The inevitable Primaris Dante

[Arkangilos]

The 1500 years is from Dante, we actually get his age by when he becomes a regular space marine, so we can calculate the years (it says what year it is). He was close to 1550 by 999.M41 Edited December 2, 2018 by Arkangilos

[Guest]

And he is without a doubt probably the best Space Marine Commander.

 

I would be very sad if they killed him.... Maybe if Tycho survived (another great character..) He could have passed it to him.

 

If Dante becomes Primaris he will be a instant buy no hesitation.

 

 

 

Sangiunus is the soul then Dante is the heart of the Blood Angels :)

[Escaflowne_Z]

I would rather that he gain an ability to reflect his leadership in the Imperium. I'm fine with his raw statline and combat prowess now.

[Brother Cruoris]

Have you guys seen the new rules/stats for Marneus Calgar at warhammer community?

I would have loved to see something like that for Dante after reading Devastation of Baal.

[Guest]

Have you guys seen the new rules/stats for Marneus Calgar at warhammer community?

I would have loved to see something like that for Dante after reading Devastation of Baal.

 

I have high hopes for Dante and other Chapter Masters :)

[Nova_Dew]

 

Have you guys seen the new rules/stats for Marneus Calgar at warhammer community?

I would have loved to see something like that for Dante after reading Devastation of Baal.

 

I have high hopes for Dante and other Chapter Masters

 

 

I kinda have a feeling they won't get touched, they're not blue enough for GW to do anything with, or im getting more cynical then ever and ever so slightly depressed after its a case of yet more UM's sent to save the Imperium Nihilus because the forces there apparently aren't blue enough to handle it. 

[Indefragable]

based on the new rules for primarisified Calgar, then my hopes for Dante are up as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Dante is a bit more combat and mobility oriented, however.

 

 

Calgar before:

Hidden Content

M    WS    BS    S    T    W    A    Ld    Sv

5"    2+      2+     4    4    7     5     9      2+

 

4++ invuln + halving any damage taken

 

Gauntlets of Ultramar (shooting): 24" Rapid Fire 2 S4 AP-1 D:2

Gauntlets of Ultramar (melee): Melee Sx2 AP-3 D:D3

 

Chapter Master: re-roll all To Hit for <Chapter> in 6"

 

+2CP for including him in your army

 

WLT: 5+ CP is refunded when using a Stratagem while alive.

 

Calgar after:

Hidden Content

M    WS    BS    S    T    W    A    Ld    Sv

6"    2+      2+     4    5    8     6     9      2+

 

4++ invuln + halving any damage taken

 

Gauntlets of Ultramar (shooting): 24" Rapid Fire 2 S4 AP-1 D:2

Gauntlets of Ultramar (melee): Melee Sx2 AP-3 D:D3

 

WLT: 5+ CP is refunded when using a Stratagem while alive.

 

 

Dante now:

Hidden Content

M    WS    BS    S    T    W    A    Ld    Sv

12"    2+    2+     4    4    6     6     9      2+

 

4++

 

Death Mask: -1Ld to enemies in 3"

Axe Mortalis: S+2 AP-3 D:D3 re-roll failed To Wound vs <Characters>

Inferno pistol: S8 AP-4 D:D6 at half range roll 2D6 pick highest for Damage

 

Chapter Master: re-roll all To Hit for <Chapter> in 6"

 

WLT: 6" auto-pass Morale tests for friendly BA

 

 

speculation on Dante:

Hidden Content

M    WS    BS    S    T    W    A    Ld    Sv

13"    2+    2+     4    4    7     7     9      2+

 

4++

 

Death Mask: -1Ld to enemies in 3"

Axe Mortalis: S+2 AP-3 D:D3 re-roll failed To Wound vs <Characters>

Inferno pistol: S8 AP-4 D:D6 at half range roll 2D6 pick highest for Damage

 

Chapter Master: re-roll all To Hit for <Chapter> in 6"

 

WLT: 6" auto-pass Morale tests for friendly BA

 

Based on the fact that Calgar basically got +1 T, W, and A, I think we can expect the same marginal increase for Dante, though it would make sense for him not to get a Toughness upgrade in lieu of something reflecting an emphasis on mobility or such. As such I cynically guesstimated that they'll give Dante +1" to movement. B/c no one can be better than the smurfs. Ever. In anything.

 

Ok...cynicism aside, something like the below is a bit more appropriate for how I (and I'm sure others as well) think he should be re-worked (Emprah knows he needs it):

 

Dante as he should be:

Hidden Content

M    WS    BS    S    T    W    A    Ld    Sv

12"    2+    2+     4    4    7     8     9      2+

 

4++

 

Death Mask of Sanguinius: -1Ld to enemies in 3" and enemies reduce their attacks by 1 when targeting this model (to a minimum of 1).

Axe Mortalis: S+2 AP-3 D:D3 re-roll failed To Wound vs <Characters>

Dante's Trusty Inferno pistol: S8 AP-4 D:D6 at half range roll 3D6 pick highest for Damage

 

Chapter Master: re-roll all To Hit for <Chapter> in 6"

 

Lord of Angels: f Dante is in your army, you may choose him to gain any one of the abilities listed under "Blood Angels Warlord Traits." This is in addition to any abilities he receives for being selected as your Warlord. In addition, Dante and friendly units locked in combat with the same enemy unit as he may Fall Back and Charge in the same Turn.

 

Millenia of Service: Anytime you use a Stratagem affecting a friendly unit, roll a D6. On a 5+ that Stratagem does not cost CP. If this roll is successful, you can not use this ability again until the next Turn

 

WLT:

Regent of Imperium Nihilus: Any aura abilities affecting Dante are increased by 3"

Hidden Content

subtle trick here: if there's a Lieutenant within 6" of Dante, then Dante would essentially "relay" that ability another 3" out

Edited December 4, 2018 by Indefragable

[Guest]

based on the new rules for primarisified Calgar, then my hopes for Dante are up as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Dante is a bit more combat and mobility oriented, however.

 

 

My hopes are for Dante to be more deadly in combat, I REALLY hope his leadership ability is taken into account maybe a 12" aura.... Lets not forget Tu'Shan and Marneus were happy to "Bend the knee as such"

 

He is one of the most if not the most respected Commanders of the Imperium with the exception of Guilliman.

[Morticon]

The posts here have been great- and sadly only serve to induce the onset of rage even sooner.  

Dante has really, really been dealt a poor hand in terms of the representation of his history :/  

Very poor form. 

[Orblivion]

Even as much as I love the current Sanguinary Guard kit I can't seem to get enough of all the new Primaris sculpts, so how cool would it be to get a new Primaris Sanguinary Guard kit alongside a new Dante.

[Indefragable]

Even as much as I love the current Sanguinary Guard kit I can't seem to get enough of all the new Primaris sculpts, so how cool would it be to get a new Primaris Sanguinary Guard kit alongside a new Dante.

 

Hope you like paying for just 2 models that are not sold seperately from the Dante kit.

[Indefragable]

 

based on the new rules for primarisified Calgar, then my hopes for Dante are up as well.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Dante is a bit more combat and mobility oriented, however.

 

 

My hopes are for Dante to be more deadly in combat, I REALLY hope his leadership ability is taken into account maybe a 12" aura.... Lets not forget Tu'Shan and Marneus were happy to "Bend the knee as such"

 

He is one of the most if not the most respected Commanders of the Imperium with the exception of Guilliman.

 

 

Dante should be the single most all-around-powerful non-dreadnought, non-weird-warpy-psychic-cheese, non-Primarch human character in the setting. It's not a Mary Sue sentiment to think so, since the background material supports it, the ways the background supports it, and the setting has historically supported it (and I don't need to preach to the choir here).

 

When I say that, I am not saying that he should be the bestest at everything imaginable. No, like any true character, he should be better at some things than others and have some things that others are better at than he. In this case, the likes of Calgar or Azrael should have a bit more in the command/buff detachment, Grimnar can be more adaptable (the 1H vs 2H axe thing is neat-o), and Draigo can be hardier. But the sum total of Dante's abilities should put him at the top for a single model. And be priced appropriately. Just like with Guilliman, one should have to stop, think, and really consider whether or not you want to build your army around a legend like Dante.

 

I want all Chapter Masters and cool characters to have cool, effective, fun rules. So this is not a diss on any other faction or army. But simply put, anything less than the best does not do Dante justice.

[Guest]

Well I agree Dante is without a doubt the best of the best when it comes to Chapter Masters and hopefully he will get rules to show that.

 

 

 

What weakness does he have thou?

 

he is probably the oldest Marine, over 1500 years of warfare vs every enemy the Imperium has.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Brother Sgt Arkley

[Nova_Dew]

Well I agree Dante is without a doubt the best of the best when it comes to Chapter Masters and hopefully he will get rules to show that.

 

 

 

What weakness does he have thou?

 

he is probably the oldest Marine, over 1500 years of warfare vs every enemy the Imperium has.

He's old so... He likes to tell everyone he meets stories,

while fighting a CSM;

Dante -

Hi my name is Dante, it's nice to meet you Heretic scum, you remind me of George the Destroyer, maybe you know him? 

I fought him on CX-357823-3895 200 years ago, maybe, could have been 220 years, you know what it's like, he had horns on his helmet too, though his were more curlier, they don't grow horns like that anymore. Anyway... he had three arms though, quite a nice guy, for a Heretic, well I say his name was George the Destroyer, I just call him that because i purged him before i got to ask his name... oh I seemed to have purged you some time ago... who have i been talking too this whole time?

[Lord Raven 19]

If Dante gets better then Shrike had better get a battery for his claws

[Paladin777]

 

 

Well I agree Dante is without a doubt the best of the best when it comes to Chapter Masters and hopefully he will get rules to show that.

 

 

 

What weakness does he have thou?

 

he is probably the oldest Marine, over 1500 years of warfare vs every enemy the Imperium has.

He's old so... He likes to tell everyone he meets stories,

while fighting a CSM;

Dante -

Hi my name is Dante, it's nice to meet you Heretic scum, you remind me of George the Destroyer, maybe you know him?

I fought him on CX-357823-3895 200 years ago, maybe, could have been 220 years, you know what it's like, he had horns on his helmet too, though his were more curlier, they don't grow horns like that anymore. Anyway... he had three arms though, quite a nice guy, for a Heretic, well I say his name was George the Destroyer, I just call him that because i purged him before i got to ask his name... oh I seemed to have purged you some time ago... who have i been talking too this whole time?

Thanks, you just made my evening!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I feel like the axe mortal is should be a mortal wound on an unmodified wound roll of a 6.

 

I also think Sanguinius' mask should a -2 LD modifier while also reducing all melee attacks within 3" of him to a minimum of 1.

 

Included in that should be Lord of the Host. If Dante is your war lord you gain an additional +3CP to your total command points.

 

Lastly, give dante something that allows a reposition of d3 units or something.

 

And I wouldn't be mad if they brought back the Spear of Teslo.

[Majkhel]

I totally agree with the +CP and Mortals wounds. They should come by default for someone like Dante.
Sure, Calgar is Ultrasmurf and they are logisticians blah, blah, blah. But Dante has THE experience. And was commanding Calgar at least on one occasion (Armaggeddon). 
Axe Mortalis.... the very name screams mortal wounds.


Kinda off-topic - unconfirmed, but the oldest living loyalist might actually be Cypher. There are of course several "if's" for that to be true. 

[Panzer]

So is this still a Primaris Dante thread or a general Dante wishlist thread? Because all the Primaris upgrade did for Calgar was giving him +1A and +1W. The rest comes from his armour or he had it before already. :D

[Majkhel]

You clip our wings! Dante needs his rules revised (or even entirely re-engineered), Primarification gives an opportunity to do just that.

Current model is for Commander Dante, Lord of the Blood Angels.

Future model may/should be for Dante, Lord of the Blood Angels legion reborn, Regent of Imperium Nihilus.

 

For Calgar nothing really changed, apart from the fact, that he commands Ultramarines a little less than before Guilliman's return. And he still got something nice in the form of the CP battery.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Majkhel

[Captain Caine 24th]

It was always one of my very favorite bits of fluff that even captain Lysander couldn't remember a time when Dante wasn't in command of the blood angels--and he was lost in the warp for 1000 years.

 

My bet: BA will go full primaris. But, New characters like the chaplain and Terminator captain instead of updates. Dante model stays old like abbadon. Instead, BA gets a primarch or equivalent based in the (questionable) lore of a new campaign book to justify whatever warp abomination/ new sanguinor we all rush to buy because it has awesome rules.

 

That being said, I love Dante and I hope I'm wrong. Actually i think this year might be the twentieth anniversary of me buying the model... What a bad paint job it was.

[Spagunk]

Here is my hot take on this:

 

Dante WON'T got primaris-sized. I read the current fluff as hinting that the Rubicon actually memory wipes individuals which is a huge sticking point highlighted in the Dante and BAAL novels. Dante seemed disturbed to be forgetting so much of his previous life but most of all he considers his memories instrumental in keeping himself humble. So I predict he won't go that way. HOWEVER, I do predict he will encourage the new batch of Sanguinary Guard to do so. The exception being the last surviving member which would be prime opportunity for some sort of SG character but I digress.

 

BUT I feel as though at some point in the next couple of years they're going to do a Imperium Nihilus campaign which should show case Dante leading a type of crusade. This should lead to a more appropriate scale version of him and could be the way to intro any primaris derived units coming out of that.

 

All wishlists and speculation so not really anything to add but that's how I think it will go down.

[Arkangilos]

Where did you read about the memory wipes? Can you quote it?

[Spagunk]

Where did you read about the memory wipes? Can you quote it?

 

So I don't know if this is an honest question or not but I think I read something about the Rubicon in the Dark Imperium and Plague Wars books. Furthermore, Regimental Standard eludes to this with regards to Marneas Calgar's "Rebirth through the Rubicon". Been too long since I've last read some of this but it's definitely not a "Step 1: Enter Rubicon, Step 2: Lose memories..." type of statement if that's what you're asking.

 

The main point is that the Rubicon isn't a cake walk and leaves lasting impressions on those who undergo the process. It's not safe in general but it does allow for Primaris to exist.

[Panzer]

 

Where did you read about the memory wipes? Can you quote it?

 

So I don't know if this is an honest question or not but I think I read something about the Rubicon in the Dark Imperium and Plague Wars books. Furthermore, Regimental Standard eludes to this with regards to Marneas Calgar's "Rebirth through the Rubicon". Been too long since I've last read some of this but it's definitely not a "Step 1: Enter Rubicon, Step 2: Lose memories..." type of statement if that's what you're asking.

 

The main point is that the Rubicon isn't a cake walk and leaves lasting impressions on those who undergo the process. It's not safe in general but it does allow for Primaris to exist.

 

 

I haven't read Plague Wars yet but as far as I know the Rubicon was complete news to the community when Calgar got revealed (aside from that one comment in the livestream over a year ago). Could you be mixing things up here?