keeblerartillery Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Mort - you should check out neonmoles thread on his recent ITC excursion. He took a single, 2k BN of primaris and took 9th out of 122. I asked him for some more in depth analysis of his tactics and list construction, but I think you could glean a lot from that as well. I don't think he had a single unit of your "always include" other than a single smash captain and went toe to toe with some of the best "meta" lists there are. Things to consider. It might not be as dire as we believe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 Thing is that neonmole was playing a game of target saturation. All his infantry was either characters hiding behind those or a few Intercessors riding in his Repulsors. It's basically like AM taking lots of LR tanks. This reduces the efficiency of lots of the enemy guns until you have your army in position and meanwhile you have enough firepower to deal heavy blows to the enemy list. You could probably do something similar with lots of Land Raiders or Razorbacks however those have the problem of not having FLY like the Repulsor so the enemy could deal with them much easier and you wouldn't be as mobile. I was actually aiming to build a similar list as neonmole but with only two Repulsors instead of three. In my mind it was supposed to be an annoying (due having no soft targets) but not overly competetive list ... imagine my surprise about his experience with such a list. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 Leviathan arrived today!! whoop whoop!!! Available arms are the grav flux and the storm cannon ( i think its called?) array. So, good mix!!! <3 Keen to see how it plays out and will be testing this in the near future: Smashy Cap Libby Dread 5 Scouts - HB 5 Scouts - HB 5 Tac - Lascan Sang Ancient - banner 10 VanVets - 6 shields, Axe, Hammer Sicaran Venator - HB Sponsons 5 Scout Bikers 5 Dev - Las, ML, HB, Cherub 5 Dev - Las, Las, HB, Cherub Leviathan - HKM, Grav, Storm. Razor - TLAC Razor - TLLC (only 6 or 7 CP - depending if i go with VIsions on smashy - and not quite as "BA" as I'd like- but its different from before, and i think there could be potential there so I will check it out. ) Will keep all posted. Also, side note- playing around with army builder I noticed the difference between the Sicaran Venator and the Deimos Las Vindy :/ They're 5 points within each other with very comparable weapons. Basic important profile though is T7, W14, 3+ vs T8, W12, 3+ Im actually learning towards the Vindy, tbh. Thoughts? I like that the venator has the move and shoot unabated, but the opp for such steady damage (straight 6 and 2 shots) and potential 4 shots from the vindy is very, very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I'll pray that your Leviathan won't have the first game syndrom. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Thoughts? I like that the venator has the move and shoot unabated, but the opp for such steady damage (straight 6 and 2 shots) and potential 4 shots from the vindy is very, very good. Venator can move 14" and put out 5 shots a turn at BS3+ Vindi has to remain still to get 4 shots. Vindis max damage is capped at 12 (4 shot volley or 2 shot overcharge) Venator's max damage is capped at 30 (5x shots with D6 damage each) To me, it's the venator each time, hands down. If the laser destroyer had the old/heresy rules, 1 shot, 2 if still, 3 with overcharge, with increasing ap and damage respectively, it might be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 Thoughts? I like that the venator has the move and shoot unabated, but the opp for such steady damage (straight 6 and 2 shots) and potential 4 shots from the vindy is very, very good. Venator can move 14" and put out 5 shots a turn at BS3+ Vindi has to remain still to get 4 shots. Vindis max damage is capped at 12 (4 shot volley or 2 shot overcharge) Venator's max damage is capped at 30 (5x shots with D6 damage each) To me, it's the venator each time, hands down. If the laser destroyer had the old/heresy rules, 1 shot, 2 if still, 3 with overcharge, with increasing ap and damage respectively, it might be better. I wouldnt be comparing the extra sponsons though- its 50 points more. So, for me its the straight comparison of the main weapons and the platform. You dont rate the T8 will make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 T8 over T7 is quite impotant against Armiger and T'au anti-tank (S7 and S8) but useless against Lascannons and the big Knights. I guess it depends on what you'll be facing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Thoughts? I like that the venator has the move and shoot unabated, but the opp for such steady damage (straight 6 and 2 shots) and potential 4 shots from the vindy is very, very good. Venator can move 14" and put out 5 shots a turn at BS3+ Vindi has to remain still to get 4 shots. Vindis max damage is capped at 12 (4 shot volley or 2 shot overcharge) Venator's max damage is capped at 30 (5x shots with D6 damage each) To me, it's the venator each time, hands down. If the laser destroyer had the old/heresy rules, 1 shot, 2 if still, 3 with overcharge, with increasing ap and damage respectively, it might be better. I wouldnt be comparing the extra sponsons though- its 50 points more. So, for me its the straight comparison of the main weapons and the platform. You dont rate the T8 will make a difference? Maybe I'm still in a 3rd edition mindset, but concentrating firepower was always more efficient. With 2 additional lascannons that don't suffer from the move and fire penalty, you can swap the lascannon tac squad for something else maybe? This is even before you get to the free heavy bolter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeresyBeliever Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 I have found Intercessors top quality and much better than scouts A razor back with twin assault cannons is more points effective than a Ball pred too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 I have found Intercessors top quality and much better than scouts A razor back with twin assault cannons is more points effective than a Ball pred too They come in at 25 points more per squad and cant set up to push back :/ But, yeah, they are solid. I will try work in a core of them some time. The Baal Pred is a complete waste of space in 8th for me. ****** Thanks for the thoughts an ideas so far all. Got another idea for something different that im ITCHING to try out. Looks like this: Smashy Cap Lieutenant - Claw, MC Bolter 5x Scouts- HB 6x Scouts -HB, Axe 5x Tac - Hvy Flamer, Cmbi-Melta, Sword 10x VanVet - Sword, Axe, Hammer, 6 Shields Sang Ancient - Banner Sicaran Venator - HBSS Sicaran Battle Tank - HBSS 5x Dev - LC, LC, HB , Cherub 5x Dev - LC, ML, HB, Cherub Deimos Laser Vindicator 6x Scout Bikers - Axe Razorback - TLAC Razorback - TLAC Really more my play style, loads of dakka, loads of mobility but low on CP with only 6 (possibly 7 if I forego Visions). But an exciting list to play. Not sure if it has staying power, and not sure if I'm trying to play a game-style I cant win (ie: shooty). My thinking is, it's shooty/mobile/assaulty which puts it into a slightly different ball park. WIll have to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 I think Intercessors are solid but I would never say they are better than Scouts. Infiltration is just too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 As long as you're getting stuck in the list should fare well. The amount of armour is pretty good with some solid dakka and mortal wounds behind it. I'd definitely focus your mid range forces (Scouts/ Bikes/ Tacs/ Razors) to a single point and smash through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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