Complete FW Custodes Rules (Beta, Official)

[TheFinisher4Ever]

Has anyone have any play time with the Pallas? They look great on paper

I've gotten 2 games in with them so far. They are a steal for their points. They are very fast, very accurate (BS 2+, PotMS and no degrading? Hell yes), and are often ignored by your opponents due to having bigger threats on the board. They make amazing screens since you don't care if they get tied up. They are also the single cheapest Custodes unit.

[Ishagu]

Pallas are a gem of a mini tank. You can use them as a screening unit as well.

 

Same cost as a single Jetbike!

[TempestBlade]

Cool thanks. I think 2 Pallas and a Telemon Dreadnought will be my next purchase for custodes

[Charlo]

Yeah it feels like I'm going to need some Pallas... Very useful for the points! Could even take a few for a cheap Outrider Detachment for a cheeky CP...!

[Charlo]

I'll be taking a mostly FW list to a local ITC Tournament this weekend. Here is the list;

Trajann

Vexillus Praetor with Magnifica and Axe

2x Pallas

2x Caladius with Illiastus

2x 3 Sagittarum with knives

Telemon with Arachnus cannons

Orion Assault Dropship

 

I really like this list - it's completely unexpected for Custodes and leverages the across the board BS2+ well. It's also SO mobile!

 

The only issue is objectives I suppose with very little bodies to grab them.

[wildweasel]

The only drawback to the Pallas is the $93 USD price!

But given these are beta rules and such, I would not be surprised to see it end up going up to around 110-120 points. Much more than that and you start getting into "why not just shell out for a Caladius?" territory.

[Ishagu]

Cool thanks. I think 2 Pallas and a Telemon Dreadnought will be my next purchase for custodes

For me it will be 2x Pallas and 2x Calidius Tanks.

I have a wedding to pay for, a new car and other stuff. For the first time in my life I have a hobby spending limit :-(

[wildweasel]

I'll be hitting up the FW booth at LVO Thursday. I already have two Calidius with Ilastrus, so I'm set there, a Coronus, Achillus, and Galatus, with 3 Venatari, pythrite spears, and Sag upgrades out for delivery today.

A Telemon is def top of my shopping list, and a set of adrasite spears. I'll prob bite the the bullet on a Pallas, but as I plan to be ordering the Venatari Air Wing before long that will fill out my FA for now. The thing I'm really torn on is the Aquilon, since they don't sell weapons separate and I'd prefer fists regardless of the gun.

[balordazul]

The only drawback to the Pallas is the $93 USD price!

 

But given these are beta rules and such, I would not be surprised to see it end up going up to around 110-120 points. Much more than that and you start getting into "why not just shell out for a Caladius?" territory.

I do agree it is one of the best units in AC for point cost to game effect.

 

I am interested about everyones opinion on their three biggest losers out of the beta rules and why.  Also as it is opinion based anything is acceptable for any reason.  Looking at you Orion and your near $500 price tag. :(

 

For me it would be the following.

 

Custodian Guard with Adrasite spears - all the these wound self weapons are just bad and for the most part 40k has gotten away from them with alt weapon fire modes like plasma.

 

Sagittarum Guard - in part they have a mixed weapon set that does not work well together.  Also another weapon that can hurt yourself and the bolters closest analog is the heavy bolter.  If they had a alt fire for the beam that was safe and or a slightly better rate of fire for the bolter part they would be ok.  You have to many units that just do the job better.

 

Venatari - Because of points and balance they have a really small slot in the army I feel.  Bikes and terminators do the job better but these guys are your budget chaff unit.  I feel like they needed another special rule or two to give some utility.  Giving them a point swing is tough because of the elite nature of the AC units and not messing up the balance in the codex.

[balordazul]

 

Cool thanks. I think 2 Pallas and a Telemon Dreadnought will be my next purchase for custodes

For me it will be 2x Pallas and 2x Calidius Tanks.

I have a wedding to pay for, a new car and other stuff. For the first time in my life I have a hobby spending limit :-(

 

GOOOOO cheap and elope!!! 

 

#lifelessions

 

The money on a wedding is a solid down payment for a house. :)  Just saying but your other half will likely kill you. :) 

[Ishagu]

 

 

 

Cool thanks. I think 2 Pallas and a Telemon Dreadnought will be my next purchase for custodes

For me it will be 2x Pallas and 2x Calidius Tanks.

I have a wedding to pay for, a new car and other stuff. For the first time in my life I have a hobby spending limit :-(

GOOOOO cheap and elope!!!

 

#lifelessions

 

The money on a wedding is a solid down payment for a house. :) Just saying but your other half will likely kill you. :)

Already own a house! Thank the Emperor

[wildweasel]

Adrasite weaponry is so close but not quite there. I don't mind the self-wounding, but it should be an unmodified 1 IMO - which is something the Studio has been moving towards so it's odd they didn't do it here. It's not like Custodes are hurting for reroll auras. Also it all needs to be flat 3 Damage regardless. Both of these especially would help boost Sag, as you could then Advance or combo fire (or both) without it becoming total suicide and with the disintegration beam actually being worth it. And if I could get a pony they would also deal a MW on a wound roll of 6+.

 

I like what Venatari do (FLY and INFANTRY gets them places Termies and bikes can't necessarily go, and they can keep going there), but they do need a bit of a points drop or a little more special sauce. But that gets to what I maintain about these beta rules - we really don't have any bespoke flavor rules on the units beyond the very obvious/necessary, and I suspect they are working on those but wanted to get feedback on the basic functionality of the models and wargear first.

For me:

The Galatus, of course. It needs to hit a bit harder and, more importantly, have better anti-horde ability.

The Calidius with Arachnus. Just no comparison with the Ilastrus.

 

Jetbikes - aside from them being so unpleasing to my eye, the las-pulsar is the only pattern that looks like it can add anything to the army.

 

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I really like this list - it's completely unexpected for Custodes and leverages the across the board BS2+ well. It's also SO mobile!

 

The only issue is objectives I suppose with very little bodies to grab them.

Yeah, I got 1 game in with it and it was pretty strong. It's also a surprisingly flexible list. The Orion can fly off and do his own thing if necessary. The objective grabbing is definitely the weak point. My opponent is almost always going to get Hold More. But I'm hoping that due to the low amount of models in the list, I can offset that most turns with Kill More.

 

As for the 3 biggest disappointments, the first is easily the Galatus. The Galatus is more expensive than the Achillus, but is worse in every way except for +1 invuln. His melee weapon is far worse. Damage 3 compared to damage d6 minimum 3 and strength 7 compared to strength 14. His shooting is worse. The Achillus can take 2 flamers with the same stats in addition to his spear shooting. Or better than the flamers, he can take the much cheaper storm bolters that still hit on 2s. And the only thing you get in return for the Galatus, is +1 invuln. Other than being 1/6th more survivable, he really has no role that he's better at than the Achillus.

 

The second for me is the Heavy Blaze Cannon Caladius. The primary reason this guy disappoints me is that his gun is just a straight up worse than the Telemon version. And it even fails in comparison to the other gun on the same tank. The Iliastus Caladius is amazing.

 

And the third is the Agamatus Jetbikes. All of their guns being heavy hurts them right away as it essentially brings them down to BS 3+. And the range on either the Adrathic or the Las-Pulsar isn't high enough for you to not move. The Adrathic is especially hurt by this since it does mortal wounds on 1s and 2s when it moves. And it gets downgraded from D3 to Dd3? Hard pass. The Las-Pulsar is solid, it just doesn't have enough range and it's 2 expensive. The Lastrum bolt Cannon is ok, but I honestly see no reason to take it when there are already so many other sources of heavy bolters in the book including Sagittarum, which I think are better than most people give them credit for.

 

I think the Sagittarum could use a little bit of a points drop but I think they are decent as is. They bring something that custodies desperately needed, something that can sit in cover on an objective and still contribute. And since their guns are assault, they can shoot them while advancing making them decently fast. Give them knives and they can put out some decent hurt in combat too.

 

Edit* I just noticed that this is the exact same list as Wild Weasel. Great minds and all that.

[Diocletian Coros]

I'll have a 4k game this weekend against my Space Wolves. Apart from my list being only about 1/3 Custodes (the rest is Primaris Ultramarines and Knights) I'll be testing out some of the new stuff.

 

First off are the Aquilon Terminators. I really love the models and I have six magnetized guys sitting around here which I couldn't properly field until now. I'll try out three fists combined with two Adrathics and one Firepike. 

Secondly I have three Sagittarum in my list. I do like the models (that why I bought them in the first place) but I also think they make a great addition. Though they don't fill the anti-armor gap we certainly have, they do bring some nice fire power and can sit on backfield objects. Kitted them out with Misericodias so they are not that bad in close combat.

Third unit is a Caladius. He was great before the new FAQ and I still think he can do a lot of damage. He is my anti armor guy. Mine has a Illiastus and currently that is the better choice.

Lastly are the new Venatari. They models are - again -  amazing, but I do like the rules a lot. I have two pistols and one lance. Though I do think the pistols are better all around the lance is quite nice to. And I've broken one pistol and therefore had to take one lance

 

I'll keep you posted how it went.

[Danarc]

Actually, according to mathhammer the lance is always worst respect the pistol and buckler. on ranged they have the same stats, but the lance has 6" less range. on melee the better stat of the lance are outdone by the other weapons thanks to the pistol that can shot in melee. Taking in consideration a full round of shots against 10 kind of models (T8 TA2+, T8 TA 3+, T7 TA 3+, T7 TA3+ fly, T6 TA 3+, T6 TA3+ fly, T5 TA2+ 3W, T4 TA2+ 2W, T4 TA3+1W, T3 TA5+1W) 3 venetari with lance scores an average of 26,55 damage on shoot and 41,48 on melee against 26,55 and 54,94 for the version with buckler and pistol. 

Taking in consideration the difference of points (186 for the first type and 198 for the second) they have a damage per point (DPP) equal to 36,58 and 51,16.

This without considering the extra hit on 6 for the pistols and the defensive bonus of the shield. 

 

So, I think it is better going only with pistol and lance. Unfortunately lance has a poor design.

[Diocletian Coros]

Actually, according to mathhammer the lance is always worst respect the pistol and buckler. on ranged they have the same stats, but the lance has 6" less range. on melee the better stat of the lance are outdone by the other weapons thanks to the pistol that can shot in melee. Taking in consideration a full round of shots against 10 kind of models (T8 TA2+, T8 TA 3+, T7 TA 3+, T7 TA3+ fly, T6 TA 3+, T6 TA3+ fly, T5 TA2+ 3W, T4 TA2+ 2W, T4 TA3+1W, T3 TA5+1W) 3 venetari with lance scores an average of 26,55 damage on shoot and 41,48 on melee against 26,55 and 54,94 for the version with buckler and pistol. 

Taking in consideration the difference of points (186 for the first type and 198 for the second) they have a damage per point (DPP) equal to 36,58 and 51,16.

This without considering the extra hit on 6 for the pistols and the defensive bonus of the shield. 

 

So, I think it is better going only with pistol and lance. Unfortunately lance has a poor design.

 

It is good, that I don't have the time and energy for that :D Personally 'rule of cool' comes first. After that I take a rough look at the rules and if the problem is not too huge, I go with that I like. I like the lance from a model point of view and that is fine for me.

 

But thanks anyway for the indepth analysis! 

[Danarc]

Rule of cool beats everything!

 

[Krom4095]

For me:

 

The Galatus, of course. It needs to hit a bit harder and, more importantly, have better anti-horde ability.

 

The Calidius with Arachnus. Just no comparison with the Ilastrus.

 

Jetbikes - aside from them being so unpleasing to my eye, the las-pulsar is the only pattern that looks like it can add anything to the army.

 

 

I agree with this, especially the jet bikes & Galatus needing some tweeks. Another +1 invuln for real SS 3+ for Galatus, flat 3 dmg, and an anti-horde attack option would fix the Galatus. Otherwise, Achillus every day of the week.

[wildweasel]

Haha the person directly in front of me in the FW line at LVO this morning bought the last of the Arachnus arms for the Telemon. So I got it with a fist and pair of Ilastrus (figure they will be tweaking them before final publication). Also: Ixion Hale, Aquilons with fists/bolters/devastators, Pallas, and a set of adrasite spears.

[Loshkins]

Been playing around with possible lists and the more I think about the Pallas the more I like them. Had thought about running a double Telemon with DS dreads and Aquilon but that seemed way too one dimensional and easy to out maneuver, so now I'm pulling the trigger on this;

 

Captain on bike
5x Aquilon with firepikes and gauntlets

Achillus (to support the Aquilon)
2x Pallas

2x Praetors (three per squad)

1x Telemon with double Arachnus

1x Caladius

[Krom4095]

I love those big Aquilons (own 9 in various configurations), but for the life of me, I can't figure out why you would ever take the power talon (lightning claw) over the power gauntlet (power fist without the -1 to hit).

Re-rolling wound rolls when gauntlet gets x2 STR for easier wound rolls to begin with seems a poor trade-off. Is there a situation where this isnt the case?

[Diocletian Coros]

So I had my game today with my buddy. 4k Ultramarines + Custodes + Knights vs. Space Wolves + Knights. We played one of the narrativ missions from CA18 and it was very fun. Also I've won in the end.

 

Concerning the new Custodes units:

• The Sagittarum were very nice. They very running around behind my main close combat advance and were able to last almost the full game in full strength. The constant "heavy bolter" fire from them adds up. And versus Primaris (my buddy had about 80% of his infantry in Primaris) the D3 damage from the underslung Adrathic weapon are also nice.
• The Aquilon were not really able to shine. They ripped a Wolf Lord in Gravis Armor apart like paper and made some damage on a knight. But because of the mission I had to place them in a rather bad spot and shortly after their arrival they were shot to pieces.
• The Caladius is a real work horse. He died in turn 4 or 5 but before that he really did a number on a lot of targets. The Lastrum is a better twin heavy bolter and is just annoying to the enemy. The main gun in basically a 8 shot battle cannon and he nearly killed two Helverins, put quite a dent in a Land Raider and chopped of some wounds of a Knight. He is an auto include for me because my Primaris Ultramarines and the Custodes lack long range fire power.

On a side note:

I've played a Knight Acheron and he is a beast. The flamer is just so freaking awesome against anything. The chainfist killed two of the named characters of the Space Wolves and the feet killed some infantry. He was - because of the setup - in Close Combat from turn one on and just slaughtered himself through the Space Wolves. Died on turn 5 with his last wound being taken by a unit of Hellblasters that had returned from the rule "wave by wave" (or whatever it is called in English; I have the german rules).

 

I really looking forward fielding some more Sagittarum maybe on my game next week. Was aiming for two unit of four. They are decent in close combat with Misericordia and bring in some much needed fire power. Also I wanted to try some more of the Aquilon terminators and maybe one of my Telemon dreads.

[burningsky25]

I love those big Aquilons (own 9 in various configurations), but for the life of me, I can't figure out why you would ever take the power talon (lightning claw) over the power gauntlet (power fist without the -1 to hit).

Re-rolling wound rolls when gauntlet gets x2 STR for easier wound rolls to begin with seems a poor trade-off. Is there a situation where this isnt the case?

 

Well, technically speaking, against anything with T4, 1 wound, and 5+ armor save or worse, the talon will be just as effective as the fist.  Or if you're facing something really low toughness with a good invulnerable save with only 1 wound . . dire avengers in some situations or eldar guardians buffed with the 4+ invuln strat? Actually a better example would be all the little demons out there.  Practically speaking the talon will only be marginally more effective against imperial guard, gaunts, and small demons.  If you expect to ever fight multi-wound models or decent armor saves the fist will tremendously outclass the talon.  Though there does exist specific scenarios where the talon would be better than a fist they are so few, and so minor a cost difference, it would never justify actually equipping them with it.  

 

I'm not sure what a good solution is other than making the talon a lot cheaper, or maybe adding a +1 attack for being equipped with a talon? Maybe that would be too good.  Perhaps making the talon 2 damage, thus making it effective against heavier infantry but less specialized against vehicles and creatures.  It would be practically the same for raw damage output as the fist, but the strength and ap differences would still keep it specialized against infantry while the fist would be the more-expensive all-rounder for vehicles and monstrous creatures.  Maybe they would still overlap too much, I'm not sure.  

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If your terminators are fighting chaff you’re doing something wrong.

[Charlo]

If your terminators are fighting chaff you’re doing something wrong.

A very easy statement to make, but sometimes needs must and Custodes cannot be active on the entire board at once. Occasionally you'll need to sweep the chaff away with the big boys for whatever reason.