The inevitable Primaris Dante

[cerberus_]

Is it wrong that I don't want dante to become a primaris? I always liked the idea of each space marine chapters sturggling with their chapter's flaws; BA doubly so. For BA it gave them the kind of tragic greek hero aspect that I liked.

 

Primaris remove any kind of internal struggle BA have, and literally turn them into red marines. Seeing one of the most iconic characters go that route would disappoint me.

[Panzer]

Is it wrong that I don't want dante to become a primaris? I always liked the idea of each space marine chapters sturggling with their chapter's flaws; BA doubly so. For BA it gave them the kind of tragic greek hero aspect that I liked.

 

Primaris remove any kind of internal struggle BA have, and literally turn them into red marines. Seeing one of the most iconic characters go that route would disappoint me.

 

They don't. People need to stop saying that. The Red Thirst is still there for Primaris and the Black Rage may come back at any time but it's too soon to say it will or not.

[Leonaides]

False impressions and rumours are half way round the world before the truth has got its boots on. Far too many people gossip/brag/guess and pass it off as proven truth which then gets repeated in an echo chamber till unthinking readers assume theres so much chat about it it must be true. Always has been like this, but the internet has sped up and amplified the process. Even the black rage suffers fron this. Its possibly not even that common for a marine to imagine he is sanguinius while in the grip of it, or at least thats what the earliest descriptions implied. But that was the 'headline statement' that got repeated and simplified, without the qualifiers. And now we get ZOMG! Death comp are all sanguinius's...

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I hope they stay just flawed by the red thirst and not the black rage. I hope primaris never get the death company treatment.

 

It is an ode to how Blood Angel's were during the HH. And I find it more appealing to be lost to the red thirst struggles than to be lost to the red thirst and the black rage.

 

Dante becoming a Primaris does not change that fact. Plus Corbulo sees primaris lose themselves to the thirst and the savage butchery that insues leaves him worried.

 

That's a huge deal and doesn't make BA red marines only.

[Arkangilos]

 

 

Where did you read about the memory wipes? Can you quote it?

So I don't know if this is an honest question or not but I think I read something about the Rubicon in the Dark Imperium and Plague Wars books. Furthermore, Regimental Standard eludes to this with regards to Marneas Calgar's "Rebirth through the Rubicon". Been too long since I've last read some of this but it's definitely not a "Step 1: Enter Rubicon, Step 2: Lose memories..." type of statement if that's what you're asking.

 

The main point is that the Rubicon isn't a cake walk and leaves lasting impressions on those who undergo the process. It's not safe in general but it does allow for Primaris to exist.

It was an honest question, lol. That's why I was wanting the quote so I could see what it said.

[Ornithologist]

Just saw some leaks that put Dante's new cost at 175. thoughts?

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/PVf1Vsr

[Spagunk]

Blech, nothing in those leaks that addresses encarmine weapons. Generally okay but still gets a "booo" from me.

[The Unseen]

Meh on Dante's new cost. Better of course, but he still cost's 45 more than a suitably equipped smash captain, for dubious extra value. Will definately keep from feeling like quite such a kick in the teeth if you love him and use him anyway though.

Mephiston getting a 15 pt hike is kinda dumb, similarly Lemartes getting slimmer makes little sense, as he was one of the few choices I thought was worth it before.

 

Sanguinary Guard/Baal Preds/DC being untouched makes me think nobody at GW remembers those units exist, especially with the drops to power fists, vanguard vets, and storm shields. Vanguard vets with storm shields are probably the new hotness.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Meh on Dante's new cost. Better of course, but he still cost's 45 more than a suitably equipped smash captain, for dubious extra value. Will definately keep from feeling like quite such a kick in the teeth if you love him and use him anyway though.

 

Mephiston getting a 15 pt hike is kinda dumb, similarly Lemartes getting slimmer makes little sense, as he was one of the few choices I thought was worth it before.

 

Sanguinary Guard/Baal Preds/DC being untouched makes me think nobody at GW remembers those units exist, especially with the drops to power fists, vanguard vets, and storm shields. Vanguard vets with storm shields are probably the new hotness.

Maybe something is changing in the vigilus campaign? Rumor is Codex marines are getting a new book in February.

[Irbis]

I have also no difficulties in seeing GW release some 'historical' range as part of one event or other. That could potentially include even limited Primaris Tycho (with options for a DC as well, cause: why not?).

 

Um, why would they do that? Tycho was dead for hundreds of years even before GW advanced the timeline, that is about the least probable BA new model, especially considering DC angle.

 

Anyway, I'd like for the new Dante (if there is one) to actually do a little curveball and be based on Reiver armour, not Gravis. Just add jump pack to the grav backpack, detailing similar to primaris Chaplain, and you're done. They even have similar masks to Dante/SG, and Dante could really use their grenades...

[Orblivion]

Um, why would they do that? Tycho was dead for hundreds of years even before GW advanced the timeline

No he wasn't. Tycho died during the 3rd war for Armageddon, which started in 998.M41, only a year before the Devastation of Baal.

[Majkhel]

 

Um, why would they do that?

To sell some limited figures and get money ofcourse ;) . I meant something along the line of collection stuff they do for Japan market. Fluff would be meaningless, as the idea is to release a collectors edition of something.

Totally off-topic though.

[Xenith]

 

Um, why would they do that? Tycho was dead for hundreds of years even before GW advanced the timeline

No he wasn't. Tycho died during the 3rd war for Armageddon, which started in 998.M41, only a year before the Devastation of Baal.

 

As per Orblivion...but if you read the BA codex, the retcon is that Primaris were present at Armageddon 3. Which I don't particularly agree with, but GW are muddying the water. 

[Arkangilos]

Well depending on how long Armegeddon lasted that would make sense. He still was probably dead before they showed up (or were they there in then beginning?)

[Xenith]

Well depending on how long Armegeddon lasted that would make sense. He still was probably dead before they showed up (or were they there in then beginning?)

You make a very good point - I believe Armageddon 3 is still ongoing, which means that there could indeed be Primaris.

 

GW were sneaky in that all the company icons on the image are concealed, making it hard to tell what company, apart from Karlaen and the archangels.

[Indefragable]

FLG is doing a walkthrough of Vigilus book.( https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/12/11/signals-from-the-frontline-special-edition-vigilus-review/ 21:30 in)

 

Calgar's Victrix Honor Guard are S4 T4 3W 4A 2+/3++ and can take wounds for a friendly character like Company Vets.

 

Optimistic me: "wow! I can't wait to see what happens with transmogrified Sanguinary Guard!"

 

Cynical me: "great, now Bobby G is even more a crutch since he can have multi-wound bodyguards suck up all his failed saves (and then be healed/rez'd by an apoth)"

[Panzer]

Yeah I've already seen the Datasheet for the Guard. Nothing special. They have the bad bodyguard rule and are as expected purely melee and their profile isn't that special either. Considering that Calgar and Guilliman are used best in melee as well it kinda pushes UM players to a more aggressive, almost BA like, playstyle. I'm curious whether it works out for them or not.

[Indefragable]

Yeah I've already seen the Datasheet for the Guard. Nothing special. They have the bad bodyguard rule and are as expected purely melee and their profile isn't that special either. Considering that Calgar and Guilliman are used best in melee as well it kinda pushes UM players to a more aggressive, almost BA like, playstyle. I'm curious whether it works out for them or not.

 

Theoretically speaking, if primaris-ified SG were the same exact profile + jump packs, it would be beautiful: 3W 2+/3++/5+++ with SoS units that can eat wounds for a character and get both +1S and healed/rez'd by a Sanguinary Priest is a beautiful thing. But let's be realistic, nothing can ever be better than UM for any reason, so SG will prob be a shooty unit and they won't allow us to do jump Sang Priests anymore.

[Panzer]

For a 3++ SG would have to use Storm Shields for some reason so probably not. :P

 

Also meh on the anti-UM comment. It's not my favourite chapter but there are so many things better than Ultramarine stuff that it's really not fair to say anything like that anymore. GW uses them to advertise their game but they have been far from being the strongest Marines on the table for a very long time now.

[Brother Crimson]

Couple of things I hope:

1- he gets T5 because gravis jump pack

2- extra wound and attack as primaris

3- the death mask becomes the face of hope, granting autopass morale.

4- new cool warlord trait

5- cp bonus as warlord

[neonmole]

If there is one thing I hope doesn’t happen, it is that he takes on the inceptor (flying gravis) aesthetic. Wouldn’t suit at all.

[Adorondak]

 

 

• GW is phasing out older models previously only in finecast and has been for the past several years - plastic Grimnar, Ulrik, Khârn, Typhus, Ahriman, etc.

Counterpoint: They're still making NEW models in Finecast.

 

See: Sly Marbo and Eisenhorn

 

As to Primaris'd Dante, how about this theory, which my friend put forward last night when we were doing a build & paint session at his place:

All of the fluff has been bringing up Dante being so old, so tired and wanting to die. We KNOW for a fact the Primaris Rubicon almost killed Calgar, who's YOUNGER than Dante. His theory: Dante will die to show how dangerous said process is. BUT, Blood Angels will get a Rubicon Primaris marine. And it will allow the Blood Angels to get something like Sanguinius reborn.

 

And that marine, is Mephiston.

 

He brought up all the fluff pointing out that Mephiston GREW in size after what happened to him, and how he's basically channeling so much warp energy. Perhaps the reason why Mephiston was able to break out of the Black Rage was because Sanguinius spirit touched him, literally.

 

And this, Blood Angels will get a new Mephiston model, and a new Chapter Master. A Psyker Chapter Master, who's borderline Guilliman size, because Mephiston is, in the fluff, ALREADY the size of a Primaris marine.

This is right along the lines of something I was talking about in my own games group recently. Someone asked what the craziest, most insane thing that could never possibly happen in the fluff but that wouldn't surprise us if it did was. My answere: Sanguinius is going to be reborn in the 41st millenium. How, they asked. Easy, Mephy goes in for the primaris upgrade, and we discover that when he beat the black rage his body became as close to sanguinius as it was possible for him to become, then with the primaris god maker strengthening his body it's finally able to complete the transformation. Then we discover the black rage is caused because a litteral part of sanguinius pysche has become lodged in each of his gene-sons (kinda like how the old eldar fluff used to, and maybe still does, claim that each avatar is an actual fragment of Khaine) and when his body is reborn, it uses mephis pysche powers to suck up all those fragments and reboot sanguinius brain. Sanguinius reborn, and black rage cured to boot.

 

Like i said, craziest, most insane, probably never could (or should!) happen but with papa smurfs rebirth, it kinda feels like all bets are off...

[Panzer]

I'd say it's more likely for the Sanguinior to become Sanguinius than Mephiston, but yeah very unlikely for either to happen. Not impossible tho. :P

[Dont-Be-Haten]

After reading Spear of the Emperor. The process to becoming a 2nd generation marine from 1st is going to be a high risk gamble.

 

What all they have to do might mean Dante stays a 1st generation marine. I hope he survives of course. But I really think they could use this method to remove characters from the lore. If Dante were to survive, which I think it really would be a coin flip, he would indeed become much more powerful.

[Nova_Dew]

After reading Spear of the Emperor. The process to becoming a 2nd generation marine from 1st is going to be a high risk gamble.

 

What all they have to do might mean Dante stays a 1st generation marine. I hope he survives of course. But I really think they could use this method to remove characters from the lore. If Dante were to survive, which I think it really would be a coin flip, he would indeed become much more powerful.

 

They wont remove anyone with a model, see Death Company Tycho and normal Tycho still being in the dex, the only one that has ever been removed was the 3rd edition BA standard bearer who had the death shroud of Sang... and no model