neonmole Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Hi guys So I have known this for a week or so, but thought I would hold off til the book is actually out in the wild. You may be familiar with the “Indomitus Crusaders” detachment that is in the new Vigilus Defiant book. Basically, it’s a special detachment that allows you to represent Veteran Primaris forces of the indomitus crusade. It’s quite good, and very, very fluffy! Especially for those of us that have read Devestation of Baal! Unfortunately, RAW, we can’t use it right now... This is because it states that you can use it on a “Space Marines Detachment”. These is no keyword here, usually it would be something like, “pick an <Adeptus Astartes> detachment, but it’s not... This makes the most obvious interpretation then that you can only use it on a detachment chosen from the “Codex: Space Marines”. This in itself is problematic when you get into mixed Astartes soup detachments, but I digress... The key thing here is that it is at the very least unclear, (and RAW most likely illegal) if we can use it on Blood Angels (or DA, SW for that matter), which I think is a terrible shame. I built my Primaris Blood Angels for with precisely that theme in mind, and we know from books like Dark Imperium, and Devestation of Baal, that the Blood Angels geneseed was present among the forces of the Grey Shields and Unnumbers Sons that made up the forces of the crusade. Call To Action Therefore I propose that anyone else who cares about this, (or who just wants to help!) send a short email (right now!) to 40kfaq@gwplc.com, highlighting how unclear the wording is on the rules of this detachment, and more importantly, how unthematic and at odds with the narrative it is! Cheers, and thanks for chipping in! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I had asked about this on facebook and they said it would be passed on, but happy to email too!Email sent, I described my position as a player that bought into primaris heavily, i mentioned that at the vigilus weekender the designer in the seminar said the intent was for it to be available to all space marine chapters, not just codex space marines, i mentioned that from a lore perspective they were all included and also that my own force has always been themed around being the force that came to provide support at the end of devastation of baal. I wouldn't bet on it getting any kind of official clarification, but we can hope. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5215887 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The4thHorseman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Sent and email as well, I did my Part. Yay! I'm helping! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5215919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
brother_b Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I just fought orcs with 150 attacks on a blob of boys, and free rerolls to charge. I'm thinking there are some other issues we should all mail as well. Just saying. As far as the detachment stuff, I'll email that as well. Good catch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5215928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Duly sent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5215994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Sent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5216452 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Anyone got an email template for the sake of consistency? If so i'll drop them one too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217268 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Probably better to word it personally tbh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 This might help clarify. But the rules writers might of intended something else, hopefully the feedback will include us in a potentioal new faq. http://remtek.be/40k/sm.png Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonmole Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 Intersting, that does actually clarify it concretely. While not the answer I wanted, it does remove ambiguity! That said, narratively, blood angels clearly should be able to use this detachment, so from that perspective we still have a credible position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 RIP Emperor's Spears chapter tactics that were given away with the Ltd Edition xD Also, done - emailed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217348 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquid Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Due to the wording of the detachments rules, only codex space marines should use it. One of the strategems allow you to change chapter tactics, which isn't applicable for blood Angels. (or wolves, deathwatch etc..). Thematically I get where your coming from. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah the wording in the book is clear. But they said the intent was everyone at the seminar (But did mention it may not be worded like that). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
killersquid Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I don't know anything about a seminar, but I guess as long as you ignore the grey shields warlord trait, everything else would work without issue for blood angels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I was at the seminar and the one that asked the question there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonmole Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 I mean, the grey shield hardly makes it incompatible with BA rules wise. It’s not like having a second book with you is anything out of the ordinary at thier point. Granting a random chapter tactic for a turn is not breaking the game in combination with red thirst any more than it is with any other tactic. Given the clarification of “Space Marine Detachment” kindly provided above, I think it’s pretty unlikely we get access to this. That said, it makes me sad as these specialist detachments were supposed to be narratively driven first and foremost, and not offering this to BA is really unfortunate given our newest background, and what I am sure a lot of us had in our minds eye with recent projects. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Sent ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5217952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkhel Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Sent as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5218195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyslugger Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Sent also Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5218558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 RIP Emperor's Spears chapter tactics that were given away with the Ltd Edition xD Also, done - emailed. To be fair we never got reinforcements from the crusade, we were given the technology through a custodes entourage. So it doesn't make sense from a fluff perspective. However, many of tr primaris are 100s of years old now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5218600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malios Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 The more you cry out to have the same as every other space marine army, the more you risk becoming "just another red coloured space marine chapter." Ask the Black Templars fans how that felt. I can wait for something unique. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5218863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 The more you cry out to have the same as every other space marine army, the more you risk becoming "just another red coloured space marine chapter." Ask the Black Templars fans how that felt. I can wait for something unique. That's a very narrow view on it. People aren't clammoring for the same as other marines (although I've been of the view that all marines should be in one book, wolves and all), people are suggesting that something that should be available to all marines (DA and Wolves alike) should be available. Especially as the intent and lore says all marines. I don't see anyone brgrudging the other detachments, only the one that should have been available to everyone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5218993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 BH has it right. I'm okay with all marines being in the same book. With variation available based on each specific entry being in their own section. The Codex:Space Marines needs a makeover and I'm sure it will be better for BTs in the near future. But things that make sense for everyone are things we are petitioning for. Imperial space marine, power swords on BA's intercessors, storm talons, etc. Things that are marketed towards a player base, or that are in the lore should be available to those adeptus astartes factions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5219033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I'm not. The vanilla Codex is already the biggest Codex of them all even without all the chapter specific units and other chapter specific stuff. Marines are simply too fleshed out to treat them the same way as other factions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5219066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont-Be-Haten Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I'm not. The vanilla Codex is already the biggest Codex of them all even without all the chapter specific units and other chapter specific stuff. Marines are simply too fleshed out to treat them the same way as other factions.You hardly even play astartes. :P Besides rolling all of the space marines into one book would only be about 30 pages. It wouldn't change anything, and would make it easier to streamline the game. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352358-indomitus-crusaders-call-to-action-please-read/#findComment-5219187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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