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Sword Brethren - Vigilus Special Detachment - And You


Iago

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I used the SS/PS variant of the Company Veterans with High Marshal Helbrecht in tow. I retract any previous statement, they are absolutely amazing for the points cost. Helbrecht one shot Saint Celestine with his Meltagun, she got back up, sword bros and helbrecht charged, and dropped her in CC, then the sword brethren survived a blistering amount of fire before finally falling to his last shooting unit that turn (a bunch of sisters with heavy flamers). Either way, I was VERY impressed with their damage output.

Forgive me if I might have missed something, but can Helbrecht and the Emperor's Champion take the Warlord trait associated with this detachment? Or do they still have to take the one from the codex?

 They are both named characters so if they are your warlord, they must be given oathkeeper, and due to the wording of "Field Commander" they can't take Master Swordsman even if you don't make them your warlord anyway. 

It's a long shot, but would we be able to substitute the Master Swordsman Warlord Trait for Oathkeeper when fielding a named character as the Warlord?  Both are an "associated Warlord Trait of their Chapter", but the Codex does list specific Traits under this paragraph.

  • 3 weeks later...

 

Forgive me if I might have missed something, but can Helbrecht and the Emperor's Champion take the Warlord trait associated with this detachment? Or do they still have to take the one from the codex?

 They are both named characters so if they are your warlord, they must be given oathkeeper, and due to the wording of "Field Commander" they can't take Master Swordsman even if you don't make them your warlord anyway. 

 

The more I come to understand 8th edition the less I like it.  It just seems so dumb to include them in the detachment if they can't take the trait.  Especially since the trait fits those characters so well.  

 

 

Forgive me if I might have missed something, but can Helbrecht and the Emperor's Champion take the Warlord trait associated with this detachment? Or do they still have to take the one from the codex?

 They are both named characters so if they are your warlord, they must be given oathkeeper, and due to the wording of "Field Commander" they can't take Master Swordsman even if you don't make them your warlord anyway. 

 

The more I come to understand 8th edition the less I like it.  It just seems so dumb to include them in the detachment if they can't take the trait.  Especially since the trait fits those characters so well.  

 

 

Eh it makes a lot of sense. Named characters have a very specific way of leading and that won't change when you use a different kind of detachment however that doesn't mean they can't benefit from other things in said detachment.

Also they can still both benefit from suffer not. Which is honeslty one of the better parts of the detachment. Like the detachment primary job/fix is that it gave us a unit we needed to fill a gaping hole in our army.

 

The lack of a points efficient elite style unit. The veterans are in my opanion the best part of this detachment. I have yet to be disappointed by them in a game.

In the first game I played with the new rules I ended up getting more use out of the 5++++
It helped Helbrect get into combat with the enemy warlord without taking a bunch of wounds in defensive fire.

Now once he GOT there he forgot which end of his sword is supposed to point at the other man, and I lost a game I should have had in the bag, but that is besides the point...

In the first game I played with the new rules I ended up getting more use out of the 5++++

It helped Helbrect get into combat with the enemy warlord without taking a bunch of wounds in defensive fire.

 

Now once he GOT there he forgot which end of his sword is supposed to point at the other man, and I lost a game I should have had in the bag, but that is besides the point...

 

Both ends of the sword work so long as sufficient zeal is applied.

 

 

 

Forgive me if I might have missed something, but can Helbrecht and the Emperor's Champion take the Warlord trait associated with this detachment? Or do they still have to take the one from the codex?

 They are both named characters so if they are your warlord, they must be given oathkeeper, and due to the wording of "Field Commander" they can't take Master Swordsman even if you don't make them your warlord anyway. 

 

The more I come to understand 8th edition the less I like it.  It just seems so dumb to include them in the detachment if they can't take the trait.  Especially since the trait fits those characters so well.  

 

 

Eh it makes a lot of sense. Named characters have a very specific way of leading and that won't change when you use a different kind of detachment however that doesn't mean they can't benefit from other things in said detachment.

 

I guess you're right.  I was just excited to watch the Emperor's Champion put like 8-10 wounds on enemy characters with that trait and Gimaldus by his side.

In the first game I played with the new rules I ended up getting more use out of the 5++++

It helped Helbrect get into combat with the enemy warlord without taking a bunch of wounds in defensive fire.

 

Now once he GOT there he forgot which end of his sword is supposed to point at the other man, and I lost a game I should have had in the bag, but that is besides the point...

so you played it wrong... 5+++ you cant take in overwatch... sorry but thats GW-writing

 

In the first game I played with the new rules I ended up getting more use out of the 5++++

It helped Helbrect get into combat with the enemy warlord without taking a bunch of wounds in defensive fire.

 

Now once he GOT there he forgot which end of his sword is supposed to point at the other man, and I lost a game I should have had in the bag, but that is besides the point...

so you played it wrong... 5+++ you cant take in overwatch... sorry but thats GW-writing

 

Me and my opponent have been facing off since 5th so we missed the part where the charge phase is separate now. You are right.

I’ve had good luck with the detachment. One squad of vets with three hammers, a master swordsman jump captain, and Helbrecht managed to take out a knight errant and knight warden and only lose the captain. The small unit size definitely leaves little room for error, but when it works it works well.

 The small unit size definitely leaves little room for error, but when it works it works well.

I think that is very Black Templar. I have always had my biggest victories playing them as a finesse army, no matter the edition. Its part of what makes them so much fun.

 

My greatest triumph was taking down a braggart of a grey knights player in a tournament shortly after their 5th ed codex came out.

Well for me it was a mixed bag in the one game I played. That being said I had to deploy them via rhino and was versing a ultramarine Player who was falling back and shooting all the time.

 

Those out of the way:

- they are quite durable given even mediocre rolling

- the whole taking wounds for your marshal aspect of the unit is quite nice

 

I am still unsure wether to deploy them with a marshal or a Chaplain. I think especially the fist squad will profit from reroll everything. On the other hand deepstriking them with the marshal might be an even deadlier Combination.

I'm just coming back from 5+ years away from 40k and catching up on the rules.  In terms of fluff and modeling potential, this detachment really speaks to me.  I'm glad to see folks are actually having success with it, too.  I made a 2k black tide-ish list to work on putting together and trying out.  The nearest store is about 90 minutes from me, so I won't get a ton of games in, but I find it helps to have goals.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353723-2k-templar-sword-brethren-black-tide/

 

To keep things on topic with the thread, I am really intrigued about the prospect of company vets on bikes.  For one, the rule of cool is always in effect in my armies (decent odds they'll have lances if I run them).  Second, I think the extra T and W could help a lot.  

 

What do y'all think?  Are they good enough to bring along despite the extra price tag, or will the rule of cool cost me too many games?

Current wisdom states that they're fun and decent enough, but overall too expensive to be considered competitive. It's a shame they're stuck with Index-points.

Never stopped me in the past, and against fun opponents they'll still pull their weight. Just get a feel for your meta - if it's net-lists and tourny players, you may want to keep them on display instead ;)

 

Hey, maybe you can even negotiate a small points reduction with any regular opponents, given they have basically been neglected by GW in recent years.

On the other hand deepstriking them with the marshal might be an even deadlier Combination.

I made a list for that: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353670-bt-list-for-funtimes-flyers-and-feet-2k/

 

My first game with it is on monday. I will report back to let you know how that works out for me.

So I don't know how good of a test that game really was. The scenario meant I really needed my opponents troops dead, and the way the battle worked out the sword bros ended up with that task.

I really wanted more attacks than I had, I think running them with chainswords is the way to go, as our characters are really good at chewing through heavier targets. I may even add a third squad of them since running them without upgrades is so cheap.

I don't think it's been mentioned here yet. Has anyone used the Field Commander strategem that allows you to give the Vigilus BT Warlord trait to a non-named character if it's in a sword brethren detachement? If I read it correctly it seems it can be used  in addition to having the regular BT Warlord trait if you're running Helbrecht, Grimaldus or the EC who can't take it.

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