mertbl Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Those that havent seen it it basically replaces rapid fire for all boltgun weapons and let's them double their number of attacks with the weapon if 1 of 3 conditions are met. A.unit hasn't moved B. Target is within half range C. Unit is terminator, bike, vehicle, centurion. So a storm bolter at 24" on a rhino fires 4 times, centurion hurricane bolter fires 12 times, etc. Does this bring the humble boltgun back to the table as more than just filler? Deathwatch and 1k sons seem to get an insane buff by this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 It may mean that the LRC gets more use? At least it doesn't have to drive within charge range of the enemy to fire to full effect. I may even get more than one turn's shooting out of mine! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
domsto Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 It is a nice buff but i don't think it will solve the Problems Marines currently have. I am looking forward to test the new rule on my bare bones Terminators. 4 shoots per model at 24" can be good to mow down some Horde. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Marines are a slightly more effective across the board which is excellent. Anything with Hurricane Bolters is substantially better at range and the Land Raider Crusader just jumped up in effectiveness whilst being the cheapest Land Raider. Centurions are very interesting now also. As for standard choices - Primaris are still going to be objective campers but now they have some competition believe it or not. 5 Tactical Marines with say a Lascannon can hang back and pump out 8 Bolter shots at range whilst firing the Lascannon at something important. Yet the Intercessors also benefit so as a choice aren't relegated to the bin. It's much more balanced and Marines can put crucial fire on things now. Plinking away wounds is going to be easier as is bringing multiple squads to bear on a single target from range. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Next step, plasma guns! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Next step, plasma guns! No. Plasma really doesn't need to be even stronger. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239414 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Personally I'd like to have seen Bolters go up in strength within half range since a bolter is generally bigger (thus the calibre is larger) for Astartes than unenhanced folk. Would encourage more forward aggressive play than hanging back and rapid firing. But the the rule is still welcome very much so. Helps so many units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 T E R M I N A T O R S Just sayin' Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239461 Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnkyHamHam Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Feels like Scout Bikes just became even more efficient. Edit: just a shame the grenade launchers (the way I built mine in 5th) are just not useful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruor Vault Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Feels like Scout Bikes just became even more efficient. Edit: just a shame the grenade launchers (the way I built mine in 5th) are just not useful. Yeah, but at the same time I think the choice between Regular bikes and Scout bikes just got a lot more complicated. Scouts still have the edge within 12" because of their shotguns, but with the change to Bolters regular bikes increased resilience makes them a better flanking harasser unit IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 T E R M I N A T O R S .... in Land Raiders Just sayin' fixed ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Pro move Dracos. Well done :tu: The more research I conduct on this, the more excited I get. Sure, Marines have more pressing issues, yet as a step in any direction, this is a good one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
9x19 Parabellum Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 point company vets (90 pts. total) can now put out 51 str. 4 attacks (5 storm bolters x 8 = 40 + 11 melee swings) with 3++. That's 1.76 pts per Str. 4 attack. That's pretty saucy if you ask me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 point company vets (90 pts. total) can now put out 51 str. 4 attacks (5 storm bolters x 8 = 40 + 11 melee swings) with 3++. That's 1.76 pts per Str. 4 attack. That's pretty saucy if you ask me. Storm Bolters only get 4 shots still, they can just do so from further away if they didn't move. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 18 point company vets (90 pts. total) can now put out 51 str. 4 attacks (5 storm bolters x 8 = 40 + 11 melee swings) with 3++. That's 1.76 pts per Str. 4 attack. That's pretty saucy if you ask me. No. The maximum amount of shots doesn't change at all. Just the condition when you get those maximum shots got added on. 5 Stormbolters still result in only 20 shots. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
autek mor Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 good to see GW trying something at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5239861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I like this rule. But not for bikes. How on earth does a moving motorbike with fixed guns get bonus shots at range. I don't see how they can hit a barn door. I'd have gone the other way and slap a -1 to BS on bikes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It's a great rule, a step in the right direction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 But not for bikes. How on earth does a moving motorbike with fixed guns get bonus shots at range. I don't see how they can hit a barn door. How... But seriously. They're superhumans with advanced tech to help as well as fancy genetic modifications. From a gaming point of view, Bikes don't need a -1, thank you very much, as they're already not actually good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I like this rule. But not for bikes. How on earth does a moving motorbike with fixed guns get bonus shots at range. I don't see how they can hit a barn door. I'd have gone the other way and slap a -1 to BS on bikes. *That* is where your suspension of disbelief kicks in? In other news, I like this change even if it isn't a massive game-changer. It makes Tacticals, the extra riflemen in Dev Squads, and Terminators a little bit better, and the bump to Hurricane bolters is also nothing to complain about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptix Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Pretty sure the reason bikes are included is because this is supposed to be pseudo relentless, which is why termies centurions and vehicles are also included: they have a solid enough frame to fire a bolter at max fire rate without impacting accuracy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It makes Primaris intercessors very good at guarding objectives and picking off light infantry from beyond the range of the enemy's guns. 2 Squads of 5 is now 20 shots at 30" range. Makes them better than Tau fire Warriors as 5 have the same number of shots as 10 Tau, but will better stats. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240196 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deafbok Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I'm looking forward to using this with my Company Veterans in particular - all rocking combi-plasmas, and with CF chapter tactics, so they're still hitting on 3+. That's a lot of dakka. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 It makes Primaris intercessors very good at guarding objectives and picking off light infantry from beyond the range of the enemy's guns. 2 Squads of 5 is now 20 shots at 30" range. Makes them better than Tau fire Warriors as 5 have the same number of shots as 10 Tau, but will better stats. At >15" they are slightly better, yes. Mostly due their T4 SV3+ though since 10 Firewarrior are still cheaper than 5 Intercessors and 10 W1 bodies is better than 5 W2 bodies. Also as soon as the Firewarriors have something to shoot at within 15" they are better again, especially with a Fireblade nearby. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240211 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I'd take 10 shots at 30" range at BS3+ with -1 AP over 10 shot at BS4 with no AP for only 15 points more. Not to mention the Primaris are t4 with a 3+ save. The Fire warriors have more board control, but it's nice that we can even compare them now! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353286-boltgun-beta-rule/#findComment-5240213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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