deathwatch are using such mixed squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181836 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Not taking elite slots isn't worth anything as you have so many and can bring a vanguard detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Ah, but Triszin's idea is a neat one AND mixed units is a thing. It's messy, from a certain point of view, but doable because it's being done. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I love the idea of adding Centurions to Marine units with a points drop of course. Change wounds to 4 and lower save to 3+, make them affordable and Tactical squads would love them. Hell give them T4 and a 2+ save to make it easier to work. Assault Centurions are a little harder to work but then maybe GW should release a new transport for them... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5181978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Reroll charge? There are two different problems. Assault v. Shoot. Shoot: Stabilized platform. If this unit does not move, add 6" to weapon range? Assault: Assault platform: Bounding leap forward. Reroll charge ranges. Or add 3" to charge range. Or implacable advance: this unit ignores terrain when moving or charging Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5182017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Adding them to a Tac squad just means you lock the unit out of transports, reduce the mobility and make them more of a target. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5182021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Assault Centurions are actually surprisingly good... not competitive but much better than the tactical Centurion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5182042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Adding them to a Tac squad just means you lock the unit out of transports, reduce the mobility and make them more of a target. Thing is it's a potential option. If you want to use a transport then don't add a Centurion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5182221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Adding them to a Tac squad just means you lock the unit out of transports, reduce the mobility and make them more of a target. If mobility is wanted, then don't add them to a Tac squad. Same for Space Wolves ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/350762-are-centurions-a-viable-option/page/2/#findComment-5182223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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