CA Speculations

[DanPesci]

I much prefer two functional batallions over using a brigade when designing lists. I don't think the few extra command points are worth it.

 

These point reductions are great, and much more substantial than I expected - we might be the faction that got the best of CA overall. Still, I can't picture Admech being competitive as a monofaction in the foreseeable future. With a few knight allies, or as a part of the dreaded "soup" on the other hand... I'm really looking forward to getting to try this out.

 

Totally agree on the dual battalion thing....although am probably slightly biased as I own zero admech fast attack.

 

 

Very happy with the points adjustments. I play skitarii heavy with servitor support (that hasn't really seen the table recently), so cheaper HQs and servitors is good for me.

 

The drop for infiltrators is also very welcome...as I guess is ruststalkers...but I still just don't like their rules? Maybe now they are cheaper they can work as a cheap counter attack unit that stays hidden in your own lines?

 

Areqebus dropping by 10 points is also really nice. May have to start taking more than the 4 I already do

[Gaz1858]

How many points is a rustslaker unit now? I couldnt work it out lol.

 

I think Infiltrators are 90 yeh?

[DanPesci]

From what i can figure out doing some quick maths and battlescribe lookup

 

infiltators = 90 for 5 

 

ruststalkers = 75 for chordclaw + razors??

[BolterZorro]

Is it worth taking 10 infiltrators?

1. for a deep strike surprise for your opponent?

2. for a end game objective/enemy unit traker?

3. What else?

 

Is it etter to get 2*5 or 1*10?

[Perry]

Is it worth taking 10 infiltrators?

1. for a deep strike surprise for your opponent?

2. for a end game objective/enemy unit traker?

3. What else?

 

Is it etter to get 2*5 or 1*10?

Wrath of Mars if you play that Fraction. That's A lot of shots to pour into a backfield unit

[synthaside]

The functional brigade could be made miles better for not many more points, 750 for spending on an allied Knight detachment, or in my case a metric pile of dragoons or drills ;-) 

My Full brigade which im looking to take to heat 4 runs at 1657 , i dont know of any points changes to termites or greyfax .. but with luck i can fit one and her inside  1750

 

2*1 TPEs  1 TPD - volk , stub

3* 10 Hoplites  

3*5 Rangers 

3*5 Vanguard 

 

3  Ironstriders with twin Las 

3  Dragoons with taser 

3  Dragoons with taser 

 

2* Neutron Onagers 

1* Icarus   

[BolterZorro]

Is Cawl good now at his new points?

[Ishagu]

Is Cawl good now at his new points?

Heck yes. Cawl and 4 Dakka Kastelan Robots is a staple of my list.

[BolterZorro]

I like the kataphron miniature. With new points change and spe detachment How many is optimum? 1 unit? 2 units? and how many per unit? 3 ? 6? 9?

[Vel'Cona]

Is Cawl good now at his new points?

 

Did GW go forward with the blanket nerfs to -1 to hit >12" "army rules" (a la Stygies)?  If so, that's another reason to lean back on Mars since it's probably your next best option if Stygies is off the table.

[Heliomanes]

I think the biggest problem with the brigade is how it incentivises use of MSU-versions of our fast attack and elite choices in particular, which in turn leave you with a worse performance from them. Dragoons and Balistarii, for instance, get a lot of value out of the +2 to hit stratagems - but you can only use it once per turn/phase, so you'll get a lot more out of buffing a big unit rather than having a few small, unbuffed ones running around.

Same with my Hoplites. A 20 man squad of those, with "Acquisition at all costs" active can become a much larger priority than their weight class would necessarily predict.

Still, I see your point Synthaside. Especially if you have to use the typical max 3 detachments, and want to bring Admech, a Knight, and a small Inquisition or Assassin detachment for anti psyker support.

[Stray]

 

Is Cawl good now at his new points?

 

Did GW go forward with the blanket nerfs to -1 to hit >12" "army rules" (a la Stygies)?  If so, that's another reason to lean back on Mars since it's probably your next best option if Stygies is off the table.

 

 

I haven't seen a verifiable source to confirm this one way or another as yet, though I too have seen a fair few people speaking about the change as though it were fact...

 

I'd be interested to hear either way.

[BolterZorro]

The video from French Wargame Studio with the actual book in hand didn't mention it either because it simply seems that it was a rumor and there is no change at all.

[Heliomanes]

Beta testers have also said that the removal of -1 always was a faulty rumour. So Stygies still lives. I'd expect a new faq/patch soon though, since they'll have to adjust the Castelan knight and soup in general - and Chapter Approved was apparently sent to the printer months ago, so it couldn't anticipate the most pressing issues, balance-wise.

[BolterZorro]

BTW, I'm interested by the new Admech battleforce, starting with 2 boxes. (I already have a bunch of enginseers, dominus and skitarii).

What is your advice about expending this force in PURE admech (as I already have several knights also)?

 

I'm looking at kataphron. Ar they interesting now or should I go to more kastelan? 

[synthaside]

It is confirmed that there was no blanket nerf to -'s to hit ... 

 

 

I think the biggest problem with the brigade is how it incentivises use of MSU-versions of our fast attack and elite choices in particular, which in turn leave you with a worse performance from them. Dragoons and Balistarii, for instance, get a lot of value out of the +2 to hit stratagems - but you can only use it once per turn/phase, so you'll get a lot more out of buffing a big unit rather than having a few small, unbuffed ones running around.

Same with my Hoplites. A 20 man squad of those, with "Acquisition at all costs" active can become a much larger priority than their weight class would necessarily predict.

Still, I see your point Synthaside. Especially if you have to use the typical max 3 detachments, and want to bring Admech, a Knight, and a small Inquisition or Assassin detachment for anti psyker support.

Yes, its a bit of a problem ... but I'm happy enough with an 10 - 11 man hoplite blob ... I find 20 too much of an inviting target having two 10 man units working together rather than 1 20 ... gives me 2 chances to make that 9-inch charge role, that and morale is not our friend .

Again i've found the magic number three to be what works for our fast attack choices as well ... , while yes a 6 man team is fun and gets better utility .... forcing a player to chose which of my two units he is shooting/charging even if it does cost me an extra CP for the advance move ... works a lot better than having a larger unit.

if people are looking for a cheap brigade I could actually see taking datasmith's now the power fist and gamma pistol prices have gone down ... I dont really use Robots as im not mars or using robots but a 39 point 2 damage strength 6 plasma pistol and power fist
on a  4 wound terminator aint bad ... especially if you can change protocol.

 

[DeStinyFiSh]

I think the biggest problem with the brigade is how it incentivises use of MSU-versions of our fast attack and elite choices in particular, which in turn leave you with a worse performance from them. Dragoons and Balistarii, for instance, get a lot of value out of the +2 to hit stratagems - but you can only use it once per turn/phase, so you'll get a lot more out of buffing a big unit rather than having a few small, unbuffed ones running around.

 

Same with my Hoplites. A 20 man squad of those, with "Acquisition at all costs" active can become a much larger priority than their weight class would necessarily predict.

 

Still, I see your point Synthaside. Especially if you have to use the typical max 3 detachments, and want to bring Admech, a Knight, and a small Inquisition or Assassin detachment for anti psyker support.

 

I get your point and I agree to a certain degree, but with 840 points for the minimum requirement you have some points to build a proper list around it as you wish.

[Heliomanes]

I agree that it is significantly less of a burden than before, Destinyfish. And it certainly leaves quite a few points to build around. Still, I think the two batallions come out on top. The HQs are less of a tax now after CA, and troops with objective secured are quite good. You'll need them for bubblewrap and objective grabbing anyway.

The point on using datasmiths is a good one, if you want to fill out elite slots. They are very good for their cost, and will compliment lists that use drills nicely.

I agree on Dragoons. 3 or 4 seem optimal. You're supposed to move them, after all. Balistarii I think can do better in a real blob. Remember, they can, with a few stratagems, both shoot normally and overwatch on 2+. Which can be fun, when you are running 4-6 with twin autocannons. I often use them as a screen, daring someone to charge them and get blasted to bits. Using Mars, you can use the "Wrath of Mars" stratagem on them as well, for the added Mortal Wounds - and Cawl can give them the reroll to hit bubble. You'd normally use Wrath on the robots, but I like having options and redundancy in my lists.

I don't really consider being "too much of an inviting target" a bad thing, since I want to tempt the opponent to shoot at them rather than, say, my robots. Target saturation forces choice, and choice opens up for error. I get your point though - you have to build around it. I run my Hoplites defensively as a counter assault or spearwall force, and face different challenges. I rarely have to worry about getting to charge as much as worrying about being charged. That's really cool though - that we are able to plan and use our forces so differently, despite the apparent homogeneity of the Adeptus Mechanicus in their current state.

[BolterZorro]

A french forum is actually evaluating the breachers and a unit of 12 is a real beast. 360pts, can be buff, can be revive, with the specialist formation has a great save/invuln and make a ton of heavy damage. Probably the next MVP in a Admech army.

Some even wanted to try 3x12 breachers but ££££$$$$$€€€€€ becomes in a real problem 

[Perry]

A french forum is actually evaluating the breachers and a unit of 12 is a real beast. 360pts, can be buff, can be revive, with the specialist formation has a great save/invuln and make a ton of heavy damage. Probably the next MVP in a Admech army.

Some even wanted to try 3x12 breachers but ££££$$$$$€€€€€ becomes in a real problem

Heavy Arc or Torsion gun?

[Charlo]

The Heavy Arc rifle is seriously good IMO. Excellent all rounder gun.

[synthaside]

@Heliomanes, what's so very interesting is we are coming from two very different schools of ad mech,  I would very much enjoy playing against you ...  I've found robots hitting on 5's without cawl (heavy -1 meta) essentially a crapshoot when I'm not playing Eldar filth my opponent can  typically play around or lock them up.  Essentially they are  overpriced for what they do , their points is reliant on being able to shoot twice,  So  on any board with good Los blocking terrain ( ITC ground floor being solid rules ) means that i cant risk planting them in the ground.  often they end up a  negative return on investment . Its funny as my best Wrath of mars in my rare mars games have come from 10 man blobs of infiltrators,  at least I can hit the broad side of a barn with them and you've got to hit to even get a chance to fish for that mortal wound.

I play Metallica or Stygies and I play a quite aggressive with an objective focused advancing ad mech ..  Rather than castling up at the back my entire army tends to move as one large block trying to swarm the centre objectives ...  perhaps i will find a use for the advancing bots,  but while i do love them I've seen  stock rangers kill as many s targets as Kaste's ,  point for point  10 strength 4 shots from 8 squads  of rangers..  around the price of 2 robots  and  actually kill 2 more Primaris when they get to shooting ..  

[hermanista]

So a Lancer, Cawl/Bulwark Castellan and two crusaders - Thermal/RFBC fits in 2k with points to spare post Chapter Approved.

 

Ok so it's light of CP, only 5 for the game after relics/traits, but I can live with that.

 

Gimme that book!

 

:-)

[sneakybamsen]

So a Lancer, Cawl/Bulwark Castellan and two crusaders - Thermal/RFBC fits in 2k with points to spare post Chapter Approved.

 

Ok so it's light of CP, only 5 for the game after relics/traits, but I can live with that.

 

Gimme that book!

 

:-)

 

How about a Castigator instead of the Lancer? The Castigator Bolt Cannon went from 120 to 50(!) points, which seems absolutely bonkers. Raven, all advancing, all laying down the dakka and annihilation.

 

I could, if I wanted to, bring the mentioned as Raven to a tourney in february..

[hermanista]

How about a Castigator instead of the Lancer? The Castigator Bolt Cannon went from 120 to 50(!) points, which seems absolutely bonkers. Raven, all advancing, all laying down the dakka and annihilation.

 

I could, if I wanted to, bring the mentioned as Raven to a tourney in february..

I'm not a huge fan of the Castigator, it looks alright but the other three Cerastus look cooler which is why I never bought one.

 

But I also play house Vulker now - rerolls ones for everyone is great and I'd much prefer three goes of saturation bombardment to one go with order of companions.

 

Plus Adamantine Knight in invaluable on the lancer.