The inevitable Primaris Dante

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

7 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

They need the story somewhere, either in a novel or a campaign book. Seeing as Dante doesn't look like being part of Arks of Omen (unless he is sharing Book 5 with the Lion), I guess a novel seems more likely.

After the reveals my money is on Dante getting killed by Angron and getting resurrected as Primaris after another "I'm tired boss" vision of Sanguinius. They nedd to give some win to Angron besides another pointless Primarch duel. I am also dissapointed that they shoved BA into the book. What's the point of Imperium Nihilus if everyone can just pop up where plot needs them? - the cooperation with DA makes no sense.

[Majkhel]

I guess BA were added probably as a nod to the old Angels of Death codex. Plus Imperium Nihilus is our turf.
But if you're right Ayatollah, then it kinda irks me that we need to be rescued whenever something big comes :P

[Blindhamster]

looks like we are indeed in book 5, the model images shown shows BA and DA fighting vs nurgle demons

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

4 hours ago, Majkhel said:

I guess BA were added probably as a nod to the old Angels of Death codex. Plus Imperium Nihilus is our turf.
But if you're right Ayatollah, then it kinda irks me that we need to be rescued whenever something big comes :P

From the article it seems that it will be us + Lion saving DA:

 

The Key-fragments have been gathered, but the Dark Angels have begun a quest of bloody retribution, pursuing information extracted from a captive Black Legionnaire.* What they find is a revelation that will shock them to the core – one so incredible that even the cool head of Grand Master Azrael is clouded by righteous fury.  Against them stand Vashtorr, Abaddon, and Angron. This trifecta of terrible tyrants is too much for any force of heroes to overcome, but the timely arrival of Lion El’Jonson and Dante’s Blood Angels may yet snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. If only the Lion had always been this good at turning up to sieges on time…

 

Valrak's rumours said that Lion is not on the Rock as have been acting from shadow for some time so it here ties nicely with him being separated from the main body of DA and arranging BA reinforcements - IF the article is reliable and not random hype rambling.

 

I was more aiming my critique at the fact that travelling into and through Imperium Nihilus is really easy for main characters. Only because IN is our turf (or rather it should be very many turfs we're slowly trying to make into our one turf), doesn't mean we need to be in every major event on that side of galaxy. And are we sure it will be in IN? The Rock was on the other side of the Rift, does AoO III mention that its crossing? Maybe we will cross to them?

[Spagunk]

I wonder if maybe Lion may have a means of creating an astronomicon on the nihilim side? There is historical precedence for it (RE end and the death) so perhaps there may be hope?

I think it would be interesting to have another video where you hear dante reading all of the horrible terrible astropathic cries of defeat/losses but the visuals are all about hope and maybe the Lion showing up as a crescendo? Sort of a reverse to the 10th edition one.

[Jolemai]

Certainly possible. The lore tie in with the Lion's return and how he recognises Dante will be fascinating. 

[Blindhamster]

I’m sure it’ll be interesting however it pans out, I fear Dante may indeed be a punching bag narratively. 
 

but it’s still interesting that they’re having the two chapters together, I wonder if we will get a proper reaction to the mask, guilliman instantly recognised it as sanguinius’ face so presumably the lion will too.

 

personally I’m hoping we get another novel out of guy, they’ve been some of his best imo 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I’m sure it’ll be interesting however it pans out, I fear Dante may indeed be a punching bag narratively. 
 

but it’s still interesting that they’re having the two chapters together, I wonder if we will get a proper reaction to the mask, guilliman instantly recognised it as sanguinius’ face so presumably the lion will too.

 

personally I’m hoping we get another novel out of guy, they’ve been some of his best imo 

It would be so lazy and such bad writing to have lion coming to the rescue of Dante and the BA. No way they recycle that plot.

 

the way I see it likely playing out is the lion gives chase to vashtorr who I believe retreated to the same region the fallen are gathering, and either summons more support than just his chapter, and obviously Dante responds either personally or by sending a large portion of the BA and the fleet he’s been building, thus leading to the rumors of the AoD codex or plot line.

either that or the lion gets suckered into a trap and Dante and the BA are the rescuers.

 

there’d be no need for Dante to lose to angron, to justify going primaris, iirc he’s still suffering from wounds that he received during DoB, that’s enough to justify him crossing the rubicon.

[Arkangilos]

7 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

personally I’m hoping we get another novel out of guy, they’ve been some of his best imo 

Agreed. I also think he and ADB are the ones that get the BA the most. Between the two of them they have had the best depictions of the BA.

[Blindhamster]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

It would be so lazy and such bad writing to have lion coming to the rescue of Dante and the BA. No way they recycle that plot.

 

the way I see it likely playing out is the lion gives chase to vashtorr who I believe retreated to the same region the fallen are gathering, and either summons more support than just his chapter, and obviously Dante responds either personally or by sending a large portion of the BA and the fleet he’s been building, thus leading to the rumors of the AoD codex or plot line.

either that or the lion gets suckered into a trap and Dante and the BA are the rescuers.

 

there’d be no need for Dante to lose to angron, to justify going primaris, iirc he’s still suffering from wounds that he received during DoB, that’s enough to justify him crossing the rubicon.

The more I think about it, the more likely I feel a rescue from the lion will be, I just can’t see GW having the BA come to the rescue of the lion in this, I’d like Dante and the Blood Angels to not be used as a punch bag but really do think that’s what we will be.

 

the trailer for Dante has Dante beaten and battered before being made primaris, now technically he has been beaten and battered since devastation of Baal, but I suspect it’s going to be “worse” due to events in book 5

[Cleon]

I don't think either the Blood Angels or the Lion needs to come to the rescue of the other - If the Lion turns up in Nihlus away from the Dark Angels, he'd need to call up troops to go help lift the siege of the rock, why wouldn't he look to a force he recognizes and knows where to find (i.e. a Chapter wearing Legion colours based on a legion homeworld) to his side?

[WrathOfTheLion]

Not sure, but I do like the tag team of Dante coming into that story.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

8 hours ago, Cleon said:

I don't think either the Blood Angels or the Lion needs to come to the rescue of the other - If the Lion turns up in Nihlus away from the Dark Angels, he'd need to call up troops to go help lift the siege of the rock, why wouldn't he look to a force he recognizes and knows where to find (i.e. a Chapter wearing Legion colours based on a legion homeworld) to his side?

Like i said either BA come to rescue them

or the lion simply requisitions more forces and BA are a part of that.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/29/the-hunt-is-on-in-the-lion-son-of-the-forest/
 

if BA are involved in the Lion’s story line it’s not to be a punching bag based on this.

[Paladin777]

Well, here it is. I'm pretty underwhelmed with the rules, but 7 attacks base is pretty meaty. The perdition pistol being more than just a bog standard inferno pistol is kinda nice too. The Axe Mortalis still having identical stats as a relic blade is pretty disappointing though. 

 

Overall, I think the upgrades are worth the extra 10 points, but the special rules being identical to what they were is kinda meh to me. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/j8RZPimZ8WjYzH9O.pdf

 

This all being said, I can't say I'm very surprised, given that 10th is right around the corner. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Paladin777

[Blindhamster]

He also far from sucks with the rules as they are. 
 

he’s a great all round character

[Paladin777]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

He also far from sucks with the rules as they are. 
 

he’s a great all round character

Don't get me wrong. He's absolutely pretty solid... just kinda boring. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Paladin777

[Paladin777]

That said, I'm perusing other primaris chapter masters, and I'm seeing that they are all really pretty comparable. 

Dante's 8 attacks on the charge (9 if in assault doctrine) is quite nice, and his defensive statline is pretty impressive for a jump unit.

 

Calgar is much tougher, but also far slower and less killy. Shrike is faster, but Dante is just a smidgen more Killy (THP notwithstanding) and a little tougher. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Paladin777 said:

Well, here it is. I'm pretty underwhelmed with the rules, but 7 attacks base is pretty meaty. The perdition pistol being more than just a bog standard inferno pistol is kinda nice too. The Axe Mortalis still having identical stats as a relic blade is pretty disappointing though. 

 

Overall, I think the upgrades are worth the extra 10 points, but the special rules being identical to what they were is kinda meh to me. 

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/j8RZPimZ8WjYzH9O.pdf

 

This all being said, I can't say I'm very surprised, given that 10th is right around the corner. 

idk know what calgar's rules as a FB were but azzy's rules all remained the same with the exception of the standard primaris upgrades

[The Unseen]

3 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

idk know what calgar's rules as a FB were but azzy's rules all remained the same with the exception of the standard primaris upgrades

Azrael's sword went up in both strength and damage, things Dante desperately needs, at least the damage for sure. Having Dante running around with mechanically a bog standard relic blade is incredibly meh. He gets a good number of attacks, and fights on death for free, but that's basically it. Into anything with -1 damage he's incredibly anemic. That and Azrael and Calgar both give you more CP, which feels pretty dumb when they lead a chapter and Dante leads half the IoM. I would happily have left the inferno pistol as standard if his melee output would be brought up to par with even Azrael.

[Spyros]

I'm also a bit disappointed by not improving the Axe Mortalis' damage (mortal wounds for Throne's sake!).

 

But, in all fairness, there seems to be a consistency with the distant past. When Dante appeared in 2nd edtion he was armed with just a power axe, only his pistol was unique. At the same time Azreal did own the Sword of Secrets.

Likewise, Dante led from the front while Azrael and Calgar were more like strategists and offered increased Strategy Rating. This is reflected a bit by them offering more CPs, contrary to Dante.

 

We still have a bit of increased melee protection in the form of the Death mask of Sanguinius. In 2nd ed it offered the Dante the Terror psychological ability, which was dope (and one scale up than Fear).

 

I like the damage increase on the pistol, but the beam function is difficult to utilize at such small range, even buffed by 3".

Mobility is our watchword.

[b1soul]

I'm guessing his rules will be buffed a bit after tenth arrives?

[Blindhamster]

I doubt it, his rules are far from bad, he’s never been the most powerful chapter master, often trailing behind others over the editions (I remember the dark times where he was one of the only major marine characters that lacked eternal warrior lol).

 

his rules feel pretty good to me:

- he provides bonuses to nearby units and a better bonus to a single unit

- he grants a bonus cp but then also gets to do an epic deed for free, effectively meaning he actually technically grants 3, just two of them are based on him doing the blood angel thing of leading from the front and probably dying.

- his death mask means he’s harder to hit than almost any other chapter master

- he has more base attacks than any of the other chapter masters, and gets more still from the doctrine ability, he wounds most things on 2s or 3s, and will still happily cut through most armour, yes the axe only does damage 2 which is a shame.

- the perdition pistol is cool, closer to the actual relic it should be for the first time in forever and is pretty brutal frankly (automatically benefiting from the melta rule at all times and hitting multiple targets, since he hits on 2s, it’s good).

- he is the 2nd fastest chapter master after shrike

 

 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

I doubt it, his rules are far from bad, he’s never been the most powerful chapter master, often trailing behind others over the editions (I remember the dark times where he was one of the only major marine characters that lacked eternal warrior lol).

 

his rules feel pretty good to me:

- he provides bonuses to nearby units and a better bonus to a single unit

- he grants a bonus cp but then also gets to do an epic deed for free, effectively meaning he actually technically grants 3, just two of them are based on him doing the blood angel thing of leading from the front and probably dying.

- his death mask means he’s harder to hit than almost any other chapter master

- he has more base attacks than any of the other chapter masters, and gets more still from the doctrine ability, he wounds most things on 2s or 3s, and will still happily cut through most armour, yes the axe only does damage 2 which is a shame.

- the perdition pistol is cool, closer to the actual relic it should be for the first time in forever and is pretty brutal frankly (automatically benefiting from the melta rule at all times and hitting multiple targets, since he hits on 2s, it’s good).

- he is the 2nd fastest chapter master after shrike

 

 

Yeah people are complaining but he’s just fine.

 

i don’t really track what everyone says,  but how many people complaining about his fine balanced datasheet wanting him to be significantly stronger, are the same ones complaining about things being imbalance and codex creep in other areas?

[Paladin777]

I wasn't looking for some significant increase like damage three. Just a little something to differentiate it from the bog standard Relic blade would be nice. Maybe a MW on 6's to would for an extra few points would've been fine.