Seige of Terra series news

[Fire Golem]

Just watched the John French interview, and I am really excited for this. Sounds similar in scope to Slaves to Darkness (big cast, lots happening) and he handled that really well, it’s one of my favourite Heresy books, so I have high hopes for this.

[m0nolith]

Please make Sanguinius actually cool in this series.

The main HH series left a lot to be desired :( 

[b1soul]

You know...I woulda in a million years never thought that Jaghatai Khan and the WS would outshine Sang and the BA in the HH series.

 

I do hope ADB does the Eternity Wall to give Sang the epic-ness he deserves

[Stofficus]

If the last book doesn't begin with, "I was there the day Horus killed the Emperor" I'll be sorely dissapointed. 

 

Remains one of the best hooks I've read. 

[A D-B]

I saw someone on another forum surprised that Dan is finishing it. But I've threatened actual, legal-ramificationed violence on anyone who tried to stop Dan doing the last book (but it's never even come up; it was always going to be Dan), and we've been saying for years "It needs to be Dan", so that sort of surprised me.

 

God, it's good to have some Siege info finally getting out there. The Siege meetings have been on another level of teamwork, enthusiasm, lore-talk, and idea-sharing. I've always danced lightly around my HH enthusiasm, as it's gone in some directions I've not enjoyed and along paths I'd rather we never explored (always the way with something on this scale), but the Siege is going to be absolute class.

 

 

You know...I woulda in a million years never thought that Jaghatai Khan and the WS would outshine Sang and the BA in the HH series.

I do hope ADB does the Eternity Wall to give Sang the epic-ness he deserves

 

On that note (not what book I'm doing, I mean on the note of the name) that's one of the problems we had. Because people are already getting their proper nouns mixed up: the Eternity Wall Spaceport has Sanguinius facing but not fighting Angron, just refusing surrender terms; the Eternity Gate (also called the Ultimate Gate) is a completely different thing elsewhere, and is where Sanguinius defends the Emperor's throne room. 

 

So we devoted a bit of time to "Which name are we changing here, because people will get lost."

[Medjugorje]

Please make Sanguinius actually cool in this series.

The main HH series left a lot to be desired

 

as I hate the Black Templar stories from Guy Haley ...  For this job we need him. Dante ist such an fantastic Book.  GODLIKE

[pandion40]

Please make Sanguinius actually cool in this series.

The main HH series left a lot to be desired :(

 

This! Please god this is the main thing I want from the siege, but I’d also apply it to the Blood Angel legion as a whole. We’re frequently told by marines and Primarchs how awesome he is but it’s all second hand we’ve not been shown it.

 

The problem I can see is Sanguinius biggest moment in the siege other than facing Horus is defeating Ka'Bandha and breaking him over his knee, trouble is he’s already squashed him like a bug once. So seeing him having an epic close run fight with him would be weird, whilst seeing him squash him like a bug again would be preferable it’s unsatisfying. I’m Just hoping whoever writes that scene gets it to work well.

[Roomsky]

If I may inquire, because I believe the last time the point was raised we didn't reach any hard conclusions, what exactly is Sanguinius lacking in everybody's eyes? Or rather, what could the siege show that would rectify your opinions of him being a bit lame.

 

The fact that he has, so far:

-Soloed 2 Greater Daemons in rapid succession with relative ease (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

-Fought on even footing with another primarch while said primarch was wearing power armor, and Sanguinius may as well have been naked (a feat unmatched by all of his peers sans Vulkan)

-Fought off an uncountable amount of daemons in 3 dimensions rather than simply 2 in a completely unconfined space (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

 

It's my opinion Sangy's had a poor showing because apparently he can just do anything, he strikes me as uninteresting because he appears to be completely invincible. He has absolutely been shown as superior to all of his brothers, unmatched in both combat and moral fortitude. The only angle I do comprehend is that he's kind of boring. I intend no sarcasm when I say I'd appreciate if someone enlightened me on his apparent lack of badassery.

[Marshal Rohr]

All demons are fought in three dimensions.

[Medjugorje]

If I may inquire, because I believe the last time the point was raised we didn't reach any hard conclusions, what exactly is Sanguinius lacking in everybody's eyes? Or rather, what could the siege show that would rectify your opinions of him being a bit lame.

 

The fact that he has, so far:

-Soloed 2 Greater Daemons in rapid succession with relative ease (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

-Fought on even footing with another primarch while said primarch was wearing power armor, and Sanguinius may as well have been naked (a feat unmatched by all of his peers sans Vulkan)

-Fought off an uncountable amount of daemons in 3 dimensions rather than simply 2 in a completely unconfined space (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

 

It's my opinion Sangy's had a poor showing because apparently he can just do anything, he strikes me as uninteresting because he appears to be completely invincible. He has absolutely been shown as superior to all of his brothers, unmatched in both combat and moral fortitude. The only angle I do comprehend is that he's kind of boring. I intend no sarcasm when I say I'd appreciate if someone enlightened me on his apparent lack of badassery.

The main problem was his personality. He seems  just occumpied with himself - just focused on his visions and never angry as he should be.  Same problem with Sigismund in latest versions. I hope Sanguinius is written like Sigismund against Abbadon - knowing about his end but loyal and absolut resolut in fighting. 

[Tymell]

I can only speak for myself, but for me, it's not so much a lack of feats on his part as it is his attitude. Specifically, I feel like his character is often too heavily defined by the angst he suffers from.

 

I'm not suggesting that Sanguinius shouldn't have that as part of his character: he's supposed to be one of the most emotive and compassionate of the Primarchs, so it makes sense that he would feel and suffer more than most, especially in a turbulent time like the Heresy. I just feel like too many of his portrayals focus solely on him being constantly sorrowful and pained, always depressed at the future or the curse he passed on to his sons, etc.

 

It just gets a bit much, and while that is -part- of his character, he's also supposed to be a legendary warrior, masterful general and superbly charismatic. Those are the aspects I want to see more of.

[aa.logan]

A slight excursion from the talk of actual stories, authors and plots to consider the most important thing- books looking pretty on shelves.

 

Surely the most obvious numbering solution is to go for Roman numerals for the Siege of Terra series, allowing new numbered books to be added to the Heresy numbered series if needed...

[Fire Golem]

A slight excursion from the talk of actual stories, authors and plots to consider the most important thing- books looking pretty on shelves.

Surely the most obvious numbering solution is to go for Roman numerals for the Siege of Terra series, allowing new numbered books to be added to the Heresy numbered series if needed...

The Heresy series are numbered with Roman numerals on the spine already, I think.

[pandion40]

If I may inquire, because I believe the last time the point was raised we didn't reach any hard conclusions, what exactly is Sanguinius lacking in everybody's eyes? Or rather, what could the siege show that would rectify your opinions of him being a bit lame.

 

The fact that he has, so far:

-Soloed 2 Greater Daemons in rapid succession with relative ease (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

-Fought on even footing with another primarch while said primarch was wearing power armor, and Sanguinius may as well have been naked (a feat unmatched by all of his peers sans Vulkan)

-Fought off an uncountable amount of daemons in 3 dimensions rather than simply 2 in a completely unconfined space (a feat unmatched by all of his peers)

 

It's my opinion Sangy's had a poor showing because apparently he can just do anything, he strikes me as uninteresting because he appears to be completely invincible. He has absolutely been shown as superior to all of his brothers, unmatched in both combat and moral fortitude. The only angle I do comprehend is that he's kind of boring. I intend no sarcasm when I say I'd appreciate if someone enlightened me on his apparent lack of badassery.

 

I agree with Tymell but I also think he’s suffered partly because the books he’s been in have been a bit muh. Fear to Tread tried to do way to much in one book in my opinion and ended up ok at best because of it, then he gets stuck in that whole turgid mess called the imperium Secundus, I’m not a fan of this arc especially how Sanguinius and the BA were treated in it. I actually quit reading the Heresy novels partly because of this plot so I haven’t read the end of Imperium Secundus yet as I’m still doing a reread of earlier novels to catch up.

 

What I want to see is Sanguinius totally unleashed with no doubts, no second guessing or feeling sorry for himself. I want him to accept the fate of him and his sons and decide if he’s going to die he’ll make sure he gives both the traitors and loyalists a performance to remember him by.

[aa.logan]

 

A slight excursion from the talk of actual stories, authors and plots to consider the most important thing- books looking pretty on shelves.

Surely the most obvious numbering solution is to go for Roman numerals for the Siege of Terra series, allowing new numbered books to be added to the Heresy numbered series if needed...

The Heresy series are numbered with Roman numerals on the spine already, I think.

Ah. I’m too tight to buy hardbacks.

 

Arabic numbers then for the Siege...

[carlisimo]

Pandion40, based on what you think about its first entry, I’d skip the Imperium Secundus arc entirely, along with some others, and skip to the White Scars arc, Praetorian of Dorn, The Master of Mankind, Tallarn, Corax (Weregeld, at least), the anthologies… those have been good.

 

I think Sanguinius was still better in Fear to Tread than in his more recent depictions. My issue with that book was how similar the Blood Angels were to their M41 selves, even though they should be one of the most-changed loyalist legions. Also, some of the key Blood Angels characters seemed a little indistinct. But at least we got Sanguinius as a father and fighter. What we haven’t seen is Sanguinius as a strategic leader or someone capable of managing his brothers - i.e. any indication that he’d be a good Warmaster. If he leaves the planning to Dorn, I’ll still feel that way after the Siege.

[Fire Golem]

Pandion40, based on what you think about its first entry, I’d skip the Imperium Secundus arc entirely, along with some others, and skip to the White Scars arc, Praetorian of Dorn, The Master of Mankind, Tallarn, Corax (Weregeld, at least), the anthologies… those have been good.

I think Sanguinius was still better in Fear to Tread than in his more recent depictions. My issue with that book was how similar the Blood Angels were to their M41 selves, even though they should be one of the most-changed loyalist legions. Also, some of the key Blood Angels characters seemed a little indistinct. But at least we got Sanguinius as a father and fighter. What we haven’t seen is Sanguinius as a strategic leader or someone capable of managing his brothers - i.e. any indication that he’d be a good Warmaster. If he leaves the planning to Dorn, I’ll still feel that way after the Siege.

I think Sanguinius is in charge at Beta-Garmon, so we might see a little bit more of him as a strategist in Titan Death (although probably not loads).

[Fedor]

I just want Sanguinius to be portrayed well and with depth. I could be wrong, but the feel i get from some areas of the fandom online especially the likes of 40klore on reddit is a lot want this uber-primarch who is the best of all the brothers in damn near every way(which i find totally uninteresting) and have got a bit pissed that we've been given someone with doubts and flaws.

 

 though i do agree with Tymell's post too, I just hope the way we get to see the legendary warrior and charismatic leader in the upcoming books doesn't conform much to that side of the fanbase i mentioned.

[pandion40]

Thanks for the advice carlisimo and I agree that as much as I find Fear to Tread ok at best it was the best depiction of Sanguinius I read.

The problem with it for me was Swallow tried to introduce the 30M Blood Angel Legion, 4 of the top ranking characters, his own characters that the story followed and cover one of the big Heresy events in one book, not to mention some very unwelcome space wolves.

 

My worry is that unless Sanguinius, Azkaellon, Raldoron and Amit received some decent character development after I stopped reading, but what I’ve heard is not encouraging, then the siege books are going to continue to sideline these characters and the BA legion as a whole because all the other legions on terra have far better developed and more interesting characters than these very cardboard and underdeveloped Blood Angels. I’m also worried Swallow is going to write the book that focuses on the BA the most as in my opinion while I’ve liked some of his books I’ve yet to see a genuinely good BA book from him and he’s had plenty of chances, and if rumours are true GW is bafflingly giving him the Sanguinius Primarch book.

 

I really hope the BA Heresy book from forgeworld comes out soon and is a masterpiece that inspires some of the writers to put some time and effort into the BA and Sanguinius because while I like many chapters from 40k and legions in 30k the BA were my first love.

[karden00]

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion other than wow, I’m excited.

I was in a real break from anything 40k related and only got interested in the fluff when Know No Fear came out and then started getting back into it, and I can honestly say this has me pretty stoked

[m0nolith]

 

Please make Sanguinius actually cool in this series.

The main HH series left a lot to be desired

 

as I hate the Black Templar stories from Guy Haley ...  For this job we need him. Dante ist such an fantastic Book.  GODLIKE

 

See, I think that both Haley's BA books were just ok, average.

His Perturabo book on the other hand was incredible!

[Medjugorje]

I can only speak for myself, but for me, it's not so much a lack of feats on his part as it is his attitude. Specifically, I feel like his character is often too heavily defined by the angst he suffers from.

 

I'm not suggesting that Sanguinius shouldn't have that as part of his character: he's supposed to be one of the most emotive and compassionate of the Primarchs, so it makes sense that he would feel and suffer more than most, especially in a turbulent time like the Heresy. I just feel like too many of his portrayals focus solely on him being constantly sorrowful and pained, always depressed at the future or the curse he passed on to his sons, etc.

 

It just gets a bit much, and while that is -part- of his character, he's also supposed to be a legendary warrior, masterful general and superbly charismatic. Those are the aspects I want to see more of.

 

THIS

 

What I want to see is Sanguinius totally unleashed with no doubts, no second guessing or feeling sorry for himself. I want him to accept the fate of him and his sons and decide if he’s going to die he’ll make sure he gives both the traitors and loyalists a performance to remember him by.

 

 

I think we are all with you

 

 

Please make Sanguinius actually cool in this series.

The main HH series left a lot to be desired

 

as I hate the Black Templar stories from Guy Haley ...  For this job we need him. Dante ist such an fantastic Book.  GODLIKE

 

See, I think that both Haley's BA books were just ok, average.

His Perturabo book on the other hand was incredible!

 

dont read it yet. But i will do soon

[b1soul]

I generallt love Abnett's prose and dialogue. I do think his "tone", if you will, has more of a succinct, punchy modern sensibility. He's not as Homeric. I just hope Dan goes for full-blown epic-ness with the HH grand finale.

[Indefragable]

To many fraters to quote, so I'll just lump everything together.

 

Hidden Content

Unfortunately Raldoran, Amit, and Azkaellon get minimal exposition in any numbered books outside of Fear to Tread. There are some short stories/audio dramas (Virtues of the Sons, Sins of the Father, The Herald of Sanguinius) that dive into Azkaellon and Amit fairly well (and juxtapose the whole whole Angels and Daemons theme). Otherwise you pretty much only ever see Azkaellon and he is reduced to some caricture of "worried bodyguard" whose sole existence is for warning a freaking Primarch that a warzone might be dangerous. Raldoron especially is non existent in any work outside Fear to Tread and the only occasional literal one sentence cameo in something like Thousand Sons or First Heretic.

 

(yea yea, I gripe about this all the time everywhere)

 

It just surprises me how conspicuously absent the BA, especially supporting characters like Raldoron, are throughout so much of the HH series. And I mean mentions of them at all. And when they do appear, even in a story like Ruinstorm that has so much screen time with Sanguinius (for better and worse), his supporting cast is offscreen almost the whole time. We get pages of Ultramarines no-name sgt 41345, but nothing about the freaking First Captain of the IX Legion. Same thing with most of the Imperium Secundus arc. Where the feth is the entire IX Legion during that entire episode? We see Sanginuis sitting around but apparently his entire Legion was in the locker room?

 

 

In general, I want to see all the characters we know and love really shine. Path of Heaven is a great blueprint for showing all factions can get their moment in the sun at the same time. The actions, decisions, and weight of each feels real and proportional. Not everything has to be nor should be ROLFSTOMP OMG Loyalists 5-0 in duels ROFL #traitorssuck or any of that stuff.

 

Putting fanboy hat aside, I think it would make sense if groups we have not seen too much of (IF and BA especially) get a higher proportion of screen time....but only if it justifies the best narrative possible.

[grailkeeper]

 

So we devoted a bit of time to "Which name are we changing here, because people will get lost."

 

Seems to me a map at the start of the books might help.

 

It would have been nice to have Bill King write a book, if only for nostalgia.

 

Personally out of this series I'd love to have the Emperor give the order that Land Raiders be reserved for Marines only and Dorn give his famous quote "Give me a hundred Space Marines. Or failing that give me a thousand other troops", perhaps before teleporting onto the Vengeful Spirit.