The inevitable Primaris Dante

[Blindhamster]

Honestly yes something to justify the name might have been nice, it’s had rerolls to wound vs characters in the past

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

i know everyone here has complained about lethality and codex creep, but now we get a reasonable character, it's not deadly enough lol

[Blindhamster]

in fairness, I think its because azrael got a lethality boost, so people looked at that and assumed that it'd be similar for our golden boy lol.

[The Unseen]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

i know everyone here has complained about lethality and codex creep, but now we get a reasonable character, it's not deadly enough lol

There's a large difference between recognizing the game is too lethal and ALSO not wanting your nearly 200 pt chapter master to not hit like a wet noodle. He's not even 2 SG worth of damage output *most* of the time, and is blown out of the water by other cheaper characters in our own line-up. Astorath being the notable one, since for 0 CP can make himself the same Str, same AP, and D4! Just by using the Mantra of Strength, so he can also still have the reroll hits in the fight phase up for himself and everyone within 6".

His one unique trick is almost certain to either get him killed (Angel's Sacrifice) or only be used once he has already died to fight, and his WLT is so bad that you don't even spend the 1 cp he gives you; on giving it to him.

 

I remember the days when Dante could select his own warlord trait from a similar to now list of 6, was Initiative 6 compared to standard marine hero 5, debuffed a chosen enemy character before the game started (That was the Deathmasks old rule) and back then AP2 at initiative was fairly rare overall, and his Axe got to reroll (I forget if it was hit and wound or just wound) vs characters; and with the old school to-wound chart his Str7 mattered a lot more. And pretty much ever since then he's been worse; started with the move to split apart power weapon profiles and they didn't give him an exception to swinging at I1 with his axe, so he had I6 he didn't get to use, but a worse weapon than a powerfist.

 

Its the Mephiston problem all over again, a Primaris model upgrade, but no changes to the otherwise mediocre base rules, and a 10 pt increase.
I'd be saltier if these rules weren't just going to disappear in 3 months, but it just feels very lazy. +1 W/A, +10 Pts, done. Nobody took Dante (from a competitive standpoint) before the CP rules changed and marines desperately needed to cut back on pre-game CP since a tooled up custom chapter master was miles ahead. But unlike the other wlt/relic carriers in marines, Dante is functional at handing out rerolls with a jump pack without spending any CP, so you take him for the +1 CP so you can afford all the other stuff BA need.

[Spyros]

One can hope that 10th will change Dante's abilities, I dare say, dramatically.

The one clue pointing to this is revealed 10th ed abilities of the lieutenant, compared to his 9th ed profile. I find him a lot more useful.

[Paladin777]

With the way they're changing up how characters work, I'm curious to see what squads he can join, other than the obvious SG. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

12 hours ago, The Unseen said:

There's a large difference between recognizing the game is too lethal and ALSO not wanting your nearly 200 pt chapter master to not hit like a wet noodle. He's not even 2 SG worth of damage output *most* of the time, and is blown out of the water by other cheaper characters in our own line-up. Astorath being the notable one, since for 0 CP can make himself the same Str, same AP, and D4! Just by using the Mantra of Strength, so he can also still have the reroll hits in the fight phase up for himself and everyone within 6".

His one unique trick is almost certain to either get him killed (Angel's Sacrifice) or only be used once he has already died to fight, and his WLT is so bad that you don't even spend the 1 cp he gives you; on giving it to him.

 

I remember the days when Dante could select his own warlord trait from a similar to now list of 6, was Initiative 6 compared to standard marine hero 5, debuffed a chosen enemy character before the game started (That was the Deathmasks old rule) and back then AP2 at initiative was fairly rare overall, and his Axe got to reroll (I forget if it was hit and wound or just wound) vs characters; and with the old school to-wound chart his Str7 mattered a lot more. And pretty much ever since then he's been worse; started with the move to split apart power weapon profiles and they didn't give him an exception to swinging at I1 with his axe, so he had I6 he didn't get to use, but a worse weapon than a powerfist.

 

Its the Mephiston problem all over again, a Primaris model upgrade, but no changes to the otherwise mediocre base rules, and a 10 pt increase.
I'd be saltier if these rules weren't just going to disappear in 3 months, but it just feels very lazy. +1 W/A, +10 Pts, done. Nobody took Dante (from a competitive standpoint) before the CP rules changed and marines desperately needed to cut back on pre-game CP since a tooled up custom chapter master was miles ahead. But unlike the other wlt/relic carriers in marines, Dante is functional at handing out rerolls with a jump pack without spending any CP, so you take him for the +1 CP so you can afford all the other stuff BA need.

He’s not supposed to be a beatstick.

 

he has solid melee, good short ranged shooting, and good buffs. He’s perfectly fine, unless you’re a fan of codex creep

7 minutes ago, Paladin777 said:

With the way they're changing up how characters work, I'm curious to see what squads he can join, other than the obvious SG. 

Probably any jump infantry.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

One can hope that 10th will change Dante's abilities, I dare say, dramatically.

The one clue pointing to this is revealed 10th ed abilities of the lieutenant, compared to his 9th ed profile. I find him a lot more useful.

Honestly I don’t see why they’d make dramatic changes to him, 3 months after first revealing him. 
they absolutely could but it would really nonsensical.

[Helias_Tancred]

Dante is a beat stick. Has always been one since I've been playing which is 6th edition.

 

I eagerly await the changes that happen in 10th edition. As he is now I'm not complaining, but then I don't play competitively, nor do I walk into game stores to play random customer X and his net list army. 

 

My basement with a painted RoB board/and or game mat, and tons of painted terrain is where it's at! Did I mention I have a new fridge in my basement too? ;) ...but anyways yeah I'm okay with him, I've found that when I get worked up over 40k rules is when my enjoyment of it takes a hit. 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[happyslugger]

I only hope they bump his weapons a little in 10th given a rhino is now T9 lol.

 

Sure will be interesting to see how everything pans out in the next few months. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by happyslugger

[Arkangilos]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Honestly I don’t see why they’d make dramatic changes to him, 3 months after first revealing him. 
they absolutely could but it would really nonsensical

They are changing everything somewhat dramatically. Lol.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Arkangilos said:

They are changing everything somewhat dramatically. Lol.

As far as infantry we don’t see anything too dramatic being changed.

 

the terminators are what we’d expect.

They’ve given no indication that infantry would be getting major reworks.

 

in fact I think his current rules kit is already fairly aimed at 10th, for example his mask will likely give any unit he joins -1 to hit along with all of his rerolls.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, happyslugger said:

I only hope they bump his weapons a little in 10th given a rhino is now T9 lol.

 

Sure will be interesting to see how everything pans out in the next few months. 

Well they said the rhino would be more durable even to melta so it seems unlikely that the perdition pistol will get much of a buff, and power axes have never really been anti-tank weapons so i see no reason to buff the axe mortalis based on that 

[Blindhamster]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

As far as infantry we don’t see anything too dramatic being changed.

 

the terminators are what we’d expect.

They’ve given no indication that infantry would be getting major reworks.

 

in fact I think his current rules kit is already fairly aimed at 10th, for example his mask will likely give any unit he joins -1 to hit along with all of his rerolls.

The lieutenants actual rules (perhaps not stats) have changed substantially, I think that's the point being made.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

58 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

The lieutenants actual rules (perhaps not stats) have changed substantially, I think that's the point being made.

Their rules in regards to how they work has changed because his characters work in general has changed, but I see no reason for that to result in better stats or rules for Dante in 10th. They’re likely to simply adjust those rules a bit in 10th.

[Blindhamster]

Missing the point, Dante’s rules will change because the rules around interactions with units are changing.

 

Dante’s rules will change because all weapons are being re evaluated.

 

the only thing I believe we will probably see no changes to is his base set of attributes. 
 

note: I’m not saying anything will be “better” (though it may be in relation to the new ruleset), but I’d bet a lot of things do become different 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

31 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Missing the point, Dante’s rules will change because the rules around interactions with units are changing.

 

Dante’s rules will change because all weapons are being re evaluated.

 

the only thing I believe we will probably see no changes to is his base set of attributes. 
 

note: I’m not saying anything will be “better” (though it may be in relation to the new ruleset), but I’d bet a lot of things do become different 

Idk most of his rules seem like they’d work pretty well in 10th based on what we’ve seen so far.

the only changes would be to wording from aura to unit hes a part of, and his death mask applying to his unit as well.

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Idk most of his rules seem like they’d work pretty well in 10th based on what we’ve seen so far.

the only changes would be to wording from aura to unit hes a part of, and his death mask applying to his unit as well.

doesn't look like rerolls are likely to be the auras in use for characters anymore, so likely the chapter master and rites of battle rules will change. stratagems and command points are changing from what we've seen, so his regent and epic hero rules will quite possibly change. Death mask may well stay the same I guess. As will the iron halo. In theory, he should gain a 5+ fnp from artificer armour really.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

doesn't look like rerolls are likely to be the auras in use for characters anymore, so likely the chapter master and rites of battle rules will change. stratagems and command points are changing from what we've seen, so his regent and epic hero rules will quite possibly change. Death mask may well stay the same I guess. As will the iron halo. In theory, he should gain a 5+ fnp from artificer armour really.

Rerolls will be less common they said, and chapter master or equivalent providing them to a single squad would match up with that intent while keeping those head honchos reasonably powerful as buffing characters 

[Helias_Tancred]

On a similar but separate note, who pre-ordered?

 

I did ;)

 

Dante is one of my favorite characters in the entire genre. I'd own the model and he'd see rotation in my BA lists even if he was modeled carrying a golden toy rattle!

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Eilio Tiberius

[happyslugger]

Me 

[Blindhamster]

I had a voucher from my brother in law back in January precisely for the purpose of getting Dante, I gladly used it today lol

[Cleon]

I have also ordered Dante, and the lovely Golden dice weren't just to get me free shipping....

[Blindhamster]

The dice also got ordered lol, I think I’ve got every set of official dice (and some unofficial), so would have been rude not to haha.

[Helias_Tancred]

After reading these replies I just ordered the dice set too! lol.