Joukernaut Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I run a double grav flux leviathan occasionally and it does horrific damage when it is in range. And that is the biggest problem it has, 18 inch range is very easy to avoid. That being said, auspex scan on a unit of 40 boys dajumping towards you is hilarious. 18 D3 shots hitting on 3+, wounding on 2’s is great. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5336752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkyHamHam Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 I'm the same way, Cap. I was initially going to suggest a back field wisdom dread for the Hunters until I actually looked at them haha. @Joukernaut: I don't think Auspex Scan can be used on vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5336811 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Would be sick if Repulsor could use the Auspex Scan stratagem. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5336850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 I run a double grav flux leviathan occasionally and it does horrific damage when it is in range. And that is the biggest problem it has, 18 inch range is very easy to avoid. This is my biggest concern, well after 1st turn death of course. Thankfully, with movement 8" and the Eternal War missions, I should be in range of something juicy fairly quickly. It'll take careful management. Forcing opponents to get closer, because of the mission or terrain, will be critical. Putting the Leviathan in the centre of the board is another way to dominate objectives too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5336989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 So I built a Brigade I actually felt was competitive at 1750pts, which I can treat as a core to add units to for 2000pts competitive games too. In that case... 1750pts Brigade HQ Captain - Teeth of Terra and Mastercrafted Bolter Librarian - Bolt Pistol and Force Staff. Telepathic Assault and Psychic Shackles Chaplain - Bolt Pistol and Crozius. Warlord - Adept of the Codex. Seal of Oath Either the +1 to hit or +1 to wound Litanies ELITES Chapter Champion - Imperium's Sword Company Veterans ×5 - Storm Shields and Storm Bolters In a Rhino Redemptor Dreadnought - Heavy Onslaught Cannon, Onslaught cannon, Storm Bolters and Icarus Missile Launcher TROOPS Tactical Marines ×10 - Plasma, Combi Plasma and Grav Cannon In Rhino Tactical Marines ×5 - Combi Plasma and Heavy Bolter Tactical Marines ×5 - Combi Plasma and Heavy Bolter Scouts x5 - Sniper rifles Scouts x5 Scouts x5 HEAVY SUPPORT Hunter Hunter 3 Centurions - Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters. Sergeant has Mastercrafted Hurricane Bolters FAST ATTACK Typhoon Land Speeder - Heavy Bolter Typhoon Land Speeder - Heavy Bolter Attack Bike - Heavy Bolter This list is lacking in infantry, with 15 of them being Scouts and 4 of them being characters, but I'm actually happy with it because it has quite a lot of target saturation from the vehicles. Firepower is quite good, with the Seal of Oath doing some heavy lifting. It is designed for taking advantage of early turns in the Devastator Doctrine before shifting to the Tactical Doctrine later on. Honestly, the amount of heavy weapons I've got in this list I'm tempted to stick to the Devastator Doctrine for at least 2 turns, but I have options which is crucial. The Captain and Chapter Champion act as a tag team, with 8 and 8 attacks on a charge, all bar 1 at Damage 2. I'd like more Troops and a Techmarine in truth, but in a game of 40K you can't take everything and expect to be competitive due to the lack of focus. I haven't actually bought a Redemptor yet, but I'm thinking perhaps I could use a Venerable Dreadnought on its place. However, the Redemptor is there to soak fire for the Rhinos, especially with Duty Eternal. What do people think about this list and the odd circumstances of achieving a Brigade? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5371851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I like the idea of building a brigade, but I also think it's worth looking at your list again. Since the list is building for CP I think it's key to build for stratagems that boost your killingpower and maybe some tactical ones as well. Building a brigade means spending point on suboptimal choices, so getting the most value out of your stratagems is key. It's probably wise to have several units to spend command points on. I haven't looked at the stratagems yet to make any decent recommendation, but one that springs to mind is the thunder fire cannon one. (firing 8D3 shots at AP-2 due to the devastator doctrine or the chance to mess with the speed of two of the opponent units can be very valuable). I also think you lack the firepower to deal with knights, although the relic will help with this. The +1 to wound litany is also great of course, but the knight would have to be the closest, or you would have to remove all the chaff in front of it first. You might want to roll the dice a couple of times to see if you can reliably take out a knight with your fire power in one turn, if not I recommend taking a look at options that will help to do this (maybe switch the centurions for grav devs in pod?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Thanks for the things to chew on. You're right of course; if I'm building for CPs then I need to take advantage of what they're used for. I'll go away and have a little look at my list of usable moves. (I do have a Thunderfire somewhere...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Captain, you are looking for a brigade without primaris right? Or are you looking into adding primaris to your ultra force? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 No I'm not. The scale is wrong for a cohesive and uniform looking army mixed in with my existing collection. Obviously vehicles work as they aren't to the same scale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 I agree, it is a balance between filling out a Brigade or multiple Battalions to get enough CP to "fuel" the engine of your army, but you also need enough quality units to use them on/get the most "bang for your buck," so to speak. Some of the "top value" Ultramarine units, in my opinion, from each of the FOC bins are as follows: HQ -Phobos "Sniper" Captain with "Marksman's Honours" WL Trait (for +1D on Instigator Bolt Carbine) -- Awesome for sniping 4W characters and denying enemy deep strikes -Chaplain Cassius -- Great value overall for all his rules/Wargear and, importantly, knows two Litanies and can use two Litanies a turn -Marneus Calgar -- Even more CP, very dangerous in close combat, tough to take down, and provides re-rolls all game long for your army (can extend his aura to 9" with Stratagem as well) TR -10 man Intercessor Squad -- Tough, can make use of UM Doctrines and rules, and benefit greatly from the "Rapid Fire" Stratagem (i.e. 40 x S4 AP-2 shots at 30", even when moving) -5 man Bolter Scouts with either Heavy Bolter or Missile Launcher -- Great for cheaply filling out list/holding objectives, plus can use "Flakk Missile" and "Hellfire Shell" Stratagems; also, can take Land Speeder Storm DTs to turn them into hyper mobile Objective Grabbers late game. EL -Ancient/Apothecary -- Both are great for buffing/getting the most of 3+ Wound models like Aggressors, Inceptors, Centurions, HQ Characters, etc. -Aggressors -- Amazing against hordes and also for protecting your lines against melee focused armies, plus can fight well in Melee with Strats like "Honour the Chapter" -Relic Whirlwind Scorpius -- With AP-3 from Devastator Doctrine, plus the ability to shoot twice and be buffed by Captain Auras/ Chaplain Litanies, this is one of the top "elite infantry killers" in the game and can do its job even without LOS (i.e. a buffed up Whirlwind Scorpius can kill an average of 10 Primaris Infantry in a single shooting phase) FA -Scout Bikers -- Great for grabbing objectives, tying up enemy shooty units, whittling down hordes, and cheaply filling out Brigades (can use "Skilled Rider" Strat to get a 3++ as well) -Inceptors -- Pretty amazing "dragoon" style units that have mobility and toughness (up to 3W each, now), but can also put out a lot of Assault Bolter or Plasma shooting HS -Devastator Centurions (Hurricane Bolter/Grav Cannon) -- With the right supporting characters and Stratagems (i.e. Grav Amplification, Transhuman Physiology) they are very hard to kill and devastating against hordes, heavy infantry, and vehicles alike -Thunderfire Cannons -- As mentioned, great for hitting enemy out of LOS, plus can use "Tremor Shells" Strat to really hinder your opponent's mobility -Rapier Carrier with Laser Destroyer -- Amazing candidate for the "Martial Precision" Strat, as you can have an automatic hit by the Laser Destroyer even against a -3 to Hit Eldar Flyer and, with good rolling, potentially "one shot" it -Leviathan Dread with dual Stormcannon Array -- Ridiculous damage potential (especially with Devastator Doctrine and Chaplain Litany buffs), can use Scions of Guilliman or the "Big Guns Never Tire" Strat to still move and shoot at BS2+ all game long, and can use "Duty Eternal" Strat to become even more durable Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 If I can get an Apothecary for the Centurions then I will but points are very tight. A Leviathan with Duty Eternal is solid and dangerous. Alongside a Techmarine he'd be pretty obnoxious. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joukernaut Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Leviathans are probably a very solid choice to spend CP on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372545 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulinus Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Throw a chaplain next to it for the litanies of faith and give it a 5-6 Fnp... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Throw a chaplain next to it for the litanies of faith and give it a 5-6 Fnp... ...vs mortal wounds. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5372738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I’m really digging company champion now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5373851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Chapter Champions you mean. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5373861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Yeah you’re right. Battlescribe has a fantastic setup for iPad to custom design them. How are you getting eight attacks ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5373872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 25, 2019 Author Share Posted August 25, 2019 - A Chapter Champion has 5 attacks. - Shock Assault is +1 - Imperium's Sword is +1 - Champion's Blade is S:user AP-2 That's 8 attacks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5373902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Nice. Where’s Imperium’s Sword listed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5373949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Nice. Where’s Imperium’s Sword listed? Codex Space Marines Warlord Trait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5374095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Update - I tested the latest list against my friend's list for hyper competitive play. It was an ITC game which I've never played before. The list was slightly changed so my 2 fire support Tactical Marines Sergeants had Storm bolters and Chainswords, with a Lascannon in 1 of those squads. I made the mistake of taking 1750pts vs his 2000pts and lost by 1 VP, largely because I didn't realise victory conditions correctly for the first 2 turns. So I am buzzing with that! A game I could have easily won had I had 250pts extra or just kept my head anyway. Performance analysis: i) Tactical Marines - amazing fire support for the army though I used the Rhino squad out of frustration against the Leviathan that couldn't fail saves until turn 3. ii) Chapter Champion - killed a Chaplain followed by an entire unit of Intercessors and was a terror. Would have killed a 2nd unit of Intercessors and won me the game by several points had my friend not assumed incorrectly his Captain caused Mortal Wounds on 6s but hey ho. iii) The Hunters were too tough to kill and provided keen fire support. A competitive choice by a long way. iv) The Typhoons and Attack Bike were great fire support also and were a constant worry for opponents. v) Seal of Oath was amazing. Nothing more to say. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5378571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 Why did you only take 1750pts? I want to try the Primaris Bash Chaplain Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5378631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 It wasn't deliberate that's for sure. I built a core competitive list and forgot we agreed to play 2000pts this time. A Primaris Slap Chap isn't a bad move but the following things require careful consideration- you have to take a transport to get him into position and he needs a decent attendant bodyguard unit so he isn't solo fighting and fails his appropriate Litany which is crucial to his performance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5378667 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 You’re opponent should have scaled down his list imo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5378673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 You’re opponent should have scaled down his list imo. Likely that Idaho just forgot they were playing 2,000pts (which he said); and the opponent didn't realise that he was playing "up" - nothing to chastise, just a human error. Idaho: great job on the game! I find ITC games to be more interesting, and you can usually find some way to claw your way into the end game unless your army gets demolished in two turns flat! Glad to hear about the different units. Could you expand a little bit on how the Hunters performed? For 75pts they seem damn solid. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352282-idaho-is-going-back-to-tournaments/page/4/#findComment-5378681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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