Primaris Customisation or lack thereof

[Grim Dog Studios]

Hi all, I haven’t seen a topic about this at all in recent times so it may have been discussed before and if so I apologise.

But, I was just wondering if anybody else feels a bit let down by the lack of customisation with regards to the Primaris miniatures. I don’t mean this in the sense of army list options etc but in the actual figures themselves.

Compared to the old marine range, I feel like kitbashing the primaris miniatures takes a lot more work as the only things you can easily swap out are the arms, heads, shoulder pads and backpacks. This seems like a long list when written down, but in terms of actually changing how the miniatures look, swapping these parts out does very little. I am a huge fan of kitbashing and converting my models so that they are personal to me, but the Primaris miniatures quite often always look the same even if you do this.

I am talking mostly about the models stances regarding their torso and legs. With the old marines it was quite easy to get the miniatures to look different from one another, they could be posed in all of manner of forms by rotating the torso or slightly re-shaping the legs using the hot water method, but with Primaris it seems like this is a big undertaking especially when the 10 man squads are just repeats of the same 5 torso/legs set up. I also feel like having only two squads in the regular MK X armour plays a part in this (intercessors and hellblasters, not counting reivers are they have a slightly different look), whilst the old marines have so many kits with different torsos and leg poses etc it really makes kitbashing easy and fun to do.

Just to clarify I’m not making this thread to bash Primaris as I really like their look and size compared to the old marines, but I feel like this plays a big part in me not going full on with Primaris and sticking with old marines for the time being.

I was just wondering if anybody else felt the same way, or if there are people out there that have learnt tips and tricks in sorting this out?

 

James

[Robbienw]

Yes, its a major drawback.

 

It seems GW is going that way with all its new infantry kits these days though, not just with primaris.  You could see it starting in part a few years ago with the skitarri kits, then 2017 hits with the primaris and deathguard releases and since then everything seems to be multi-part but not interchangeable or poseable (except for the arms and head, in an often limited way).

 

It probably limits sales to modellers who want to make large armies because of the lack of variation.

 

Its only seems to affect infantry/human/human sized models, there is still good poseability  and interchangeability in robot type kits like the Adeptus Titanicus Titans and stuff like that.

[Lemondish]

I see it more as a trade off. You gain better proportions and more natural poses, but in exchange you give up the ability to sometimes twist the torso into different positions.

 

Aside from the currently limited selection of Primaris bits across the range, the truly only customization they don't allow compared to the old marines is tweaks to the torso.

 

Given this eliminates the awkward look of misposed models by ensuring a natural stance stays consistent throughout the model's body, I personally do not see it as a loss.

[Doghouse]

They're not far off being monopose and you end up with a units of similarly posed models.

 

The traditional marine kit is far more conversion friendly and allows a greater deal of posing and interchangeability at this stage. While badly proportioned it's greatest strengths are that they are simple to make and easy to make look unique to a degree with a huge range of options and parts.

 

I like Primaris Intercessors but limiting the torso to being fixed because of the abdominal plating you can barely see on most armed with Bolt Rifles is a restrictive chose I feel.

[SillyDreadnought]

I would like to make a Primaris Captain with a Power sword and plasma pistol. Or a power fist and bolt rifle. Those are options available to it, but sadly in mutually exclusive loadouts which is incredibly frustrating.

not to mention the complete lack of other, equally iconic weapons options that I have the bits for, but am actively discouraged from converting for the purposes of playing the game.

 

 

The lack of freedom to pose with the Intercessors, Aggressors, Reivers, Inceptors and Hellblasters is also aggravating. Better proportions isn't a worthwhile tradeoff for lack of creative freedom. A headswap and a shoulder pad change just aren't worth the loss of near limitless customisation out of basic kits. From selecting legs, torsos and heads to more adventurous conversions with a hobby saw and doing true mish-mashes of armour marks and truly representing the background in miniature form, Normal/Proper/Old/Classic Space Marines are just the better kit overall.

 

Which is a real shame because I want to like Primaris as kits. The finished models are very nice, but there's only so many I can get before I start seeing clones in squads. Something I avoid completely with the more freeform multiparts.

[Panzer]

You can use most stuff for Primaris you already use for regular Marines. All the little trinkets, helmets, pauldrons etc fit Primaris just fine. So the only things that we are lacking for now are torsos and legs, really (even the arms you can switch without it looking that weird).

About the torso rotating ... yeah you could do that but it always looked weird if you rotated it too much since bodies just don't twist like that. Never heard about reshaping legs with hot water aside from maybe resin tho so if that was a thing it wasn't a very common thing anyway I'd say.

 

Overall if you are willing to use parts from regular Marines I don't think there is such a big lack of customisation options for Primaris. Give it some time, it's still a model range in development and we only got a very limited amount of units so far.

I'm really more concerned about the lack of loadout options on HQs but this seems to be the new norm for all of GWs armies, not just Primaris.

[Doghouse]

 

 Never heard about reshaping legs with hot water aside from maybe resin tho so if that was a thing it wasn't a very common thing anyway I'd say.

 

 

It's a fairly old trick but then with the likes of marines you have to take into account the angle of the foot and the greaves. it used to be mostly used on guard and scouts that had less armour by putting in boiling water then bending and putting into cold water, people used to use a hair dryer to heat them up as well. 

[Robbienw]

Its not a trade off.  There is nothing to stop GW altering the proportions but still making a true multi-part multi-poseable  kit.  Closer to ideal art proportions don't require the models to be made in this way.

 

Its obviously a conscious design decision they have made to switch to producing kits this way, for whatever reason.  I have seen suggestions that its this way because the designers have come to prefer designing models this way from all the single sprue characters they have done, to suggestions that it is done to stop bits sellers making money.  Who knows the actual truth.

 

You aren't just losing 'tweaks' of the torso.  You are losing the full poseable movement of the torso, and the ability to co-ordinate movements of the other multi-part bits in concert with this.  Whilst you can still change arm and head positions with primaris, its limited in the sensible range you can do it to before it looks odd, with the bodies being locked in one place.  You also lose variation with lack of interchangeability between kits, and variation between basic marines with a lack of variant chest and legs parts.  You also lose the ability to place grenades and packs and other bits with them being molded on now, further taking away from variation between basic troops.

[Halandaar]

It's not about proportion, it's a about the poses being more natural. Rotating the torso on oldmarines often results in poses that don't make sense; if you stand up and twist to the right, your waist doesn't spin to face the same way as your chest, it stays where it is and your abdomen twists to accommodate your new position. If you rotated them too much, the older models look like they had broken spines and their bottom and top halves were held together with magnets.

 

The newer kits which have the torso and legs in fixed positions avoid that problem and result in much more natural poses, so yes, it is a tradeoff between customisation and more believable poses.

[Robbienw]

That is easily solved by not going over the top with rotating the torso.  I've built enough marines to know this.

 

My waist doesn't turn and face the same way as my chest of course not.  But you aren't seeing the marines actual chest and torso, you are seeing their armour over it.  If i hard ceramite armour over it you would see if face the same way (depending on the armour type or variation).

 

You can hardly even see the difference on primaris marines waists because the torso plates are large and plain, I'll take the customisation over multiples of 5 idenitical poses every time.

[Lemondish]

I understand what everyone is saying.

 

But I don't agree. I find Primaris superior models precisely because of their sculpts and not in spite of them.

 

The one thing lost is a single connection point between the legs and the torso. This absolutely reduces valid combinations, but I find I value the more deliberate, natural poses achieved with the current multi-part kit and believe there still exists enough variation in bit selection and position to easily make the same torso/leg combination look different for three different models. This doesn't really extend so far for Inceptors or Aggressors, which is where I do agree there are limitations on posing. But fixes there are what the hobby is about, so I can't be too upset.

 

What I absolutely do agree with is SillyDreadnought's point about selection of wargear in the game. It should be loosened for character models.

 

Certainly interesting to see other's opinions on this, just hope that we can agree to disagree under friendly terms here.

[Ishagu]

Aggressors and Centrions are a similar kit. The cables and what not limit how they can be posed.

 

I think the Primaris in general look far superior and have more dynamic, realistic and elegant poses. As for wargear, I don't care at all about having less options in the various squads but definitely want more customisation for HQs.

[Robbienw]

Primaris have the same posing range as classic marines with nothing new.  You won't find any unique leg poses in primaris infantry kits that I can't find in the range of classic infantry kits.  Behold all the primaris marines doing the standard 'squatting' pose   I'm not sure where this myth came from that primaris are better posed.

 

We can agree to disagree on good terms of course Lemondish, as it is subjective things we are talking about.  I would still contend your point that the only thing lost though is a connection point between the torso and legs, however.  For me variation is also lost with lack of variant torso and leg parts with differing detailing and the leg pose variation.

[Ishagu]

They look better, and are poses better. You can't deny that.

[Brother Casman]

You can absolutely deny that. My little nitpick of the Primaris Intercessors (which I otherwise love) is that you can't give the torso a slight twist anywhere. Not without a fair bit of work. There are times when I want to adjust a pose slightly, and on these boyos, I can't. Just a teensy bit disappointing.

[Robbienw]

Of course I can deny it, don't be silly ishagu.  You know I think they look worse

 

The leg poses are the same as classic marines.  Many a Primaris models is doing the squat.  If you have any evidence of leg poses of primaris that are different to what I can find in classic marine kits, please show it.  I can't find any.  Characters excepted of course.

[Ishagu]

You can absolutely deny that. My little nitpick of the Primaris Intercessors (which I otherwise love) is that you can't give the torso a slight twist anywhere. Not without a fair bit of work. There are times when I want to adjust a pose slightly, and on these boyos, I can't. Just a teensy bit disappointing.

No question that you can't twist them into other position and that it isn't ideal, but generally they look really good. Better than the Tac squads of all varieties. The poses all look more natural and elegant. No squats in sight lol

[RikuEru]

Even without the ability to twist the torso (...and the work to do so is not really THAT much) on the CURRENTLY available models (Future Releases may hopefully give us that ability) you can customize them quite a bit, especially if you mix the Arms available over the different kits.

Normal Marine Weapons and Hands can be used with no problem at all.

 

Just like it has always been.

 

Or does anybody want to tell me that most Marine Armies DON'T have a Chapter Master/Captain/Sergeant/Champion/Veteran with his power sword raised above his head (from the Chapter Command Squad Sprue)?!

Does your Librarian/Apothecary/Chaplain/Techmarine look really THAT different to many, MANY more in other people's collection!?

 

Sure the Primaris only have one of each, just a few Captains (...but a bunch of Lieutenants, tho!) by now.

But surely over the next few years there will be more Characters AND units, giving you a broader bandwidth of possible conversions and bits.

(For example: Look at the Stormcasts. By now they have gotten 3 interchangable, kit-bashable ranges to make YOUR guys)

[Halandaar]

For me variation is also lost with lack of variant torso and leg parts with differing detailing and the leg pose variation.

 

This I 100% agree with. Part of the reason we kitbash oldmarines is because of the variety of different styles of armour and stances that different kits offer; if every marine kit had all the models in "squatting" poses, there would be hardly any need to mix in legs from other kits. As it is, it's nice to add some Assault Marine or Vanguard Veteran legs to add dynamism and momentum, or Devastator ones for that heavy plated look and so on.

 

I daresay if there was a Primaris melee kit with running poses in normal MkX armour (not Reiver shorts), that would be sufficient to alleviate many complaints about customisation, even if the torsos were moulded on rather than ball & socket style. 

[Robbienw]

Future releases might do and they might not, Riku.  You might get Jam tomorrow. But we are talking about what is available now, nearly 2 years later.

 

Its also not about my models looking different to ones in other people collections.  Given the number of people who collect marines that is not realistic.  Its about my models looking different to other model in my army, so there is variation in the army.

 

I'm currently looking through the GW website for Primaris marines not in a standard 'squat' bracing leg pose, and the only ones I have found is the reiver doing the haters going to hate walk, and 3 or 4 Dark Imprium/ETB gus in walking poses

 

You are right halaandar, more Intercessor bodies in different poses (running and deathwatch style walking) would definitely alleviate the problem a bit, even if they did still have the torso join.  More variant torso plates that fit the same bodies would be good as well, with variant chest eagles.

[PeteySödes]

Oof I disagree heartily with those saying its good they locked the torso because of "awkward look of misposed models".

 

Thats like saying you want to eat the same 3 things the rest of your life to avoid cooking something wrong.

[Ishagu]

Do you own any Primaris, Robbienw?

 

I own more standard Marines than you, fully painted. I also own a lot of Primaris - more than most other people it seems. You know how much seperate torsos and legs matter? None at all. Between the Dark Imperium Intercessors and a full box of 10 from the regular line you can make 20 that look plenty varied and dynamic. The legs of the classic Marines are the main problem.

I think you need to handle the models, see them painted on the tabletop and use them in a game before you write them off.

[Robbienw]

Do you own any Primaris, Robbienw?

 

I own more standard Marines than you, fully painted. I also own a lot of Primaris - more than most other people it seems. You know how much seperate torsos and legs matter? None at all. Between the Dark Imperium Intercessors and a full box of 10 from the regular line you can make 20 that look plenty varied and dynamic. The legs of the classic Marines are the main problem.

Are you trying to claim that having more models makes your opinion more valid?! That is both bizarre and obnoxious :lol:

 

How do you know how many marines I have to judge you have more than me? Have you broken into my house at some point and counted them?

 

For the record I have hundreds of classics, some painted, many not :lol:

 

I have a redemptive and a set of 5intercessors as well, I brought the intercessors to see if I would grow to like them with repeated exposure (it didn’t work) and for bits.

 

Separate torsos and legs matter a lot, to provide more variation and better poses. That’s how it is for me, other opinions are available. A full box of 10 intercessors only gives 5 unique bodies, all the intercessprs from DI only gives what 6 more unique poses? It’s not variation for me.

 

The OP asked what people thought regarding lack of customisation of Primaris, I’ve given my opinion. You may not like it, but nobody cares and you will have to deal with it.

[Ishagu]

I wasn't insinuating anything. My observation is that you peddle your opinions more strongly than you need to. We've all heard them now, anything regarding Primaris is negative. I think it's becoming boring.

 

We've all agreed the figures have less customisation. We're also aware that this is a trend GW is repeating across multiple factions and model lines. I think that it has led to better looking but less flexible models in terms of pose. Its a fair trade off. Your opinion was overly negative "A Major drawback" I see it as a minor trade off. Better looking models in less poses. Lucky for us Primaris aren't a horde army.

[PeteySödes]

I wasn't insinuating anything. My observation is that you peddle your opinions more strongly than you need to. We've all heard them now, anything regarding Primaris is negative. I think it's becoming boring.

 

 

No offense but pot meet kettle...

 

We've all agreed the figures have less customisation. We're also aware that this is a trend GW is repeating across multiple factions and model lines. I think that it has led to better looking but less flexible models in terms of pose. Its a fair trade off.

 

I really don't think thats a fair trade though. You see a more standardized armies but thats so incredibly bland. I think I've seen maybe 2-3 people around the internet truly try to push the conversion on primaris. Thats so low its sad.

 

The paint jobs are incredible from those that can pull it off but hardly anyone seems to be even trying to chop them for unique posing or other envelope pushing hobbying.