BA and CA 2.0

[Orblivion]

I'm thinking I'm just gonna suggest a house rule for Encarmine Swords to my group.  We're paying 3 points more than a Relic Blade so I feel like they should at least have the stats of Relic Blades, maybe give them some form of exploding dice rule as well?

[Quixus]

Give the swords and axes 3 damage and the cost is justified.

[The Unseen]

RIP DC and Sanguinary Guard. All hail Vanguard Veterans.

Character changes are weird.
Dante's justified, and probably still doesn't do enough, compared to a smash captain

Mephiston going up 15 seems knee jerk over people souping with him, but whatever

Lemartes was already solid, is now ridiculously good value compared to vanilla chaplain

Sanguinor being dropped is interesting, I know some people have had good things with him

 

And Indrefragable, missile launchers still suck, even at 20 pts.

 

Meltas and inferno pistols and fists going down are all nice, but then they :cuss it up by making plasma cheaper still. Pay 11 for plasma, or 14 for melta is still plasma. But at least multimeltas did get cheap enough to maybe be looked at before skipping straight to the lascannon I guess.

 

Flamers still suck, costing 6 pts won't change that, I'd barely be tempted if they were freaking FREE.

 

Heavy Flamer down to 14 is *interesting*. Probably still not good.

 

Also, wow. A combi-plasma is the same as the plasmagun. But a combi-melta is still 1 pt more. WHY?

 

Overall, mostly meh.

Nothing game changing here except the price drop to Vanguard+SS drops. They're now what, 2 pts cheaper per model like that? Nice.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Ok gang, so, what do we now think about a Smash Captain as such:

 

Relic Blade (9 pts) + Stormshield (10 pts)  = +19 as opposed to +36 for previous Thammer and Sshield.

Now hitting on 2's instead of 3's, still give him Artisan of war to make sure he's killing 2 and 3 wound models.

 

His role might shift to hunting characters and elites over baneblades and such.

 

On the other hand, I wonder if a Squad full of multimelta devs packed into a drop pod might now be viable alternative for his previous role.

Any thoughts?

[lash144]

Vanguard Vets/Company Vets with stormshield are clear winners. You want durability? 19 PPM with stormshield and covered by Standard of Sac, 3++/5+++ for 19 ppm. Yes please. RIP Death Company.

This sounds very sexy indeed. Does it already include jumppacks?

 

Also LD 9 vs 7. Problems are they can't reroll charges with Lemartes and no extra attack on the charge.

[Panzer]

To be completely completely honest, without any sky is falling or whatsoever. After the initial hype of stuff becoming cheaper and looking at all the changes .... GW missed the mark several times a lot all over again. It will shake the casual meta a bit and brings units rarely seen more often to the table but many of the actual problems didn't get touched and the competetive meta won't change all that much either based on what I've seen so far.

We got candies when we wanted something to fill our stomach. Basically.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Vanguard Vets/Company Vets with stormshield are clear winners. You want durability? 19 PPM with stormshield and covered by Standard of Sac, 3++/5+++ for 19 ppm. Yes please. RIP Death Company.

This sounds very sexy indeed. Does it already include jumppacks?

 

Also LD 9 vs 7. Problems are they can't reroll charges with Lemartes and no extra attack on the charge.

 

 

Yes, Veterans are all 14 now, and 17 with Jump Packs for Vanguard Vets.  True, they miss out on the extra attack that DC have, but they are a metric :cuss ton more durable, AND you can have Sanguinor and Libby Dread (both of whom went down in points) with unleash rage to pump up their attacks.  You can still also use Descent of Angels on them to roll 3d6

[Indefragable]

And Indrefragable, missile launchers still suck, even at 20 pts.

 

Lol. I'm not saying I'm going to rip up my lascannon Devs now, but at least there's slight justification to have 1 or 2 sprinkled in for the Strategem.

[Indefragable]

After the initial hype of stuff becoming cheaper and looking at all the changes .... GW missed the mark several times a lot all over again.

 

It's business as usual for GW.

[Closet Skeleton]

Ok gang, so, what do we now think about a Smash Captain as such:

 

Relic Blade (9 pts) + Stormshield (10 pts)  = +19 as opposed to +36 for previous Thammer and Sshield.

Now hitting on 2's instead of 3's, still give him Artisan of war to make sure he's killing 2 and 3 wound models.

 

Relic blade and storm shield has been an illegal combo for all of 8th ed lol.

[Panzer]

I'll be definitely giving Relic blade a try again. It's always been my favourite weapon for Captains together with Thunderhammers however in 8th the difference was just too big to use it seriously.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Ok gang, so, what do we now think about a Smash Captain as such:

 

Relic Blade (9 pts) + Stormshield (10 pts)  = +19 as opposed to +36 for previous Thammer and Sshield.

Now hitting on 2's instead of 3's, still give him Artisan of war to make sure he's killing 2 and 3 wound models.

 

Relic blade and storm shield has been an illegal combo for all of 8th ed lol.

 

 

wow, how about that! Good thing I never tried using them, then!

[Ornithologist]

What do people think about new terminator points costs? more worth it or not?

[Silverson]

I find it strange that while an encarmine sword and axe remain the same, a force sword dropped to 8pts and an axe 10pts. While I don’t understand why an axe is more atleast it’s realistic of the cost at 2/3rds what they are now.

[9x19 Parabellum]

34 pts. vs. 42 pts, so getting an 8 point discount per model, which translates to 40 pts over a squad of 5.  Combine that, with for example, the price of both heavy flamers and cyclone missile launchers dropping (but not assault cannons, so overall saving depends on what loadout you want), and you're look at as much as 52 pts. in savings.

 

Combine this with the drop for Land Raiders to transport them (anywhere from 44 to 60 pts. depending on your chassis). 

 

So you're looking at shaving off 40 - 100 pts. from the total cost of bringing these guys to battle now.

 

That's all great, no doubt.

 

Now I'm looking at one of the other problems, which is the cost of generating Command Points, and not much has changed here at all.  Scout and Tacs cost the same as before; Intercessors have dropped, but not by an amount where you'd ever purchase more than the MSU to get your CP's.

 

So, the framework by which you build your army (generally, the battalion), has not changed (perhaps a little less than before based on the lower cost of HQ's). A lot of the heavy hitters for Blood Angels are still Command Point intensive (whether we go with Strike of the Archangels for termies, or Descent of Angels for SGuard/DC).  So we've made some gains in one part of the multi-headed hydra of Astartes problems, and that's certainly good, but one of the core problems with Astartes is still very much in place.

 

My prediction: A little help, but the main ways to get to the top tables competitively has not changed.  You'll still see Blood Angels needing to get souped in with Imperial Knights or Astra Militarum in order to really bang things out.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Ok gang, so, what do we now think about a Smash Captain as such:

 

Relic Blade (9 pts) + Stormshield (10 pts) = +19 as opposed to +36 for previous Thammer and Sshield.

Now hitting on 2's instead of 3's, still give him Artisan of war to make sure he's killing 2 and 3 wound models.

 

His role might shift to hunting characters and elites over baneblades and such.

 

On the other hand, I wonder if a Squad full of multimelta devs packed into a drop pod might now be viable alternative for his previous role.

Any thoughts?

Relic Blade + Storm Shield is an illegal entry. It has always been an illegal entry and people still forget that.

 

It would be awesome otherwise.

 

Edit: ninja'd

[Karhedron]

 

OOH: Libby Dread dropped 20 pts and ReDread dropped 35 pts!

 

With the Furioso Fist dropping as well the libby dread gets 30 points cheaper in total!

 

I think he might just have replaced Mephiston as our go-to psyker since Mephy went up by almost as many points.

[Paladin777]

Hah, if this had happened a couple months ago we might have seen some libnaught’s in the feast of blades!

[Ornithologist]

That seems like it might be a little overkill... I like it.

[Panzer]

Hah, if this had happened a couple months ago we might have seen some libnaught’s in the feast of blades!

I'm pretty sure the points limit was a concious decision to not allow Librarian Dreads so the rules would have been adjusted as well. ;)

[The4thHorseman]

Gonna do this because its useful and I wanted to know myself.

 

CHANGES IN POINTS

 

BLOOD ANGEL UNITS

 

ASSAULT SQ. WITH JP (-1)

ATTACK BIKE SQ. (-10)

BAAL PREDATOR (-10)

BIKE SQ. (-4) ATK BK (-10)

CPT. IN CATAPHRACTII (-31)

CPT. IN GRAVIS (-12)

CPT. IN TERM. (-10)

CATAPHRACTII TERM SQ (-4)

CHAPL. IN TERM. (-10)

CO. VETS (-2)

CONTEMP DREAD (-10)

DEATH CO. DREAD (-10)

DREAD (-10)

DROP POD (-20)

FURIOSO DREAD (-10)

HUNTER (-10)

INTERCESSOR SQ (-1)

LAND RAIDER (-39)

LAND RAIDER CRUSADER (-44)

LAND RAIDER REDEEMER (-64)

LAND SPEEDERS (-20)

LIBBY DREAD (-20)

LIBBY IN TERM. (-18)

PREDATOR (0)

PRIMARIS CPT. (-9)

PRIMARIS CHAPL. (-8)

REDEPTOR DREAD (-35)

REPULSOR (-25)

SANGUINARY ANCIENT (-20)

SCOUT BK SQ. (-2)

SERVITORS (+3)

STERNGUARD VET SQ. (-2)

TARTAROS TERM. SQ. (-3)

TERM ASSAULT SQ. (-3)

TERM. SQ. (-3)

VANGUARD VET SQ. (-2)

VANGUARD VET WITH JP (-1)

 

BLOOD ANGEL CHARACTERS

 

ASTORATH (-38)

BROTHER CORBULO (-11)

CPT. TYCHO (-10)

CH. LIB. MEPHISTON (+15)

CMD. DANTE (-40)

LEMARTES (-29)

SANGUINOR (-20)

 

BLOOD ANGEL WARGEAR

 

ASTARTES GRENADE LAUNCHER (-5)

AUTO BOLT RIFLE (0)

AUX GRENADE LAUNCHER (-1)

BLOOD TALONS (-30)

BOLT PISTOL (0)

BOLT RIFLE (0)

CERBERUS LAUNCHER (-5)

CHAINFIST (-11)

CHAINSWORD (0)

COMBI-FLAMER (-3)

COMBI-GRAV (-4)

COMBI-MELTA (-4)

COMBI-PLASMA (-4)

CYCLONE MISSILE LAUNCHER (-12)

DREAD COMBAT WEAPON (-10)

EVISIRATOR (-11)

FLAMER (-3)

FLAMESTORM GAUNTLETS (-3)

FRAG CANNON (-8)

FRAG GRENADES (0)

FURIOSO FIST (-10/-10)

GRAV GUN (-3)

GRENADE HARNESS (-8)

HEAVY FLAMER (-3)

HEAVY ONSLAUGHT GATLING CANNON (-6)

HEAVY PLASMA CANNON (-14)

ICARUS STORMCANNON (-7)

INFERNO PISTOL -2)

KRAK GRENADES (0)

MASTER CRAFTED POWER SWORD (-4)

MELTA GUN (-3)

MISSILE LAUNCHER (-5)

MULTI-MELTA (-5)

PLASMA CANNON (-5)

PLASMA CUTTER (-2)

PLASMA GUN (-2)

PLASMA PISTOL (-2)

POWER FIST (-3)

POWER SWORD (0)

REAPER AUTOCANNON (-8)

RELIC BLADE (-12)

SERVO-ARM (-12)

SNIPER RIFLE (-2)

STALKER BOLT RIFLE (-2)

STORM SHIELD CHARACTER (-5)

STORM SHIELD (-3)

TWIN HEAVY PLASMA CANNON (-10)

TWIN LASCANNON (-10)

TWIN MULTI-MELTA (-14)

TYPHOON MISSILE LAUNCHER (-12)

VOLKITE CHARGER (-3)

WHIRLWIND CASTELLAN LAUNCHER (-10)

WHIRLWIND VENGEANCE LAUNCHER (-14)

WRIST MOUNTED GRENADE LAUNCHER (-4)

 

 

FORGEWORLD SPACE MARINE UNITS

 

CAESTUS ASSUALT RAM (0)

CONTEMP. MORTIS DREAD (-18)

DEMIOS RELIC PRED (0)

FIRE RAPTOR GUNSHIP (+90)

INFERNUM RAZORBACK (0)

LAND RAIDER ACHILLIES (-40)

LAND RAIDER HELIOS (-37)

LAND RAIDER PROMETHUS (-40)

LAND SPEEDER TEMPEST (0)

DREAD DROP POD (0)

RELIC CERBERUS HEAVY TANK DESTROYER (0)

RELIC CONTEMP DREAD (-25)

RELIC DEREDEO DREAD (-15)

RELIC FALCHION SUPER HEAVY (0)

RELIC FELLBLADE SUPER HEAVY (0)

RELIC JAVELIN ATK SPEEDER (0)

RELIC LAND RAIDER PROTEUS (-39)

RELIC MASTADON SUPER HEAVY TRANSPORT (0)

RELIC SICARAN PUNISHER (0)

RELIC SICARAN VENATOR (0)

RELIC TYPHON HEAVY SIEGE TANK (0)

SIEGE DREAD (0)

SOKAR PATT STORMBIRD (0)

TARANTULA AIR DEFENSE BATTERY (0)

TARANTULA SENTRY GUN (0)

THUNDERHAWK GUNSHIP (0)

THUNDERHAWK TRANSPORTER (0)

XIPHON INTERCEPTOR (0)

 

FORGEWORLD SPACE MARINE WARGEAR

 

ASSAULT CANNON (0)

CASTELLUM BATTLE CANNON (0)

COMBI-FLAMER (-3)

COMBI-MELTA (-4)

CYCLONE MISSILE LAUNCHER (-12)

DREAD CHAINFIST (-8/-8)

DREAD COMBAT WEAPON (-10/-10)

GRAV-FLUX BOMBARD (0)

HEAVY FLAMER (-3)

HEAVY PLASMA CANNON (-14)

LEVI SIEGE CLAW (-25/-25)

LEVI SIEGE DRILL (-25/-25)

MAGNA MELTA CANNON (-20)

MELTAGUN (-3)

MISSILE LAUNCHER (-5)

MULTI-MELTA (-5)

PLASMA DESTROYER (-12)

POWER FIST (-3)

PRED AUTOCANNON (0)

PUNISHER ROTARY CANNON (0)

SIESMIC HAMMER (-8)

SERVO-ARM (-12)

TWIN ACCELERATOR AUTOCANNON (0)

TWIN ASSAULT CANNON (0)

TWIN AUTOCANNON (0)

TWIN HEAVY FLAMER (-6)

TWIN LASCANNON (-10)

TYPHOON MISSILE LAUNCHER (-12)

WHIRLWIND CASTELLAN LAUNCHER (-10)

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Tycho dropping down 10 points is a huge boost for a footy captain in my opinion. He made a great case to be included in several of my lists before the points drop.

 

He is definitely more effective than a generic captain thanks to his boosts.

[Paladin777]

I’m really glad you made that list as the images have now been taken down already!

[Morticon]

Man, this is going to inspire me to make a few vlogs and write a few letters. <_<  

Will share when I'm done. 

[CrimsonExarch]

So with all the changes what are people thinking for competitive Blood Angels?
 

Libby dreads are pretty solid at 142 pts with a stormbolter....

Storm ravens with twin las, twin MM, 2x SS missiles and 2x Hurricane Bolters at 334pts is pretty dang reasonable!

Godhammer landraiders at 300pts (200+40+40+20?) also seems like potential even as a resilient firebase for Anti-armour.

Its a shame most of our troops saw no price decrease, but Intercessors at 85pts MSU with a free grenade launcher.....Am I the only one that finds that intriguing?

 

My initial thought was to make a list along the lines of:
 

Batallion 1:

2x Slam captain

3x Scout squads (bolters+Heavy Bolter)
 

Batallion 2:

2x Libby Dread

3x 5man Intercessor squads /w AGL
 

Air Wing Detachment:

3x Storm Raven (as equipped above)

 

Decent amount of bodies, lots of anti Infantry and anti-tank, some psychic presence and plenty of CP to feed slam captains

comes in at 1984pts