Sword Brethren - Vigilus Special Detachment - And You

[Iago]

I’m trying the detachment for the first time today! My power sword and storm shield veterans are aching for battle !

[Schlitzaf]

The thing about our detachment is it does two key things our army lacked to recap pre-Vigilus our strongest aspects were the following;

1) Emperor’s Champion, a cheap HQ to fill the various specialized (Outrider/Vangaurd/Spearhead) detachments while having absurd damage output

 

2) Crusader Squad and it’s support elements

-2A: the Ability to Faux-Devi or Tide Squad give our unique troop choice a viability that tacticals just don’t.

•A Heavy/Special/Special Devi for similar points to a DblHvy Devi (LasPlasmPlasm for 107 vs 2 Lascannon for 115) has remarkably similar damage output. And if in rapid range has output equivalent to 3Hvy Devi

•A tide squad has an similar output of raw strength 4 AP - Attacks to a Vangaurd (4 points per an attack vs Vangaurd 3.5 points per an attack).

-2B: Cenobyte Servitors, alongside either Relic Banner or Rites allow us to tide squad without being badly affected by Morale. You have two stages of built in redundancies. Or for only 6 points you have 1 for cheap. Additionally alongside Champion you can fill a cheap Vangaurd.

•I included Cenos as part of this because otherwise it’s 6 points for cheap Vangaurd.

 

3) Crusader’s Helm, the Crusader Helm increases aura range by 3”. A Marshall with a 9” aura is about the same amount of space covered by two Marshall’s with 6” auras. Secondly if you deep strike the Marshall. And he fails to make the charge and his crew does. Presumably your base is larger than centimeter. And because you start more than 9” away from enemy model. If you make the charge. You are due to base size less than 9” away from the Marshall. This gives us a good deal of mobility and less worry about stranding our boys away from the buffing.

 

4) Our Strategem. Not much to say here. Just that competitively you see Marine armies take 3 MSU Scout BT Squads for Turn 1 Denies. Additionally to be noted because of our excellent Troops and EC. You always want a Battlelion as Templars. Meaning we have the CP to spend.

•Additionally in combination with our tactic we would be saving CP we’d otherwise be spending on reroll charges.

 

Good but lacking in targets;

1) High Marshall Helbrect; I cannot stress this enough. But Helbrect is a good character. Strength 6, 1d3 Attacks on charge, 2+ save and CombiMelta. But his two auras as full rerolls and +1 strength.

 

His biggest issue was that he lacked good buff targets. Our army wanted to either spam tide squads with Intercessors/FauxDevi support or spam FauxDevi in Razors. The Helm and our strategem is wonderful at showcasing that we wanted to do some black tide variant.

Meaning Helbrect while good didn’t have a units that wanted his buff.

 

The Awful:

Warlord Trait; you didn’t want to give up Rites or Storm for this. Or you took this on Emperor’s Champion.

Grimaldus; fixes in Approved

 

Vigilus:

Vigilus buffs several units, Marshall, two of our three named characters, Company Champion and Company Veterans. But let us focus on the latter for a second.

1) Company Veterans (hence forth referred to as SB) got a point reduction in chassis and in wargear option in approved. But I am focusing on the formation. Now let’s compare these guys to DeathCompany.

•Death Company are slightly more expensive base but get 6+++ and 1A on charge. And wounding first wound on 2’s or 3’s against most things. Instead we get bodyguard rule. In terms of melee output Death Company win.

•Death Company have larger squad size in 5-15(?) and better reception of Strategems. Here they win too. Strategem wise they have forlorn hope, and wings. But unlike our +1A strategem, their is character only. In terms of being a game ending ‘hammer’ Death Company win here too.

 

Your about to tell me Death Company are better in all ways then our Sword Brothern Schlitzaf! Well yes. And no. Proper tool for the proper job. But I’ll get more to that later. Here what is important. Helbrect now has viable and points efficienct buff targets. Which is something our army was sorely lacking.

 

Now Sword Brothern? Well they aren’t Hammers. They are in a word. Combat support. Using Pods who got a nice point reduction to make them viable if not efficienct. You can deliver one or two squads alongside a character. The run support for the character by either being ablative wounds or another threat. Also the Vigilus detachment fixed our warlord trait issue.

 

Are Ultra’s better melee? That different. There melee strength is wrapped into a single detachment. That detachment also only uses high value elite units. What makes Templar a melee army over Non-BA/SW Marines (BA/SW can do what j am about to mention as well with BA Tactic or Grey Hunters). Is that we don’t need high point elite models. Our Crusader Squads raw melee output is comparable to elite units.

 

One of our characters (EC) is a combat monster without any additional buffing required. We load up in Troops and spend ultimately minimal points buffing them. Cenos, Castallen and a Marshall. We don’t need specific relics or units outside Cenobyte. Due to 12” Ceno range and 9” Helm range we are far more flexible and mobile than other marine armies whom have to pack themselves tight into 6”.

 

I am hoping to have a more extended explanation of this on Lareoth blog later this week. But saying Ultras are better at melee than BT is laughable. We are good without having to go out of our way or dedicate ourselves to do so. It’s notable our detachment buffed us in a way that enhances or shores us in a way we saliently lacked before. Without needing to us a bunch of super buffs.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Sword Brethren and Victrix Guard Vanguard vets/primaris honor guard are two very different units with how I use them.

 

I think people underestimate how good rerolling failed wounds is.

 

Were over here in our own corner trying to be positive and make the best use out of some cool toys we got.

[Acebaur]

Excellent write up Schlitzaf! I look forward to seeing your article on Implausible Nature

[Brother Talarian]

1CP for 5+++

Laughable.... or great?

 

While the target for this stratagem can seem limited, it’s situtional and can really save your hide.

 

You charge in a character with some company vets. Swing with vets, if enemy interrupts to hit character:

- save on character

- failed saves take on company vets

- 1CP and they have a 1/3 chance of surviving!

 

Alternatively, your character is dualling a big baddy. His does 5 wounds! Oh no, 1CP and you could be saved!

 

Throw 5 vets (bikers too for now) with SS into some obnoxious monster. 3++ 5+++. Decent wall for 1CP!

 

+1 A re-roll wounds... self-explanatory, it’s great.

 

WLT, who wouldn’t want a free attack on 6s?

 

What else do you guys generally use your CP on... I find we’re fairly limited in terms of options. Spending several CPs on these strats has never been an issue for me.

 

Try playing a game where you can’t spend CP on re-rolls. Can also make for an interesting fight.

[Trignama]

So, I've gotten to run the detachment, and I'll say this much.

A captain with a SS, Teeth of Terra, and the Master Swordsman trait is an absolute monster. My game was against Tau (loss btw, fish of fury + suits just kited me to death after the drop) He jumped into a full health Ghostkeel that had a 4++ and solo'd him, it was absolutely glorious.

The company vets, combined with a banner bearer, and a slew of HQ's is a wrecking house of a combination. From frustrating your opponent with "can only shoot the closest" games with the characters, to splitting off wounds onto vets then saving those wounds on 5+++'s after your characters failed the initial wound is just hilarious. Even better when you happen to fail and get to swing on whatever killed you again anyway lol.

Personally I found running the sword brethren with a storm bolter and a chainsword to serve the best. The 3++ is nice, but the vets are still 1 wound models so they don't act well as a tanking unit. I find having the range is really nice for my list in particular, as I'm currently running these guys in pods, and offsets some of the hurt for when their charges fail (happens to me A LOT lol). 

The mechanics in the game still make combat nearly impossible to pull off in any competitive sense for us though, and unfortunately the detachment doesn't fix that, but it is nice to have some useful combat rules that are actually effective in the game. If you get to stuff and you have CP's to burn, you're gonna kill it now.  


Edit +++ Link to list I used: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/352714-2k-bt-assault-list-purist-with-14-cps/

[themoob]

Care to justify your opinion with examples or comparisons?

 

The entire thing is wasted on inefficient units.

 

Emperor's Champ and Helbrecht can't take the trait, as far as I understand the rules (that's what the ITC organisers in Australia have decided). Plus, even with the other buffs, they only do d3 damage per hit. Compared to a vanilla Captain with a Thunderhammer, on average, for every hit the cap makes, the EC or Helbrecht needs to get 2 through to put out the same damage. Spend 3CP on the EC and he'll still struggle to kill most any HQ in the game with a decent invul save - even though that's literally the thing he is meant to be designed to do. And he'll probably get smashed in return, with his paltry 4++ and 4 wounds.

 

It's super basic 40k to know that you need as big units as possible to make the best use of stratagems. Spending buttloads of CP on 5 man squads isn't very useful. 1CP for the formation + 2 more to give a Veteran Squad... 16 attacks. Or just spend 3CP (fight twice stratagem EVERYONE gets) on a 10 man vanguard squad for 42 attacks. The math is pretty obvious there. I mean yeah, you get to reroll wounds too, but Lieutenants exist, and are pretty cheap, and the better weapons you use, the less of a difference between rerolling all wounds compared to just rerolling 1s. Plus, when you are spending the same amount of CP to get nearly triple the attacks, you probably don't even need to reroll wounds.

 

And lastly, let's not forget that footslogging with marines is the dumbest thing you can do, so there's a mandatory rhino/drop pod tax on any squads you want to take.

 

The BEST use for this formation, which is still pretty average, is to do a BT smash captain. More CP hungry than the Blood Angels one, by a long shot, for only being, like, slightly better.

 

Y'all should be much more outraged that for some reason Vanguard Veterans aren't included in this formation (especially since, in the fluff, they should be). THEN it would be decent. Jump packs for delivery, large unit for making CP use more efficient.... Instead it's like some weird, sick joke from GW.

 

Trust me lads, I really want Black Templar to be good. I was super excited when I heard they were getting a formation. It looked good on paper.... for like 30 seconds. Crunched some numbers, looked at it more closely, and yeah, it's :cuss.

 

Let's not forget the super nerf Crusader Squads got on top of that in CA2018 at the same time. It was a sad, sad day for Black Templar.

[Schlitzaf]

Crusader Squads didn’t get nerfed in 2018. Also just so we are clear. It’s the same CP. As as BA one.

1 CP Death Visions/Detachment

1 CP Relic/Warlord

 

The different is Rampage 1CP for 1d3 and our is 2CP +1A and Reroll Wounds. Secondly the ability to use these Strategems on Company Veterans is ultimately completely secondary. The main point is using them on our characters.

 

The Veteran is a nice bonus not the main thing.

[Acebaur]

While you have some fair points, the evidence seems to be to the contrary. Several of our brothers have had good success with the new formation and despite not being OP or perfect it's still solid. Yes larger units can make better use of a strategem than small ones but that doesn't mean those CP are wasted by using them at a crucial time.

 

I'm also confused by your last statement. What nerf are you talking about?

 

Edit: to tack onto Schlitzaf, one of the biggest buffs veterans got in CA was the points drop on their base price and on SS

[Iago]

I tried the Vets today and I was pleased. They jumped out of a storm raven within range of helbrecht and a lieutentant and just killed things... then they died to shooting... but it was fun and very characterful. 

[Medjugorje]

 

With the Indomitus Crusaders using the Veteran Intercessor strat you spend 1cp to give a unit +1 attack for the duration of the game as well as a buffed leadership. Drop Liberators for 1cp and you're doing extra hits on natural 6s, that looks pretty good for combat and runs lighter on cp expenditure.

 

Victrix Guard makes for a really nasty combat unit of Honour Guard, Fight Like Demigods stacked with the Macragge Standard they are +1 to hit +1 attack+1 leadership. Vitrix Honour Guard in that situation is 5 power sword attacks each and you can run 6 of them for no slots if you have Calgar, and grants re-rolls to hit with him.

 

If you want to have lots of extra stabby power weaponry you can also mix in units of standard honour guard alongside the Victrix Honour Guard, it's a good chunk of points but it'd kill alot in melee.

 

IMO they still shine best with shooting but Ultras have plenty of good tools for combat if desired.

 

ok,... against Victrix you must shoot them before.... its correct. But Indomitus Crusader is not a ultramarine one,... its a black templar one too.

 

 

Crusader Squads didn

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

Crusader Squads didn’t get nerfed in 2018. Also just so we are clear. It’s the same CP. As as BA one.

1 CP Death Visions/Detachment

1 CP Relic/Warlord

 

The different is Rampage 1CP for 1d3 and our is 2CP +1A and Reroll Wounds. Secondly the ability to use these Strategems on Company Veterans is ultimately completely secondary. The main point is using them on our characters.

 

The Veteran is a nice bonus not the main thing.

i disagree here,... the stratagem is very strong with company veterans. A Company Veteran Seargent with a Hammer has 4 attacks with the stratagem and the other 4 guys with stormshield and chainsword are very cheap and good.

I’ll give you that Medj. But given it involves gearing up somewhat fragile models I tend to lessen its value.*

 

*not to say your wrong I got plenty of usage out of it with my Fisty/Shield Vets. It’s just an expensive proposition

[Medjugorje]

 

Are Ultra’s better melee? That different. There melee strength is wrapped into a single detachment. That detachment also only uses high value elite units. What makes Templar a melee army over Non-BA/SW Marines (BA/SW can do what j am about to mention as well with BA Tactic or Grey Hunters). Is that we don’t need high point elite models. Our Crusader Squads raw melee output is comparable to elite units.

 

 

 But saying Ultras are better at melee than BT is laughable. We are good without having to go out of our way or dedicate ourselves to do so.

 

sorry to say this,... its not true. Ultramarines are better in close combat - because of Calgar and Girlyman. They are very hard to kill and Girlyman is like our 2-CP-Stratagem as 6" aura. And hit hard like 3 smash captains

 

[themoob]

Anecdotal evidence is on the contrary, buuut it's just anecdotal. If you're playing against crappy players and/or crappier armies, it means nothing... point me to the proper tournament results where Black Templars are even being played, let alone placing well.

 

Crusader Squads, and all tactical marines, received a MASSIVE indirect nerf. Namely that:

1. Tactical marines were already massively overpriced before CA2018

2. Neophytes are costed as Scout Marines, and Scout Marines are worth additional points because of their scout move, but Neophytes don't get that, but are pointed the same still.

3. Tactical marines still cost the exact same amount in CA2018, despite MOST units getting points drops. A Plague Marine w/ twin blades is only what, 3 points more, than a Crusader with chainsword and bolt pistol. The Plague marine loses the pistol and 1inch move, but same amount of attacks, ONE more toughness (which is critical), rerolls 1s to wound built in, and gets disgustingly resilient. Tactical marines of any kind were already laughably bad, but now? They're a joke. Veterans are only 1 point more for another attack and leadership point.

[Schlitzaf]

......okay Moob let me put it this way. Despite that point reduction to reemphasis Crusader Squads still are point to point almost as efficient as Vangaurd Veterans per point spent.

 

Second your not giving upgrades to every single model in a Crusader Squad like you are with various veteran units.

 

And third Black Templars are being played competitively 3 5 man MSU Scout for our deny Strategems. And there hasn’t been a major tournament sense Vigilus dropped.

 

Annodotal evidence when gathered on a large scale. Is something. You want to say this is crappy, you need better logic than “I say so”. Because your only real point is that company veterans suck and it makes a overpriced CP wise SmashCaptain. The latter is empirically wrong compared to BA Smash Captains and former is more complicated.

 

And finally on the Gulliman point Medj. He is 400 point fricking character. I’d rather take a knight at that point. And competitively Gulliman lists are a dying breed.

[Acebaur]

 

 

Crusader Squads didn’t get nerfed in 2018. Also just so we are clear. It’s the same CP. As as BA one.

1 CP Death Visions/Detachment

1 CP Relic/Warlord

 

The different is Rampage 1CP for 1d3 and our is 2CP +1A and Reroll Wounds. Secondly the ability to use these Strategems on Company Veterans is ultimately completely secondary. The main point is using them on our characters.

 

The Veteran is a nice bonus not the main thing.

i disagree here,... the stratagem is very strong with company veterans. A Company Veteran Seargent with a Hammer has 4 attacks with the stratagem and the other 4 guys with stormshield and chainsword are very cheap and good.

I’ll give you that Medj. But given it involves gearing up somewhat fragile models I tend to lessen its value.*

 

*not to say your wrong I got plenty of usage out of it with my Fisty/Shield Vets. It’s just an expensive proposition

 

 

I wouldn't call it expensive honestly. 5 sword and SS guys is only 100 points. That's extremely cheap for the damage output they can do when paired with Helbrecht. 

 

 

 

Anecdotal evidence is on the contrary, buuut it's just anecdotal. If you're playing against crappy players and/or crappier armies, it means nothing... point me to the proper tournament results where Black Templars are even being played, let alone placing well.

 

Crusader Squads, and all tactical marines, received a MASSIVE indirect nerf. Namely that:

1. Tactical marines were already massively overpriced before CA2018

2. Neophytes are costed as Scout Marines, and Scout Marines are worth additional points because of their scout move, but Neophytes don't get that, but are pointed the same still.

3. Tactical marines still cost the exact same amount in CA2018, despite MOST units getting points drops. A Plague Marine w/ twin blades is only what, 3 points more, than a Crusader with chainsword and bolt pistol. The Plague marine loses the pistol and 1inch move, but same amount of attacks, ONE more toughness (which is critical), rerolls 1s to wound built in, and gets disgustingly resilient. Tactical marines of any kind were already laughably bad, but now? They're a joke. Veterans are only 1 point more for another attack and leadership point.

 

 

That's still not a nerf though, it's just the lack of a points reduction. Even if you want to call it a nerf it's hardly "MASSSIVE". Also why would you ever run tacticals as a Templar? Crusaders are straight better and you can run them in MSU with 2x Special and a Heavy.  They aren't meant to be power house killers. They are troops and for their role they do a good job. I will give you neophytes are overpriced. 

[Medjugorje]

in terms of tournament gaming Space Marines suck in general. In terms of shooting in the same way as in melee.

 

there are just 3 ways for GW

 

1. GW knows exactly but doesnt want to change that situation

2. GW know that exactly but need time to change it.

3. GW dont know their own rules ( thats why they said that GK and Marines should become great after CA - but it never happened).

......okay Moob let me put it this way. Despite that point reduction to reemphasis Crusader Squads still are point to point almost as efficient as Vangaurd Veterans per point spent.

 

 

because both units ****.

[Medjugorje]

And finally on the Gulliman point Medj. He is 400 point fricking character. I’d rather take a knight at that point. And competitively Gulliman lists are a dying breed.

 

but far better then any of our beloved BT lists. If there is a hard BT-list,... change "RZ" against Ravenguard CT and you are way better.

 

And i will bet against you that nobody will play BT in any tournament - no real good player will do it.

[Schlitzaf]

 

 

And finally on the Gulliman point Medj. He is 400 point fricking character. I’d rather take a knight at that point. And competitively Gulliman lists are a dying breed.

but far better then any of our beloved BT lists. If there is a hard BT-list,... change "RZ" against Ravenguard CT and you are way better.

Eh we will see in a couple months with major tournaments things might be changing. Also competitively we are taken mostly for our deny Strategem.

 

Beside Tide lists are honestly pretty competitive. Not top 8 but neither is Gulliman lists.

[Medjugorje]

 

 

 

Crusader Squads didn’t get nerfed in 2018. Also just so we are clear. It’s the same CP. As as BA one.

1 CP Death Visions/Detachment

1 CP Relic/Warlord

 

The different is Rampage 1CP for 1d3 and our is 2CP +1A and Reroll Wounds. Secondly the ability to use these Strategems on Company Veterans is ultimately completely secondary. The main point is using them on our characters.

 

The Veteran is a nice bonus not the main thing.

i disagree here,... the stratagem is very strong with company veterans. A Company Veteran Seargent with a Hammer has 4 attacks with the stratagem and the other 4 guys with stormshield and chainsword are very cheap and good.

I’ll give you that Medj. But given it involves gearing up somewhat fragile models I tend to lessen its value.*

 

*not to say your wrong I got plenty of usage out of it with my Fisty/Shield Vets. It’s just an expensive proposition

 

 

I wouldn't call it expensive honestly. 5 sword and SS guys is only 100 points. That's extremely cheap for the damage output they can do when paired with Helbrecht. 

 

 

 

Anecdotal evidence is on the contrary, buuut it's just anecdotal. If you're playing against crappy players and/or crappier armies, it means nothing... point me to the proper tournament results where Black Templars are even being played, let alone placing well.

 

Crusader Squads, and all tactical marines, received a MASSIVE indirect nerf. Namely that:

1. Tactical marines were already massively overpriced before CA2018

2. Neophytes are costed as Scout Marines, and Scout Marines are worth additional points because of their scout move, but Neophytes don't get that, but are pointed the same still.

3. Tactical marines still cost the exact same amount in CA2018, despite MOST units getting points drops. A Plague Marine w/ twin blades is only what, 3 points more, than a Crusader with chainsword and bolt pistol. The Plague marine loses the pistol and 1inch move, but same amount of attacks, ONE more toughness (which is critical), rerolls 1s to wound built in, and gets disgustingly resilient. Tactical marines of any kind were already laughably bad, but now? They're a joke. Veterans are only 1 point more for another attack and leadership point.

 

 

That's still not a nerf though, it's just the lack of a points reduction. Even if you want to call it a nerf it's hardly "MASSSIVE". Also why would you ever run tacticals as a Templar? Crusaders are straight better and you can run them in MSU with 2x Special and a Heavy.  They aren't meant to be power house killers. They are troops and for their role they do a good job. I will give you neophytes are overpriced. 

 

 

if all units get updates but weak units like our Troops dont get them? No,... that makes us even worst.

To be honest, our shooty weapons are cheaper then before... but in melee crusader still *****

 

[themoob]

......okay Moob let me put it this way. Despite that point reduction to reemphasis Crusader Squads still are point to point almost as efficient as Vangaurd Veterans per point spent.

 

Second your not giving upgrades to every single model in a Crusader Squad like you are with various veteran units.

 

And third Black Templars are being played competitively 3 5 man MSU Scout for our deny Strategems. And there hasn’t been a major tournament sense Vigilus dropped.

 

Annodotal evidence when gathered on a large scale. Is something. You want to say this is crappy, you need better logic than “I say so”. Because your only real point is that company veterans suck and it makes a overpriced CP wise SmashCaptain. The latter is empirically wrong compared to BA Smash Captains and former is more complicated.

 

And finally on the Gulliman point Medj. He is 400 point fricking character. I’d rather take a knight at that point. And competitively Gulliman lists are a dying breed.

 

How can you even contemplate for a second that a crusader model is as efficient as a vanguard veteran? You pay one point more to DOUBLE offensive potential with a Vanguard Veteran... DOUBLE. Either the Vanguard Vet is crazy efficient (lol it's not), or the crusader is crazy inefficient, which it is.

[Acebaur]

Alright folks, lets try to stay on topic here, which is how to best utilize the new detachment from Vigilus and the units affected by it. Let's leave the nature of tournaments and and Crusaders and whether they are worth their points out of it. 

[Medjugorje]

--

[Medjugorje]

Alright folks, lets try to stay on topic here, which is how to best utilize the new detachment from Vigilus and the units affected by it. Let's leave the nature of tournaments and and Crusaders and whether they are worth their points out of it. 

 

for me its clearly Teeth of Terra + Stormshield as Sword Master  - with chapter approved - exactly THIS:

 

Gesamtpunkte der Armee : 1111

Powerlevel der Armee : 72

Relikte 1 CP-Abzug: 0

Kommandopunkte der Armee : 8

 

Black Templars: Battalion Detachment - 1111 Punkte (PL 72)

***************  3 HQ ***************  

Captain, Jump Pack

+ Teeth of Terra, Storm shield  -> 10 Pkt.  - - - > 103 Punkte (PL 6)

 

High Marshal Helbrecht  - - - > 150 Punkte (PL 9)

 

The Emperor's Champion  - - - > 75 Punkte (PL 6)

 

***************  3 Standard ***************  

Scout Squad

5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun

+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

 

Scout Squad

5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun

+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

 

Scout Squad

5 Scouts, 4 x Boltgun

+ Sergeant, 1 x Bolt pistol, 1 x Boltgun  -> 0 Pkt.  - - - > 55 Punkte (PL 4)

 

***************  3 Elite ***************  

5 Company Veterans, 4 x Chainsword, 4 x Storm shield

+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 94 Punkte (PL 8)

 

5 Company Veterans, 4 x Chainsword, 4 x Storm shield

+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 94 Punkte (PL 8)

 

5 Company Veterans, 4 x Chainsword, 4 x Storm shield

+ Sergeant, 1 x Chainsword, 1 x Thunder hammer  -> 16 Pkt.  - - - > 94 Punkte (PL 8)

 

***************  3 Transporter ***************  

Razorback, Twin lascannon, Storm bolter  - - - > 112 Punkte (PL 5)

 

Razorback, Twin lascannon, Storm bolter  - - - > 112 Punkte (PL 5)

 

Razorback, Twin lascannon, Storm bolter  - - - > 112 Punkte (PL 5)

 

 

[Iago]

I like this! 

 

So, my second time playing the SS veterans they charged a super heavy with (stompa) with Helbrecht and did 20 damage to it with the double attack and using the sword brethren strat and power swords! then the storm shields helped them stay alive.. it was great, these guys hit like a brick to the face.