Robbienw Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 ‘Same old but a bit closer to ideal art proportions’ perhaps :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 You know what Mk X has always reminded me of? Apart from that, a change in scale opens the floodgates for loads of other stuff... 'truescale' Guard anyone? Now CA might not help C:SM that much and I certainly feel it's actively trying to 'encourage' us to leave Tac Squads and Devastators at home (Seriously, Hellblasters are... can't resist... a blast!), but on the other hand, the Drop Pod has... dropped? Come down in cost? Geez, I'm on a roll today I was planning on taking one or two before CA, but now? For an Infantry-oriented army, they're a nice, fluffy and now not quite as mad choice. Add to that the big sale on Special Weaponry and while Primaris might still have an edge, any Oldmarine force can pack more of a punch now nonetheless. And always remember: at least you're not playing Grey Knights Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213470 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 The only pod I still took from time to time was the lucius and it stayed the same :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Ok. I'm leaving the "Truescale" discussion up as a way to show everyone a good example how it's off-topic. Please make a new thread over n the Forge for that discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213686 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 The rejig of special weapon costs is what helps out Tac Squads, but you'll only see a benefit if you're one of us stubborn fools who, you know, actually ran Tac Squads. I'm a mite busy in the short term, but I'm curious to see what my lists will look like after the adjustments make it into Battlescribe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 The rejig of special weapon costs is what helps out Tac Squads, but you'll only see a benefit if you're one of us stubborn fools who, you know, actually ran Tac Squads. I'm a mite busy in the short term, but I'm curious to see what my lists will look like after the adjustments make it into Battlescribe. This... this right here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5213850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deafbok Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 You know what Mk X has always reminded me of? Apart from that, a change in scale opens the floodgates for loads of other stuff... 'truescale' Guard anyone? <Snip> "I am Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite post on the B&C boards" Look, as one of those who spent all my spare cash as a student between 5th & 7th ed on drop pods, I'm still not happy with them this edition but CA definitely looks like it's going to help. I'm eyeing up some chapter veterans with el cheapo storm shields... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamiel Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 How are you guys enjoying Codex: Scout Marines after Chapter Approved 2018? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 How are you guys enjoying Codex: Scout Marines after Chapter Approved 2018? Dunno, I'm still trying to make Codex: Primaris Lieutenants work. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruor Vault Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 I thought it became Codex:Contemptor Mortis Dreadnoughts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 How are you guys enjoying Codex: Scout Marines after Chapter Approved 2018? Ha! After? That's all I saw prior, to be honest. Scouts. Scout bikes. Even the scout character. Next to Guilliman. Because clearly the master of mankind would naturally fight alongside neophytes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 GW has magical spreadsheet with points distribution . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Because clearly the master of mankind would naturally fight alongside neophytes. Gotta start somewhere :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Look, as one of those who spent all my spare cash as a student between 5th & 7th ed on drop pods, I'm still not happy with them this edition but CA definitely looks like it's going to help. I'm eyeing up some chapter veterans with el cheapo storm shields... Well, I had already started painting a Pod before CA leaks had even hit - I don't like tanks, so I don't have a better option... But those things are just plain awesome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5215685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basteala Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Plasma Devastators might be a thing. Granted without WFTDA they're not as good as they would be in DA, but...29PPM for D3 S8 -3 2 damage shots? 124 for the squad? OG Marines have a place, there. Granted that's only because devastators stack big guns and that's where most of SM's point savings are for OG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Plasma Devastators might be a thing. Granted without WFTDA they're not as good as they would be in DA, but...29PPM for D3 S8 -3 2 damage shots? 124 for the squad? OG Marines have a place, there. Granted that's only because devastators stack big guns and that's where most of SM's point savings are for OG. No reason to take Hellblasters with that option now. Add boltgun marines for ablative wounds and blast from range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Just want to address this topic. It's wrong The best units in the top armies in the game have not seen price reductions, so the top lists are unchanged. Many marine units were reduced so the army is indeed better comparatively than it was last week. CA has helped Space Marines. Not enough to change the meta, but it has helped. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 You know what Mk X has always reminded me of? Apart from that, a change in scale opens the floodgates for loads of other stuff... 'truescale' Guard anyone? <Snip> "I am Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite post on the B&C boards" Look, as one of those who spent all my spare cash as a student between 5th & 7th ed on drop pods, I'm still not happy with them this edition but CA definitely looks like it's going to help. I'm eyeing up some chapter veterans with el cheapo storm shields... As a lesson it seems it's best to not own more than 3 of a given model kit and magnetize wherever possible. Real talk what would 1500 points of hqs look like? If taken as cheaply as possible with respect to Rule of 3? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I have never been impressed by plasdevs. Devs should be used for anti armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216444 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Biggest issue I have with Plasma Devs is the micromanagement you have to go through if you overcharge. Each models #shots and hitrolls have to be rolled and looked at separately (cuz 1 model could roll 3 attacks and roll 1's on all 3's, and another model could roll 1 attack/no 1's, etc ad infinitum permutations) on that. Just takes soooo long. So annoying. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Hellblasters are way better being able to move and shoot with no natural penalty. Devs are a direct throwback unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Hellblasters are way better being able to move and shoot with no natural penalty. Devs are a direct throwback unit. Devastators have 36" inch range for (on average) 2 shots a piece. Hellblasters only get 2 shots at 15". All depends on what you want to do with them. Devastators can deploy in backfield ruins, and pretty much have LOS to something the whole game, without needing to move. Devastators also get a free Signum. They can also get cheap transports (rhino, razorback, drop pod) that hellblasters can't. If you like hellblasters better that's fine, but I don't know that they are "way better" than Devs. Also I'm not sure what you mean by "throwback" unit. Devastators are actually one of the few Astartes profiles that currently works out of all the OG Space Marine datasheets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 CA has helped Space Marines. Not enough to change the meta, but it has helped. It has helped Marines in a literal sense, that they've received changes and a fair number of them; but due to the location of these changes and the inherent flaws with Marines it hasn't helped them to become more than bottom tier. Is that a better, more accurate wording? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Whether they are still bottom tier or not remains to be seen. With cheaper veterans they have a good chance to be a serious threat again. That being said even bottom tier are not as far away from mid tier than it used to be in 7th edition so casual gaming should feel a big improvement. Maaaaaybe competetive as well but I wouldn't hold my breath on that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Hellblasters are way better being able to move and shoot with no natural penalty. Devs are a direct throwback unit.I don't see the value in moving TOWARDS the things that kill you for the most value. Sorry, but I'm not sure why moving into rapid fire range of plasma in order to fire that second shot makes sense. Devs gain access to ablative wounds, make damage 2 weapons less effective in points efficiency, outrange and outshoot Hellblasters, and don't actually need to move to get the most out of their kit. They're also cheaper. I don't see any value whatsoever in Hellblasters now. They don't even have a cheap option for protection. Biggest issue I have with Plasma Devs is the micromanagement you have to go through if you overcharge. Each models #shots and hitrolls have to be rolled and looked at separately (cuz 1 model could roll 3 attacks and roll 1's on all 3's, and another model could roll 1 attack/no 1's, etc ad infinitum permutations) on that. Just takes soooo long. So annoying. You should be doing this for Hellblasters, too. Just because they each fire 2 shots instead of a variable number doesn't mean you should avoid rolling one at a time. You would hate to have two 1s equal two casualties when they might be from the same model's shooting. Secondary to that, I do not recognize "ease of dice rolling" as a valid benefit. That leads you down the path of thinking the heavy option is viable, as it's always one shot per model, and we all should know by now the heavy is trash. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352187-ca-won%E2%80%99t-help-sm/page/5/#findComment-5216611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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