Complete FW Custodes Rules (Beta, Official)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It’s rare for me except maybe mopping up during end game.

[balordazul]

So I had my game today with my buddy. 4k Ultramarines + Custodes + Knights vs. Space Wolves + Knights. We played one of the narrativ missions from CA18 and it was very fun. Also I've won in the end.

 

Concerning the new Custodes units:

• The Sagittarum were very nice. They very running around behind my main close combat advance and were able to last almost the full game in full strength. The constant "heavy bolter" fire from them adds up. And versus Primaris (my buddy had about 80% of his infantry in Primaris) the D3 damage from the underslung Adrathic weapon are also nice.
• The Aquilon were not really able to shine. They ripped a Wolf Lord in Gravis Armor apart like paper and made some damage on a knight. But because of the mission I had to place them in a rather bad spot and shortly after their arrival they were shot to pieces.
• The Caladius is a real work horse. He died in turn 4 or 5 but before that he really did a number on a lot of targets. The Lastrum is a better twin heavy bolter and is just annoying to the enemy. The main gun in basically a 8 shot battle cannon and he nearly killed two Helverins, put quite a dent in a Land Raider and chopped of some wounds of a Knight. He is an auto include for me because my Primaris Ultramarines and the Custodes lack long range fire power.

On a side note:

I've played a Knight Acheron and he is a beast. The flamer is just so freaking awesome against anything. The chainfist killed two of the named characters of the Space Wolves and the feet killed some infantry. He was - because of the setup - in Close Combat from turn one on and just slaughtered himself through the Space Wolves. Died on turn 5 with his last wound being taken by a unit of Hellblasters that had returned from the rule "wave by wave" (or whatever it is called in English; I have the german rules).

 

I really looking forward fielding some more Sagittarum maybe on my game next week. Was aiming for two unit of four. They are decent in close combat with Misericordia and bring in some much needed fire power. Also I wanted to try some more of the Aquilon terminators and maybe one of my Telemon dreads.

Sagittarum seem to be a boarder line unit.  I think they do need some tweaks but this is a unit people are on the fence about.  

[Diocletian Coros]

 

Sagittarum seem to be a boarder line unit.  I think they do need some tweaks but this is a unit people are on the fence about.  

 

 

I think the Adrathic weapons need a bit more strength. The S5 is just not really that dangerous but the damage can be very nice. The heavy bolter part is nice. They have the range to support from the back securing a strategic target and don't die that easy. And in a bad case they can be not to shabby nice with the Misericordia in cc. 

[kombatwombat]

Sagittarum seem to be a boarder line unit. I think they do need some tweaks but this is a unit people are on the fence about.

Make all Adrathic weapons flat Dmg3 rather than some of them being DmgD3 (they all need the help), and make the Bolt part of the Sagittarum’s Caliver Dmg2. Along with a Misericordia you end up with a nasty little anti-elite unit.

 

Edit: Also, further down the line, make a generic Stratagem that lets any Adrathic weapon target characters for 2CP. Adrathics suddenly become terrifying when they’re pointed at your warlord.

[wildweasel]

The Custodes aren’t really lacking for elite killing power. It’s their ability to clear larger units of cheaper bodies that’s an issue. The bolt volley profile is fine. The disintegrator absolutely needs to be flat 3D and the MW only proc on unmodified 1’s.

[swordofmandulis]

The Custodes aren’t really lacking for elite killing power. It’s their ability to clear larger units of cheaper bodies that’s an issue. The bolt volley profile is fine. The disintegrator absolutely needs to be flat 3D and the MW only proc on unmodified 1’s.

I agree with this, but I still think the mortal wounds are too higher price to pay, maybe for 3 damage it would be OK, but for D3 it's so not worth it.

[wildweasel]

Custodes aren’t hurting for the reroll 1 aura, which is why I have the “and” in there - with the minuses for combo firing or Advancing and firing, those abilities are worse than usually on the Sag, when they should be cool options.

[Charlo]

I really don't think the mortals are that bad. Custodes have a lot of wounds and easy access to re-roll ones. You'll mostly be firing the HB profile until you are danger close and even then across the 5 shots you'll do with Death Beams, after re-rolls you won't be taking a lot of wounds.

[FarFromSam]

I'm new to this edition's modifiers. Am I correct in believing that you can only reroll natural 1's? So, if you advance and/or fire both profiles you can't re roll 3's/2's but you'll still take a mortal wound on them but because of the timing of the modifiers you won't be able to reroll 3's/2's? (Which is silly)

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

I'm new to this edition's modifiers. Am I correct in believing that you can only reroll natural 1's? So, if you advance and/or fire both profiles you can't re roll 3's/2's but you'll still take a mortal wound on them but because of the timing of the modifiers you won't be able to reroll 3's/2's? (Which is silly)

Yes exactly like how plasma works you would have to burn a cp for rolling a 2.

[shanewatts]

Has anyone provided their feedback to GW for these rules yet? I am trying to get one more tournament in before I do my write up and I hope there isn't a deadline to provide information that I may miss.

[Charlo]

Has anyone provided their feedback to GW for these rules yet? I am trying to get one more tournament in before I do my write up and I hope there isn't a deadline to provide information that I may miss.

 

No deadline given.

 

I imagine eventually they'll be updated and compiled into a book but my guess would be ~1 Year at the absolute minimum.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Not yet but I plan to for sure .

[duz_]

I haven't had a chance to play with any of the new rules yet, but perhaps someone can start a seperate thread to compile thoughts and suggestions so people can provide similar feedback where there's agreeance? 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

My request is that it does not turn into hardcore wish-listing. :)

[burningsky25]

 

Has anyone provided their feedback to GW for these rules yet? I am trying to get one more tournament in before I do my write up and I hope there isn't a deadline to provide information that I may miss.

 

No deadline given.

 

I imagine eventually they'll be updated and compiled into a book but my guess would be ~1 Year at the absolute minimum.

 

 

Question about that - do we even know what sort of form factor that will look like? It was mentioned initially as an Imperial Armor type volume, but if GW is primarily producing that is that still expected to be the case? Are we looking at some sort of Codex 2.0 or just an official Adeptus Custodes Supplement?

[wildweasel]

I suspect the IA Talons book is dead in the water, with the GW Design Studio taking over rules writing for FW models. At the LVO seminar they did say they are open to doing updated editions of Codices where appropriate, but since “Can buy a kit from GW” is a major element of what makes it into Codices, I doubt we will see that for the FW units.

 

The most likely places IMO are either Chapter Approved or a campaign book (the latter possibly drawing on some of the material that was in process for the IA book). A bit more “pie in the sky” for me would be for the Design Studio to go through and do a complete overhaul of the IA Indicies.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Thoughts so far after 3 games (two imperial fist one new gene cults).

 

I still loath all random shot and damage profiles.

 

 

The adrathic weapons need snazzing up. Pretty much all around especially on Sagittarum though I haven't play tested new profiles but as they are they lack a solid role.

 

The tanks I still feel should have a 2+ save but the improved invul does enough work for me to let it lay.

 

Achilius dread is currently flat useless with the sword as is. For sure needs a better profile on damage and I maintain dreads should be able to fire weapons in cc it's just so thematic.

[swordofmandulis]

Hellex, guess you meant the Galatus but you are totally right, it needs to change, I'd like to see it get 4 attacks at S10 -3 D3, or be able to choose to do 8 attacks Strength User -2 D1.

[Mr. Funktastic]

Also I didn't know if anyone noticed, but they did nerf the Achillus so it's 10W instead of 12W, which doesn't make much sense to me. It and the other Custodes Contemptors should be at least on par with a Relic Contemptor that SM can take! I wouldn't mind seeing them get bumped up by like 15 pts or so in exchange for getting their 12W back.

[Diocletian Coros]

I'm currently playtesting all the units I have. So anything besides the Orion, Pallas and Gryfalcon is on the table. When I've made two to three games with all the units I'll write up a feedback to GW about the rules. So far:

• The Sagittarum could be moved to troops. But I guess that would mean a lot of fellas wouldn't take normal Guards for Troops anymore and just Sagittarum. So maybe not a good idea.
• The Adrathic weapons are okay-ish. A boost to strength 6 would be nice, but they are not intended as tank hunting weapons. They kill multi-wound infantry good enough in my opinion. Also I get that the twin variant of the weapon does fixed 3 damage as the single shot variants do D3 damage. It's like a focused beam or so.
• I'd like to mix the special spears into the normal squad on a 1 per 3 basis or so. At least you could get some nice anti tank weapons into your normal squads.
• The Calladius is very awesome. I is quite cheap and in my games he did a lot of work. Now with PotMS and the flare shield, he is fast and durable.
• The Telemon is also awesome. I don't like the twin gun variant (from a aesthetic point of view) but he is durable, has decent cc power and looks mean.

The Aquilon are my next test subject. I'll field them this weekend against a Chaos buddy. Goal is to get them in via Vexilla Teleport homer in the midst of the enemy close combat unit push. They should be able to handle things ;)

[TheFinisher4Ever]

I got in a few more games with some Beta units this past weekend and I have now had a chance to try them all out. Here are my thoughts;

 

Contemptor-Achillus - This bad boy is pretty spot on at this point. I'd consider changing his dreadspear shooting to Assault so he doesn't get the -1 when shooting but other than that, he's great. Fairly durable, absolutely brutal in combat, and pretty speedy as well. Clocking in at 140 points with Storm Bolters, he's probably the best melee Contemptor in the game.

 

Contemptor-Galatus - Unlike the Achillus, this guy needs some work. He's 15 points more expensive than his brother but he has far worse melee and worse shooting. You go get a 4+ invuln for those points, but I just don't see myself ever using this guy over the Achillus again. The -1 to hit in melee is useful, but I don't see this guy getting assaulted all that often so I'm not sure how frequently that will come up. So what changes does he need? There are a couple of simple changes that would make him far more appealing. The first is to increase his defense by making his invuln a 3++. This gives him a much more defined role as a defensive tough unit. A 2+ 3++ 6+++ unit is nothing to sneeze at. If they want to go the other direction and give him more offense, they could make his shooting attack into a pistol, and make his additional hits in melee more reliable. Id make it proc on a 4+. Now he has defined roll, chewing through infantry and light vehicles. Either way, his sword needs to be buffed in melee. It is currently the worst dreadnought CC weapon in the game. At a minimum, it needs S+1 or +2. A S7 dreadnought CC weapon is silly.

 

Aquilon Terminators - Aquilons are one of the best units in the new rules. Stormbolters and fists are the ideal loadout, though I did try games with firepikes and Adrathics. The unit themselves don't need any changes, but some of their guns do. The firepikes currently are just a tad too expensive compared to the stormbolters. I would lower them down to 10 points. They are fine other than that. I really like the Addrathic Destructor, it makes the unit faster, due to being assault, and the flat 3 damage is nice. Its just not worth 20 points due to the gets hot and S5. I would either lower the points down to 10 or increase the strength to 6 or 7. The solerite talon is currently close to useless compared to the fist and it desperately needs to be reworked. I will never bring this unit without spending the extra 4 points for the fists, which are better against ever target except guardsmen. Guardsmen that your stormbolters will probably already have melted.

 

Adrasite and Pyrithite Custodian Guard - This is the only unit I haven't actually tried. They need to either be rolled into the regular Custodian Guard squad as an upgrade, or they need to be turned into an alternate troop choice. As it is, I don't see myself ever using them.

 

Agamatus Jetbikes - Looking at this unit a vacuum, they seem pretty solid. Unfortunately, when compared to the GW bikes, they really fall short IMO. Their stats and melee weapons are fine, as they are exactly the same as the GW bikes. Its the ranged weapon and price that makes the GW bikes superior. The biggest problem with the Agamatus ranged weapons is that they are heavy. For a unit that needs to be utilizing their speed and melee potential, having heavy weapons hurts. The Adrathic Devastator is even worse about it due to gets hot. Facing an army with -1 to hit is going to really start piling on the mortal wounds. And this weapon doesn't even get the flat 3 damage to compensate. Hard pass. The Lastrum Bolt Cannon is solid, other than being Heavy, its just too easy to get lastrum bolt cannons on chassis' with PotMS for it to be worth it. Its also more expensive than the hurricane bolters, but not by much. The Twin Las-pulsar looks promising except that its too expensive for its stats. Sitting at 40 points a pop, it is the most expensive option by a mile. But the stats are just not quite their for it. Its heavy, so -1 to hit pretty much always, especially when coupled with the relatively short 24" range. Its S8, which means it isn't great against Leman Russ' and Knights, which are very common right now. And its only AP-2 so most tanks are getting either a 4+ or 5+ save against it.

 

Venatari Custodians - The Venatari are a really fun unit that struggles due to the comparison to the GW bikes again. For 24 more points per model, the GW bikes get +2" M, +1 T, +1 W, +1 A, +1 Ld, +1 Sv and an automatic 6" advance. They also get a far superior melee weapon. The Venatari just need to be cheaper. With their current stats, I would lower them down to 55 points. That makes them 3 points more expensive than a standard Custodian Guard, but they get a jump pack and lose their 2+ save and aren't troops. Other than the price, the unit is really fun. I love the Kinetic Destroyers and the double hits on 6s is ace.

 

Pallas Grav Attack - The Pallas is the best unit in the new rules. Period. It is 100 points of pure awesome. I don't see myself ever building another Custodes list without at least 2 of them. This is the only unit in the book that might actually need a nerf. I love this thing. I don't have a negative word to say about it honestly.

 

Caladius Grav Tank - The Caladius is another stand out unit. The Caladius with Iliastus Accelerator has been a very solid unit in every game I've used them in. They don't need any changes. However, the Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon does need some changes. I haven't used it in a game yet that I didn't regret not taking the Iliastus. The only thing its better against is T8 models with no invuln and a 3+ save. Other than that, the Iliastus is better against everything. And its cheaper by 10 points. How to fix it? Make the beam mode Heavy 4 and bump the range up on both profiles slightly. That roughly doubles its damage potential against its ideal targets, T8 vehicles.

 

Telemon Dreadnaught - The Telemon is the 2nd best unit in the beta rules. He's a stand out player in every game I bring him. And his fists and the Arachnus Storm Cannon are both fantastic. The only thing I would change on this unit is to buff the Iliastus Accelerator Culverin. Currently, its too few shots and too low of strength. Sure you've got 2 extra shots over the Arachnus beam, but you've got half of the range, 2 lower strength, 1 less AP and 1 less damage. The Accelerator Culverin either needs 6 shots or Strength 8.

 

Sagittarum Custodians - The Sagittarum are one of the most divisive units in the beta rules but I am 100% on the positive side. That isn't to say they don't need improvements, but I think they are mostly in a great place. The only changes I would make are either a slight points drop, down to 50 points per model, or increase the damage on the disintegration beam to a flat 3.

 

Coronus Grav-Carrier - the Coronus is a great unit that only needs 1 change. As a transport, it does exactly what it needs to do. It just needs some way to mitigate models dying when the vehicle is destroyed. The Cheapest possible model that can be transported by it is 52 points. With a slightly unlucky roll, you could easily lose between 52-156 points worth of models which happened in one of my test games. I would give it the following rule "Re-enforced Troop Bay: When this vehicle is destroyed, roll 1d6 for each model being transported. Each roll of 1 is a mortal wound instead of a dead model."

 

Orion Assault Dropship - I have very little I would change about the Orion other than the change to the Arachnus Heavy Blaze Cannon listed with the Caladius. It has the same problem with transporting Custodes as the Coronus, but its also far faster and slightly tougher, with the added benefit of being able to get -2 to hit on it fairly easily. I don't think it needs the extra rule that I think the Coronus does. It is a solid unit.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Thanks for the write up.

[Charlo]

Nice feedback, good to have some insight behind the Forgeworld units based on play testing. I hope they sort the Jetbikes and Heavy Blaze out, as those are the units I have.

 

I think Saggitarum are absolutely fine too, yes it would be nice to be an unmodified 1, but most other weapons with a "Get's Hot" suffer the same fate, and Custodes can suffer a MW or two for the sake of extra damage. The Heavy Bolter profile is why you'd take them anyway IMO.

[Krom4095]

Thanks a lot for the write-up, Finisher. I hope all of us get that amount of playtesting in, and more importantly, give GW our feedback in a timely and professional manner so they can make the necessary changes to give us a deep, functional, and competitive Custodes army.