The inevitable Primaris Dante

[keeblerartillery]

I want this so very badly now. Mephiston + Sanguinor primarch lite.

[Indefragable]

I don't know if I want a transmogrified Dante, TBH.

 

I like the idea that he is :cuss - :cuss enough to hang with them without needing any PEDs.

 

That being said, if it's as inexorable as the rising sun....

 

 

(cough)...dignity...(cough)

Apart from you said - nothing. He got bigger base, so gives out bigger aura (if he has any now).

 

I LOL'ed for real at that pic.

 

 

• GW is phasing out older models previously only in finecast and has been for the past several years - plastic Grimnar, Ulrik, Khârn, Typhus, Ahriman, etc.

Counterpoint: They're still making NEW models in Finecast.

 

See: Sly Marbo and Eisenhorn

 

As to Primaris'd Dante, how about this theory, which my friend put forward last night when we were doing a build & paint session at his place:

All of the fluff has been bringing up Dante being so old, so tired and wanting to die. We KNOW for a fact the Primaris Rubicon almost killed Calgar, who's YOUNGER than Dante. His theory: Dante will die to show how dangerous said process is. BUT, Blood Angels will get a Rubicon Primaris marine. And it will allow the Blood Angels to get something like Sanguinius reborn.

 

And that marine, is Mephiston.

 

He brought up all the fluff pointing out that Mephiston GREW in size after what happened to him, and how he's basically channeling so much warp energy. Perhaps the reason why Mephiston was able to break out of the Black Rage was because Sanguinius spirit touched him, literally.

 

And this, Blood Angels will get a new Mephiston model, and a new Chapter Master. A Psyker Chapter Master, who's borderline Guilliman size, because Mephiston is, in the fluff, ALREADY the size of a Primaris marine.

 

 

Are you sure it was Sanguinius' spirit that touched him? He's named Mephiston, after all.

 

That ambiguity is part of what makes Mephy so interesting (and I love how even some other BA Successor Chapters shrink back from him and think he's tainted somehow).

 

***************

 

Sanguinius is dead.

Hidden Content

Marley was dead, to begin with. There is no doubt whatever about that. The register of his burial was signed by the clergyman, the clerk, the undertaker, and the chief mourner. Scrooge signed it. And Scrooge’s name was good upon ‘Change for anything he chose to put his hand to. Old Marley was as dead as a doornail.

What makes the BA so interesting is that they've had to live with that fact and overcome it for so long. For me, it makes it more interesting that they are able to achieve so much without some kind of warpy/spiritual touch from their genesire. That Mephiston was able to overcome the very flaw of his own DNA through means other than spiritual intervention. That the Sanguinor is not a shard of Sanguinius. That Dante is simply a tired old warrior that has seen everything the galaxy has thrown at him and never lost his virtue.

 

1500 years. That's longer than the Great Crusade + Horus Heresy + Scouring combined. 15% of the time passed in the entire setting.  And Dante has been Chapter Master for more than 2/3 of that time period.

 

 

Rules:

1500 years of experience.

Respected as a a true Hero of the Imperium by other Chapters (just like he was voted Supreme Commander at Armageddon II).

Basically, a mini-Primarch and costed appropriately.

Aka he should be like 250pts but be oh-so-worth his points cost

....just don't give him +1A and that's it <face palm> that's already the issue with his 8th ed incarnation

 

Fluff:

Above all else, Dante is a leader by example. His ability to stave off the Black Rage for so long is an inspiration to every single Astartes that bears the blood of their genesire. "You there, Initiate in the trench line: you too can control your rage no matter what the odds. Why? Because I have."

And just like his genefather, he serves as an examplar of war, taking the fight to the enemy, showing all on his side that he will always be found where the fighting is thickest, That he is their golden salvation come from on high with fiery wings of justice to smote the enemy's champion by hand.

Dante would be the first to get transmogrified Primaris-ified, not out of vanity or self-importance, but to lead by example: to take the first risk. Like a general being vaccinated in front of his weary troops.

 

Model:

the sons of Sanguinius pride themselves on their artifice, behind perhaps only the Salamanders and Iron Hands. If ever there was a being fit for a custom suit of armor, it's this guy. Artificer in all ways in order to offer the protection of heavier suits while allowing the aerodynamics and maneuverability someone as swift as Dante needs.

Call me boring, but basically the same thing he has now set in the standards of the very well done modern plastic models.

[Leonaides]

The BA themselves didn't have a problem, only Amit and his guys did. The rest of them accepted it almost without qualms.

 

Also I Michaelus, I definitely think you should read Dante. That is not how they are described... at all.

 

As for the flaw, it doesn't have to do with how they get the geneseed (they don't even take from his body anymore, it's all from the Sanguinary Priests). If it was they wouldn't have fallen to the flaw before the end of the heresy. The BA just have a stronger link to their primarch than most others. The thirst was pre-death, and the Black Rage happened before and right at his death.

Apologies for the bulk quote but on my mobile. The geneseed for almost all the blood angels and even the blood borne in the veins of the priests does in fact come from sanguinius's dead body as the legions genebanks and the bulk of their stored geneseed were destroyed during the war on terra. The blood angels are unique in this. No other geneline has geneseed tsken from a primarch after death but the angels had no choice. The blood may now be kept in the priests, but it all came from a dead body.

[Panzer]

 

• GW is phasing out older models previously only in finecast and has been for the past several years - plastic Grimnar, Ulrik, Khârn, Typhus, Ahriman, etc.

Counterpoint: They're still making NEW models in Finecast.

 

See: Sly Marbo and Eisenhorn

 

As to Primaris'd Dante, how about this theory, which my friend put forward last night when we were doing a build & paint session at his place:

 

All of the fluff has been bringing up Dante being so old, so tired and wanting to die. We KNOW for a fact the Primaris Rubicon almost killed Calgar, who's YOUNGER than Dante. His theory: Dante will die to show how dangerous said process is. BUT, Blood Angels will get a Rubicon Primaris marine. And it will allow the Blood Angels to get something like Sanguinius reborn.

 

And that marine, is Mephiston.

 

He brought up all the fluff pointing out that Mephiston GREW in size after what happened to him, and how he's basically channeling so much warp energy. Perhaps the reason why Mephiston was able to break out of the Black Rage was because Sanguinius spirit touched him, literally.

 

And this, Blood Angels will get a new Mephiston model, and a new Chapter Master. A Psyker Chapter Master, who's borderline Guilliman size, because Mephiston is, in the fluff, ALREADY the size of a Primaris marine.

 

 

Dante doesn't want to die except for that one time he was 99% dead and Sanguinius told him to go back at the end of DoB. Also yes he's old. He's old because he's so damn resilient both in mind and body. Ignoring special character status etc I'd bet money that Dante would survive a procedure that would kill hundreds of young Marines. You don't become old and stay in active duty as a warrior if you are frail. He's old but he's not weak.

 

I actually think it's likely that Mephiston won't get the Primaris treatment since he already is a monster superior to Primaris Marines physically and his psychic might comes on top of that. There's simply no need for him to risk his life to undergo that treatment and in fact we've learned that he's very concious about his condition and only really fiddles around with it in controled environments or if he can't help it. He's curious about its true nature but also thinks it's something better left untouched since it's likely not something that comes from Sanguinius.

Edited November 27, 2018 by sfPanzer

[Arkangilos]

Also, Dante is literally only showing in age because he has been resisting the thirst. When he gave in, he got stronger and more youthful again. Unless I missed something after Dante. But resisting your very core wears you out.

 

Mephiston is called that because he conquered death. It literally says that he took the name as "Lord of Death" after having overcome the death from the flaw. And it was a vision of Sanguinius, who came in and said that he had to overcome it for the chapter.

 

They shrink back because he's a psyker, more powerful than he was, and changed as a person when he overcame he flaw. It's natural they would shrink back. Plus the flaw still lingered (at least in old fluff).

 

I actually don't know much about Mephiston in new lore with the Novel, but at least I'm the codex.

[Zebulon]

My hopes?

 

That his new model is not a foul abomination!

 

Looks like I may become a Flesh Tearer...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

The question is will he be the first 2+ save primaris or will it be Calgar?

 

Calgar bumping up to T5 is going to be very strong for sure.

 

I would love for Dante to be the first. I also hope he gets something really magnificent like a 4++ bubble or 2-3 CP for fielding him.

 

So much to look forward to.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow this is a great conversation !

 

/thumbsup

[Sete]

My hopes?

 

That his new model is not a foul abomination!

 

Looks like I may become a Flesh Tearer...

Oh but my boy... Seth will become one aswell...

Turning him into an hypocrite.

Which is a shame. I do really like him.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Sete

[Arkangilos]

Only if he doesn't change his mind lol

[Bonzi]

They will never kill off Dante, especially not in some Primaris easy bake oven accident.

 

Dante, Mephiston, Corbulo, Astorath, and even Lemartes all represent distinct aspects of Sanguinius. We don't get our Primarch, we get his avatars. Dante is Sanginius as the leader and the savior (the golden vision of hope Sanguinius was to imperial forces). Mephiston is the thirst and the chained strength (Sanguinius had a dark side that he kept restrained, only showing in the worst battles). Corbulo is the visionary (Sanguinius was granted visions of foresight and fought not for the joy of battle but what would be built after). Astorath is the redeemer, granting the fallen release (the thirst had taken BA before he died, Horus caught Sanguinius personally slaying BA lost to the thirst because he viewed it as his duty to care for his sons). Lemartes is the rage unleashed (the birth of the black rage when Sanguinius first fought and was physically and psychicly wounded by the greater Khorne daemon).

[Kinstryfe]

I actually think it makes sense for "the spirit of Sanguinius" so to speak to occasionally aid the BA and other successors. We know that believe translates into power in this setting, and Sanguinalia is the most commonly celebrated holiday in the Imperium. Nowhere near what Big E gets, but I'd bet it's enough for Sanguinius to have a warp presence and to act occasionally in his children's interests. Not a full fledged consciousness, but probably the number two in power after The Emperor.

 

That aside, I do kind of think that he could be the warning example of the dangers of the Rubicon. After it kills off the longest lived hero of the Imperium it's bound to add a little tension.

[Xenith]

I don't know if I want a transmogrified Dante, TBH.

 

I like the idea that he is  -  enough to hang with them without needing any PEDs.

 

That being said, if it's as inexorable as the rising sun....

 

 

 

Are you sure it was Sanguinius' spirit that touched him? He's named Mephiston, after all.

 

That ambiguity is part of what makes Mephy so interesting (and I love how even some other BA Successor Chapters shrink back from him and think he's tainted somehow).

 

***************

 

Sanguinius is dead.

 

What makes the BA so interesting is that they've had to live with that fact and overcome it for so long. For me, it makes it more interesting that they are able to achieve so much without some kind of warpy/spiritual touch from their genesire. That Mephiston was able to overcome the very flaw of his own DNA through means other than spiritual intervention. That the Sanguinor is not a shard of Sanguinius. That Dante is simply a tired old warrior that has seen everything the galaxy has thrown at him and never lost his virtue.

 

1500 years. That's longer than the Great Crusade + Horus Heresy + Scouring combined. 15% of the time passed in the entire setting.  And Dante has been Chapter Master for more than 2/3 of that time period.

 

 

Rules:

1500 years of experience.

Respected as a a true Hero of the Imperium by other Chapters (just like he was voted Supreme Commander at Armageddon II).

Basically, a mini-Primarch and costed appropriately.

Aka he should be like 250pts but be oh-so-worth his points cost

....just don't give him +1A and that's it <face palm> that's already the issue with his 8th ed incarnation

 

Fluff:

Above all else, Dante is a leader by example. His ability to stave off the Black Rage for so long is an inspiration to every single Astartes that bears the blood of their genesire. "You there, Initiate in the trench line: you too can control your rage no matter what the odds. Why? Because I have."

And just like his genefather, he serves as an examplar of war, taking the fight to the enemy, showing all on his side that he will always be found where the fighting is thickest, That he is their golden salvation come from on high with fiery wings of justice to smote the enemy's champion by hand.

Dante would be the first to get transmogrified Primaris-ified, not out of vanity or self-importance, but to lead by example: to take the first risk. Like a general being vaccinated in front of his weary troops.

 

 

 

Great post! The bit I highlighted in red was somehting I knew, but the significance of it never really clicked. At this point, even guilliman only has maybe 400 years combat experience, and only half of that in the 41st Millenium. He'd never seen a Tyranid/Necron/Tau/Dark Eldar/Genestealer cult etc until 200 years ago. 

 

I'd love to see something that truly reflects Dante as a god of the battlefield. 

 

---------------------------------

 

My only real issue with Primaris Dante would be that I was hoping to do Flesh Tearers with my Primaris marines

Edited November 28, 2018 by Xenith

[Indefragable]

<snip>

All credit goes to @Frater Antodeniel who caused a similar revelation in me last year or so.

[Majkhel]

I got a feeling that Dante actually lives longer than Sanguinius himself did (remember that we are currently 200 years of the Indomitus Crusade later)... Would need to check this though.

[Arkangilos]

He definitely did. The primarch only lived for about 300 years. He's been alive 6 times longer than him. Edited November 28, 2018 by Arkangilos

[Indefragable]

Regarding Dante's hair being white...

 

 

How I pictured him before:

Hidden Content

 

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k7w1y5pjhKs/VWYX9BY4rGI/AAAAAAAAFg0/XHAUFkE3wrc/s1600/13th%2Bwarrior_03.jpg

 

 

 

Now I picture him now:

 

Hidden Content

 

 

 

Thanks a lot, Guy Haley....

Edited November 28, 2018 by Indefragable

[Arkangilos]

I don't see the first image :(

[Indefragable]

I don't see the first image

 

try now :)

[Dont-Be-Haten]

You know what's weird is thinking about Space marines that are giants amongst their own versus Primaris marines. Like Tyberos is suppose to tower over regular astartes, much like Sigismund did. The Iron Snakes Chapter master is much larger than a normal astartes etc. I wonder if they too would get the primaris treatment outside of a retcon.

[brother_b]

Lol indefrag. Epic 13th warrior reference though.

[tkni]

It's possibly worth noting that we have already seen (sort of) MkX artificer armour:

 

 

The gravis captain has 'abs'...

[Phiasco]

-][- Edited to take out my off topic stuff. -][-

 

 

My hopes and dreams beyond having a cool new model would be that a Primarus Dante would be the poster boy for a wave of close combat centric primaris models/units.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Phiasco

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Okay. I dont want this thread to devolve into that debate weve had ad nausea!

 

So let's move back to discussions on Dante. Looking at reivers we know they are super scouts without cloaks.

 

By this we can assume that Cawl and company could probably modify legionas era artificer armor.

 

I wouldn't have a problem if they moved to gravis armor for him as I've seen some pretty awesome conversions or primaris dante already that look really sharp.

 

Would I prefer a sleak non bulky model yeah, and I think if they do make Dante a primaris he will have a lot to offer, but he needs a rule redesign as much as a anything else.

[Nova_Dew]

 

I don't know if I want a transmogrified Dante, TBH.

 

I like the idea that he is  -  enough to hang with them without needing any PEDs.

 

That being said, if it's as inexorable as the rising sun....

 

 

 

Are you sure it was Sanguinius' spirit that touched him? He's named Mephiston, after all.

 

That ambiguity is part of what makes Mephy so interesting (and I love how even some other BA Successor Chapters shrink back from him and think he's tainted somehow).

 

***************

 

Sanguinius is dead.

 

What makes the BA so interesting is that they've had to live with that fact and overcome it for so long. For me, it makes it more interesting that they are able to achieve so much without some kind of warpy/spiritual touch from their genesire. That Mephiston was able to overcome the very flaw of his own DNA through means other than spiritual intervention. That the Sanguinor is not a shard of Sanguinius. That Dante is simply a tired old warrior that has seen everything the galaxy has thrown at him and never lost his virtue.

 

1500 years. That's longer than the Great Crusade + Horus Heresy + Scouring combined. 15% of the time passed in the entire setting.  And Dante has been Chapter Master for more than 2/3 of that time period.

 

 

Rules:

1500 years of experience.

Respected as a a true Hero of the Imperium by other Chapters (just like he was voted Supreme Commander at Armageddon II).

Basically, a mini-Primarch and costed appropriately.

Aka he should be like 250pts but be oh-so-worth his points cost

....just don't give him +1A and that's it <face palm> that's already the issue with his 8th ed incarnation

 

Fluff:

Above all else, Dante is a leader by example. His ability to stave off the Black Rage for so long is an inspiration to every single Astartes that bears the blood of their genesire. "You there, Initiate in the trench line: you too can control your rage no matter what the odds. Why? Because I have."

And just like his genefather, he serves as an examplar of war, taking the fight to the enemy, showing all on his side that he will always be found where the fighting is thickest, That he is their golden salvation come from on high with fiery wings of justice to smote the enemy's champion by hand.

Dante would be the first to get transmogrified Primaris-ified, not out of vanity or self-importance, but to lead by example: to take the first risk. Like a general being vaccinated in front of his weary troops.

 

 

 

Great post! The bit I highlighted in red was somehting I knew, but the significance of it never really clicked. At this point, even guilliman only has maybe 400 years combat experience, and only half of that in the 41st Millenium. He'd never seen a Tyranid/Necron/Tau/Dark Eldar/Genestealer cult etc until 200 years ago. 

 

I'd love to see something that truly reflects Dante as a god of the battlefield. 

 

---------------------------------

 

My only real issue with Primaris Dante would be that I was hoping to do Flesh Tearers with my Primaris marines

 

 

The 1500 years might be a bit off, 1000 years+ as Chapter master, no one knows how old he really is (unless that's being released in a novel) and no one has a clue how long he could live, there's no record (that i know of anyway) of a marine dying of old age, let alone a BA doing so and we are supposedly the longest lived.