Indomitus Crusaders - call to action, please read!

[Blindhamster]

I'm not. The vanilla Codex is already the biggest Codex of them all even without all the chapter specific units and other chapter specific stuff. Marines are simply too fleshed out to treat them the same way as other factions.

Do it as 2 books, like the heresy does.

 

One for all the basic stuff with perhaps some generic chapter tactic options included.

 

Then a legendary chapters book that covers specific chapter tactics, warlord traits, relics, a few characters and special units for the more prominent chapters.

 

It works there so absolutely could work for 40k.

 

Different topic anyway and I only mentioned it in response to the comment about being rolled in.

 

On topic for the thread, I'd just like to see this detachment made generic for all chapters and updated to include the option to gain the other 3 major chapters trait via the greyshield warlord trait.

[Panzer]

 

I'm not. The vanilla Codex is already the biggest Codex of them all even without all the chapter specific units and other chapter specific stuff. Marines are simply too fleshed out to treat them the same way as other factions.

Do it as 2 books, like the heresy does.

 

One for all the basic stuff with perhaps some generic chapter tactic options included.

 

Then a legendary chapters book that covers specific chapter tactics, warlord traits, relics, a few characters and special units for the more prominent chapters.

 

I honestly don't see the improvement that is supposed to bring. Instead you'd have to carry around an additional book which people seem to hate a lot.

[Panzer]

 

I'm not. The vanilla Codex is already the biggest Codex of them all even without all the chapter specific units and other chapter specific stuff. Marines are simply too fleshed out to treat them the same way as other factions.

You hardly even play astartes.

 

Says who? ^^

[redshadow]

We'll get our own unique rules and formations when the narrative calls for it

[Charlo]

The issue with the 2 book approach, is that the games now been designed around a 1 book approach for too long.

 

There are too many unique BA units/ Characters/ Options/ Rules.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I mostly just rely on BattleScribe but I have a sturdy back to carry all the written rules.

[Gundric]

I've a feeling when Abbadon turns up in Vigilus book two, we will have to swoop in and save the day again, maybe with a rubiconed Dante!

[Panzer]

I doubt that. I don't see us taking part in this campaign at all. Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Not every chapter can appear in every campaign and there are already a ton of chapters present. I'm sure there's more than enough work in the Imperium Nihilus for us even without Vigilus. ;)

[Gundric]

Very true, If I remember rightly, the Imperial Knights book mentions a waaagh about to hit Krastellan, and with House Hawkshroud spread thin Valhallans and th BA are mustering to help. Well reminded, thank you.

[Blindhamster]

Yeah I wouldn't expect BA to be involved in the campaign and probably won't get any rules love for another year I would bet.

 

If GW were smart they'd have aimed to coincide a 40k BA release with the 30k one, because it would increase the hype on both and maybe even cause some cross pollination.

[Panzer]

I'm not even mad or sad about not getting specialist detachments for a while. They look interesting, in some cases fun even, but nothing where I'd think I really really need or want to use it. I'd be WAY more interested in new Primaris models, especially if they're melee ones. A sword&board Troop choice would literally make my day and I'd replace all my Intercessors even if they were worse lol

[Blindhamster]

I guess the reason neonmole and I in particular are upset about this detachment in particular is it's quite literally exactly what we imagined our forces as based on the lore provided in devastation of baal, dark imperium and our codex. So it's a bit of a gut punch to be denied it for no apparent reason.

[Lemondish]

I guess the reason neonmole and I in particular are upset about this detachment in particular is it's quite literally exactly what we imagined our forces as based on the lore provided in devastation of baal, dark imperium and our codex. So it's a bit of a gut punch to be denied it for no apparent reason.

I don't think you really need to explain. Us DW fans are also feeling a bit left out from something that looks like it should be available to every marine force with Primaris.

[Panzer]

Yeah I completely understand you. It's a bummer but to me personally not a big one considering how many CP I would have to invest to get some use out of it. I like the idea of the Indomitus Crusaders detachment but I think the execution isn't done that well.

[neonmole]

I guess the reason neonmole and I in particular are upset about this detachment in particular is it's quite literally exactly what we imagined our forces as based on the lore provided in devastation of baal, dark imperium and our codex. So it's a bit of a gut punch to be denied it for no apparent reason.

Exactly this, hit the nail on the head.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Was listening to this podcast... at around 33:30 Reecius talks about using Blood Angels Intercessors with the veteran upgrade -

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0vcnM3l49I

[Brother Lunkhead]

My email is......sent

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My mistake - he changed the subject.

[Kasper_Hawser]

@ Neomole - As a Space Wolves player who also wanted to use the Indomitus Crusaders detachment, I've also sent my e-mail.

 

Hi to whom it may concern at GW FAQ team,

 

My name is <my real name>, and I'm play and collect Space Wolves. In regards to the Vigilus Defiant Campaign, I've noticed that the wording is rather strange and seemingly restrictive, as it says it applies to "Space Marines" detachment. This seemingly excludes all the other non-codex compliant chapters such as Blood Angels, Space Wolves and Dark Angels. 

 

Can I clarify if this is the intention of the rule, to be only used by those chapters in the Space Marine Codex? It just seems a shame that the other chapters, whose Primaris forces have also been part of the Indomitus Crusade for a century under Guilliman, are unable to take part in the awesome rules that is the Indomitus Crusaders. While I understand it may be to avoid confusion as certain Primaris units are renamed to suit the parent chapter, e.g. Primaris Captain = Primaris Wolf Lord = Primaris Master, I believe a simple table to equate certain names with the keywords for the different chapters should suffice, as the 3 variants of Primaris Captain I named above or the same in all but name, down to wargear and stats. Ditto for Intercessors, Lieutenants, Ancients etc.

 

I hope your fantastic team is able to clarify this by the next big FAQ. While I like the Stalker Pack for my Space Wolves, I would also like to try out the Indomitus as well.

 

Thank you for your time and hope you can reply to me personally, otherwise just address it in your next FAQ.

 

Sincerely,

 

Mr. <my real name>

 

That being said, I saw that actually they already specified what Space Marine units are, which are strictly speaking only the chapters in Space Marine Codex. So I guess that locks the rest of us out. I will still plan an Indomitus Crusade list using Space Wolves, but will use what I deem to be the most reasonable judgement when the wording isn't clear. For example, Wolves, Dark Angels and Blood Angels may not have chapter tactics per se, but Hunters Unleashed, Grim Resolve and Red Thirst are chapter tactics in all but name in my reckoning, so I'll use that reasoning for Grey Shields warlord abilities.

 

I hope you are right when you said that in the seminar the Indomitus was meant for everyone, but they goofed on the wording in the campaign book.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Just curious, with the way its worded, whether CF will be able to use this? Also I'm pretty sure the grey shield will enable CF tactics to be used? Pitty DA and BA can't though as their respective tactics would work fairly well with this detachment.

[Bryan Blaire]

I don't know, it specifies that one of the faction keywords that can use it is <Chapter> - last I checked, Blood Angels, Emperor's Spears, Space Wolves, Angels of Absolution/Vengeance, etc., are all Chapters and they have a <Chapter> keyword that corresponds.

 

I believe that the idea was to limit it to Codex based Chapters as written though, as that same text is used in Codex: Space Marines, but is not found written in that fashion in the SW, BA, DA, DW, or Gk 'Dexes.

 

So I would think that Emperor's Spears would probably be fair game as a <Chapter> keyword, while the rest are unlikely - besides, the DA and SW got Specialist Detachments of their own - but it doesn't make a lot of sense for those Chapters to have members who were in the Indomitus Crusade per GW's own writings and those Chapters not be able to use the detachment - IMO the argument can be made, you just might not get an easy agreement from everyone.

 

This might help clarify. But the rules writers might of intended something else, hopefully the feedback will include us in a potentioal new faq. 

 

 

http://remtek.be/40k/sm.png

I've been over my digital copy of the Vigilus book several times now, and I'm having a hard time finding that particular clarification - do you happen to know what page it's on, I'd like to bookmark it, because that clarification has some interesting implications for some of the campaign text and Echoes of War missions, it'd be nice to have that blurb handy for discussion.

[Panzer]

I don't know, it specifies that one of the faction keywords that can use it is <Chapter> - last I checked, Blood Angels, Emperor's Spears, Space Wolves, Angels of Absolution/Vengeance, etc., are all Chapters and they have a <Chapter> keyword that corresponds.

 

I believe that the idea was to limit it to Codex based Chapters as written though, as that same text is used in Codex: Space Marines, but is not found written in that fashion in the SW, BA, DA, DW, or Gk 'Dexes.

 

So I would think that Emperor's Spears would probably be fair game as a <Chapter> keyword, while the rest are unlikely - besides, the DA and SW got Specialist Detachments of their own - but it doesn't make a lot of sense for those Chapters to have members who were in the Indomitus Crusade per GW's own writings and those Chapters not be able to use the detachment - IMO the argument can be made, you just might not get an easy agreement from everyone.

 

This might help clarify. But the rules writers might of intended something else, hopefully the feedback will include us in a potentioal new faq. 

 

 

http://remtek.be/40k/sm.png

I've been over my digital copy of the Vigilus book several times now, and I'm having a hard time finding that particular clarification - do you happen to know what page it's on, I'd like to bookmark it, because that clarification has some interesting implications for some of the campaign text and Echoes of War missions, it'd be nice to have that blurb handy for discussion.

 

 

Huh ... never noticed that <CHAPTER> is included. I guess that means BA etc can use it as well afterall? 

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

Ah it does include CF, never mind. Curious how the Grey Shield trait interacts with their chapter tactic.

[Lemondish]

Ah it does include CF, never mind. Curious how the Grey Shield trait interacts with their chapter tactic.

Until an FAQ or errata, it looks to not include it in the options for selection.

[Bryan Blaire]

Alright, figured out that this bit:

http://remtek.be/40k/sm.png

comes from the Codex: Space Marines (page 194), not Vigilus Defiant.

 

It also says (same page): "Note that other Space Marine Chapters, such as the Blood Angels and the Space Wolves, deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. These Chapters therefore cannot make use of any of the rules or abilities listed in this section, and instead have their own rules."

 

Since it says "this section" and doesn't extend this set of definitions found in the Space Marine Units beyond that, I'm not sure that it's entirely clear that it does apply to the Vigilus book. I'm inclined to believe that it does, because this is the only place that a "Space Marines Detachment" is really defined, and because all the other Specialist Detachments specify a Chapter keyword (Ultramarines, Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists, Black Templars, Dark Angels, Space Wolves) seems to indicate to me that there is supposed to be something specific about the term "Space Marines Detachment."

 

Definitely need a FAQ on this one, IMO. I don't really see why the other Marines forces with Codexes that had Primaris in the Indomitus Crusade wouldn't also get something like this or access to this specific Specialist Detachment, but I am not a GW rules author either.