Sword Brethren - Vigilus Special Detachment - And You

[Iago]

Brothers. The Vigilus book has given us access to a cool new formation - Sword Brethren.

Certain characters get the bonus as well as the Company Veteran squads.

 

I wanted to focus on these. company veterans are only one point more then a regular marine for one extra attack and they get access to a lot of special weapons both shooting and combat.

 

However, they can only be taken in 2-5 man squads ... so , are they worth it ? They gain access to the two cool strategems that give them Fnp for a fight phase and another that gives them +1 a and re roll wounds.

 

I feel like the high marshal would be a great choice to go with these units and make them deadly in close combat, so I wanted your ideas Brothers !

 

At the moment I am considering 5 veterans with chainswords and stormshields for 80 points. Cenobytes and an apothecary with Helbrecht to fill the vanguard detachment and make it a sword brethren detachment. Is it worth it ?

[lhavoc]

It also has the HOLY ORB OF ANTIOCH!!!!!!!!!!

[Acebaur]

I was actually getting ready to post a thread on this very topic, so good timing!  

 

I think they are very much worth it. Take probably 2 squads of them with Helbrecht and they can become very scary. Though since PW are so cheap I would kit them with those over chainswords.  This is because Helbrecht gives them re-rolls to hit and +1S and you can get more attacks and re-rolls to wound with the strat. 5 guys with power swords and SS clock in at just 100 points and will kill an average of 10 MEQ in a round of combat. I think running a few of the newly reduced PF is also a good option and with two of them with SB come in at just 10 points more for some extra killing power against multi-wound models. 

 

My dilemma right now is for the second squad I plan to run, should they be equipped similarly or maybe have some combi weapons to take advantage of Helbrecht's Aura?

 

How is everyone else planning on running these guys now?

[Marshal_Roujakis]

hmmm... seems like time to break these bad boys out:

Power Weapons pair of Lightning Claws, Helbrecht, Razorback... sounds like a road trip...

[The Spanish Inquisitor]

It also has the HOLY ORB OF ANTIOCH!!!!!!!!!!

 

One, two, FIVE !!

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Five is right out!

[Firepower]

Unfortunate that we can't give the Warlord trait to our special characters.  But my biker marshal should enjoy it.

[Brother Talarian]

I think it depends on what army you’ll be facing. For an all comers list I’d lean towards a cheaper squad that can pack a punch. What ace suggests is pretty solid.

 

That said, I like the concept of a full unit of thunder hammers. They would pack a horrific punch vs just about anything they get into contact with. However, they are likely to attract a lot of attention.

 

I’m thinking of running two Company Vets with some heroes and an apothecary. The Coompny vets can soak some wounds from the characters and the apothacary can bring them back (or heal characters as well)

 

Having a mix of maybe 2-3 SS to soak high AP weapons and 2-3 ranged weapons might be a good mix to take advantage of Halbrecht’s aura.

[Firepower]

I lean towards spamming power swords with shields.  

[Brother Talarian]

I lean towards spamming power swords with shields.

Definitely the coolest option imo.

[Iago]

I like the idea of the str 5 power swords and shields ... I think that’s a very efficient load out for decently cheap.

[Marshal Laeroth]

I am also going to utilize a 5-man squad of Power Sword/Storm Shield Vets...led by Helbrecht, my warlord Captain, and the EC. Stuffed in a drop pod together. Helbrecht-star. Vets eat wounds for the characters. Profit.

 

Will also be using SS/SB units since they are dirt ball cheap.

[Firepower]

Could fit an Honor Guard in that pod too, by my count ;)

[redmapa]

I think that for two points Storm Shields are a must have and with power weapons being so cheap I honestly dont see much value in giving them Chainswords, yes the extra attack is great but as an army we are not lacking S4 AP0 attacks so whats the point? Personally Im planning on using power axes and power fists mainly because they look great and while the power fists have a penalty to hit the +1A will kind off set it and rerolling to wound will come very useful against tougher targets, I will leave the power swords for the bike veterans that Im building next year.

 

What about transport? What are you guys think might the best option for them? I guess it depends on the role you want the unit to have, a Razorback for them if you want a counter-charge unit or  Drop Pods for more offense now that they are cheaper than a Rhino, someone suggested the idea of having a 5 man shooty unit go along with Sword Brethren in a unit and I thought that would be a good idea, perhaps some sternguard or a crusader squad with Heavy/Combi/Special setup so you drop in, shoot and then charge. I could see a similar setup in a Land Raider spearhead type of list, just 3 raiders each with 5 SB and 5 Crusaders, maybe not very optimal but I think its a good use of your troop and elite slots to complement each other and the land raiders.

[Brother Talarian]

Would you guys consider running Grimaldus and Halbrecht together? The auras make it redundant, but I’m thinking Grims explosive 6s as well as the strat could make for some melee units.

 

If not maybe run Grim if all your vets are melee, ie sword n board or maybe axe and shield for that extra strength.

However with -1 to hit weapons it wouldn’t be worth it.

Also if your squad is a mix of melee and some ranged special weapons Halbrecht is the way to go.

[Firepower]

Would you guys consider running Grimaldus and Halbrecht together? The auras make it redundant, but I’m thinking Grims explosive 6s as well as the strat could make for some melee units.

 

If not maybe run Grim if all your vets are melee, ie sword n board or maybe axe and shield for that extra strength.

However with -1 to hit weapons it wouldn’t be worth it.

Also if your squad is a mix of melee and some ranged special weapons Halbrecht is the way to go.

 

If you roll in an LRC, definitely take Helbrecht.  The round of shooting with rerolls when he pops out can wreck house, while Grim would only buff the passengers.

[SydonianDragoon404]

I posted my ideas about sword brethren in my Fortis Crusade thread but I'll restate them here in summary.

 

I'm taking 5 power fists and storm shields. With Helbrecht's reroll aura, strength aura, and re roll wounds, and the points reduction on power fists I find them to be just right in terms of power for points. Just got be very careful with setting them up in opposition to something that doesn't have a very high invuln save. They won't sweep a hive tyrant. 

[Iago]

I think a Rhino with 5 vets , Helbrecht, 3 Cenobytes and another character .

[Firepower]

I only ever think of Cenos as Tide support.  That's space in the pimpmobile that could be filled by more stabby dudes.

[Iago]

Tide ? It’s more like if the rhino does and you roll some ones you can kill some Cenobytes rather than important veterans .

[Medjugorje]

Gesamtpunkte der Armee : 2086 (with Chapter approved its exact 1999)
Powerlevel der Armee : 132
Relikte 0 CP-Abzug: 0
Kommandopunkte der Armee : 18

IMPERIUM: Battalion Detachment - 1308 Punkte ( Indomitus Crusader)
***************  3 HQ ***************  
1 Primaris Lieutenant, 1 x Master-crafted auto bolt rifle  - - - > 74 Punkte

1 Primaris Lieutenant, 1 x Power sword  - - - > 74 Punkte

Captain in Terminator Armour
+ Storm shield, Thunder hammer  -> 36 Pkt.  - - - > 141 Punkte (Warlord with +1w and fnp trait AND Shield Eternal)

***************  3 Standard ***************  
10 Intercessor, Bolt rifle, 2 x Auxiliary grenade launcher, Intercessor Sergeant, Power sword  - - - > 186 Punkte (Indumitus Veteran)

10 Intercessor, Bolt rifle, 2 x Auxiliary grenade launcher, Intercessor Sergeant, Power sword  - - - > 186 Punkte (Indomitus Veteran)

10 Intercessor, Bolt rifle, 2 x Auxiliary grenade launcher, Intercessor Sergeant, Power sword  - - - > 186 Punkte (Indumitus Veteran)

***************  4 Elite ***************  
Primaris Apothecary  - - - > 68 Punkte

Primaris Ancient  - - - > 69 Punkte

3 Aggressor, Auto boltstorm gauntlets & Fragstorm grenade launcher  - - - > 111 Punkte

3 Aggressor, Auto boltstorm gauntlets & Fragstorm grenade launcher  - - - > 111 Punkte

***************  1 Sturm ***************  
Scout Bike Squad
4 Scout Biker
+ Sergeant, 1 x Storm bolter  -> 2 Pkt.  - - - > 102 Punkte

IMPERIUM: Battalion Detachment - 598 Punkte (Sword Brethren)
***************  3 HQ ***************  
Captain, Jump Pack
+ Storm shield, Chainsword  -> 15 Pkt.  - - - > 108 Punkte (Teeth of Terra and SWORDMASTER)

High Marshal Helbrecht  - - - > 170 Punkte

The Emperor's Champion  - - - > 75 Punkte

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte

Scout Squad
5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun
+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte

***************  1 Elite ***************  
5 Company Veterans, 5 x Chainsword, 5 x Stormshields- - - > 80 Punkte (actual points)

Astra Militarum: Battalion Detachment - 180 Punkte
***************  2 HQ ***************  
Company Commander (Kurovs Aquilla)
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte

Company Commander
+ Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 30 Punkte

***************  3 Standard ***************  
Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte

Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte

Infantry Squad
+ Sergeant, Chainsword, Laspistol  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 40 Punkte

 

[Firepower]

Tide ? It’s more like if the rhino does and you roll some ones you can kill some Cenobytes rather than important veterans .

 

Biting the bullet (or shrapnel) is what Neophytes are for ;)

[Medjugorje]

I wonder about noone talks about Indumitus CRUSADER Detachment. I mean,... name should be programe for us. And iit have nice rules that fit for templars tool

[Schlitzaf]

Here my feeling, I think folks are focusing too much on the Veteran not enough on the Warlord aspect. Or to put it a better way.

 

Company Veterans if you go Shield/Sword are 20 points for 2A Power Weapon 3++. Or Sword/SBolter. Remember that Grey Knight players complain about there 21 point multidamage, Storm Bolter armed, 2A Power Sword Models are overpriced. While I don’t agree with that assessment. Being factually wrong (the GK are not overpriced, it’s SM Chassis but different discussion).

 

Now before someone leaps on me and says “Warlord Trait has been the focus of discussion” bear with me for a moment. A Captain with SShield/THammer (and potentially Pack) is around 105 points with 5 Wounds. Essentially paying around 21 points a wound.

 

How many points were we paying for our Veterans? 16-20 depending on our setup. Company Veterans have a “look out rule”. Normally this isn’t terrible relavent but considering we are likely airdropping our characters and sense we want them to charge, we need them in front and/or leaving a path open to charge. Meaning if we fail, they are vulnerable to smite and shooting.

 

In otherwords that otherwise normally ‘useless’ rule. Now is incredibly relavent. While I am not advocating taking a bunch of naked Sword Brothern. I am advocating when your building not looking solely at the killy aspect.

 

But think that for each Sword Brother your buying an additional wound for our characters. Which is why I return to my “focus on Warlord”. We have at worst 3 super killy affordable heroes in our lists. Helbrect or SmashMarshall, Emperor’s Champion, TeethCastallen Or TeethMarshall. And they are high priority targets both for snipers, including the Knight kind. And being setup for smite or attacks first in melee.

 

And because there multi-damage high attack Weapons in general the better usage of our Strategems (exception being 1W MeQ models). Our opponents more likely hard target in melee. So they will try and murder. You have your 3++, then pop the Strategems for FNP. If you still fail pass the would to our company Veterans. Take for example 6 Wounds from a THammer.

 

You fail 2 of them. 6 damage. Now here where it gets in interesting. So you think popping our FNP on Marshall? It dependings in how many models in veteran squad.

 

4-5 you pop on Veterans as you move Wounds. As the Marshall still effective as long as he has 1 wound (through admittedly I’d like to keep him on a healthy 2-3 wounds). But any veterans losing wounds, is a effectiveness loss. So it’s actually a rather interesting thing.

[SydonianDragoon404]

@Medjugorje I've identified buffing characters like darkstrider, weirdboys, and bilepipers to be a serious problem in my local meta, so I am planning to utilize a squad of 10 primaris vets with stalker bolt rifles to use the target acquired strat. I know its the most inefficient build, but I'm not sure how else to try and get rid of these guys when they're hiding behind three ranks of infantry. I don't use sniper scouts and don't really plan to so this seems to be the best option. 

 

I do plan to also run a squad with either regular bolt rifles or assault bolters to make use of the other stratagems in that detachment, my main issue with the bolt rifle strat is that people know about it and I don't see any viable ways to get 10 guys in close enough to really make use of it. At least with the assault bolters I can advanced on my way up.