Captain Idaho Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I'd pay an extra 30pts or so for a Chaplain with that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Said it before and I will say it again: Captains reroll hits. Lieutenants reroll wounds. Chaplains should reroll saves. Fixed. YES. Absolutely. I’d still want Captains for the frontline infantry, but hell yes, drop the Chappie next to my Intercessors and call it a day for the backfield. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Re roll saves is a big no from me. It led to the invincible stuff in 7th, and even if controlled is too powerful imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Considering the amount of shots and attacks available these days and the way AP works I doubt it comes anywhere close to invincible. Could always limit it by excluding Invulnerable saves, in which case given the state of Marines I doubt it sends them into the top tier. Would be a nice way to buff power armor and an underused HQ. I doubt it will happen but something needs to be done about power armor. Chappie would be a unique way to make that happen. They wouldn't be spammed either because your beatsticks and attack rerolls are too important to drop your Captains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Ed Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 To clarify, we're talking about a reroll 1s aura like the other officers. A reroll all saves aura sounds like something Rogal Dorn may do, like Guilliman rerolls wounds. And, as a Stormcast Eternal player, rerolling 1s is a far cry from the invisible death stars of yesteryear. The AP system is totally unaffected by it. At the end of the day, it buffs marines against small arms with no AP (e.g. the very thing they should be resilient to) and provides a slight increase to durability against armor piercing weapons. 8th Ed is far too lethal. This would bring chaplains back, help marines, and even be fluffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Also bear in mind that rerolls happen before modifiers, and AP modifies the save roll, so even if it were reroll all saves, it'd still only function on a 1 or 2 (or 3 for Scouts). If we exclude Invulnerable saves, which seems mostly reasonable (maybe Terminators can be somehow get it for their Crux but not Storm Shields? Dunno, anyway...), then it's hardly insane, even with reroll all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sword Brother Adelard Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 It's fluffy too. A Chaplain inspiring his brothers to shrug off wounds which would fell a normal marine. We need to spam GW with this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Yeah Chaplains are usually either depicted as motivating fellow Marines to get their ass up and take out the opponent (which would be the current version in the rules) or as motivating fellow Marines to suck it up and be a man (which would be the re-roll saves version). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 The alternative boost to Chaplains could be Mortal Wounds saves from Psykers to represent sheer stubbornness and the effect belief has on the Warp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Mortal wound defence sounds good to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garreth Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 FnP 5+ in 6" aura will suffice too. Even 6+ would be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Dunno, for BA player it would just invalidate the relic banner lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Dunno, for BA player it would just invalidate the relic banner lol I don’t see how, it’d be an aura most like and just another vector to make an anti mortal wound build. At any rate, if we play that game we’ll never get improvements because “what about ____”.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unseen Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Chaplains should get to either deny one power like the warlord does, or grant fnp vs mortal wounds, and grant old FEARLESS, in addition to their rerolls in the fight phase. No points changes. That, plus bringing the melee units available to codex space marines up to par would see them hit the table. Currently they suffer because a crozius is merely an ok weapon, on a dedictated beatstick character, in a codex with no real unit to leverage the rerolls to hit with. Would also help if GW didn't decide that rerolls before modifiers was somehow a good idea. Powerfist rerolling 1s,2s, and 3s around a chaplain would be peachy. They should do something with the lieutenant, maybe something like the fireblade from Tau, or be able to fall back and shoot/charge without penalty, or just, something that doesn't make them a captain but worse. Librarians just need non-:cusse powers. I don't feel bad running BA ones, because between wings, unleash rage, quickening, and smite, they *do* things fairly consistently, the duds being the 2 offensive powers and shield being merely ok after they smacked it with the nerf bat from the index from a 4++ to a 5++. Codex librarians have what, null zone and smite? Null zone is hard to pull off thanks to its tiny range and high cast, and smite on a *100ish* pt body is super underwhelming most of the time. Techmarines should do more than heal a tank once per round. Say, grant *Power of the Machine Spirit* to a single vehicle/vehicles within 6". These are Adeptus Astartes specialists trained on Mars, they should do more than a lowly enginseer does. What's left... Ohh yeah. Champions. They exist. They suck, because nobody wants to spend an elite slot on a single 4W beatstick character with a 3+/5++ and a special rule that only kicks in when said beatstick is fighting another beatstick character that's probably going to kill him. Give him always strikes first and a *challenge* mechanic of some kind. Apothecaries should still grant a fnp bubble, there I said it. A 6+++, but still. Healing a model for d3 wounds is alright if you build towards abusing it, is super bad otherwise, and rezzing on coin flip at the cost of the models whole turn is pathetic. Even for marines, there isn't anything so expensive that isn't better to just bring more of what you want him to heal than to bring him. Standard Bearers are pretty neat mostly. Marines holding on to life for just a few more moments, to slay just one more foe before they succumb so as to not dishonor their standard is a cool idea and works on the tabletop fairly well. TLDR, as long as marine characters are limited to mediocre auras that don't stack up well vs a generic captains rerolls and are also simultaneously weaker beatsticks at the same time and don't bring anything unique to the table, they aren't going to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Dunno, for BA player it would just invalidate the relic banner lol I don’t see how, it’d be an aura most like and just another vector to make an anti mortal wound build. At any rate, if we play that game we’ll never get improvements because “what about ____”.... Because that's the exact same aura the BA relic banner gives. That's how lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Dunno, for BA player it would just invalidate the relic banner lolI don’t see how, it’d be an aura most like and just another vector to make an anti mortal wound build. At any rate, if we play that game we’ll never get improvements because “what about ____”....Because that's the exact same aura the BA relic banner gives. That's how lol Doesn't invalidate the relic - just gives you multiple ways to achieve the same effect. For some, the relic would be the better choice. For others? Well, frees up a relic slot or you can now supply it over a much wider area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 Well we are moving away from the topic in hand so back to the Captain... *** I'm thinking there are basically 3 reasons we take a Captain and 2 of those are linked: 1) His reroll Aura. 2) His stats. 3) His wargear options. Now, considering these we have different roles for a Captain. The wargear we choose will be largely dependent on the role our Captains are designated to play in our army. A reroll Aura buff to shooting support elements certainly only needs a very basic level of equipment. They come with Mastercrafted Bolter and can make do with just a Power Sword (though I doubt very much anyone would stick to the Chainsword at just 4pts for a power sword). The assault element Captain needs to think carefully over what he's doing alongside what his chums are up to. If you got a whole bunch of dudes with power fists and multiple anti tank weapons, do you really need a Thunder Hammer Captain? The Captain is likely going to die launching himself at a Knight so the extra expense of a Thunder Hammer is felt much more accutely. However, the Thunder Hammer will put the most wounds on a single target in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 I don't agree. It sounds nice in theory but in reality any Captain pretty much just takes TH/SS unless you are really in need of a few more points. The other weapons don't make enough of a difference against Infantry to warrant being worse against everything else (that being said against T4, infantry with multiple wounds or FnP the TH is still better anyway), it's still rather cheap, he can still act as scary counter assault unit for your gunline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 It's 21pts which is very expensive compared to a 9pt power fist or Relic Blade. I agree wounding on a 2+ is very nice but wounding on a 3+ isn't terrible. Hitting on 3s is very bad though because the reroll of ones. Personally I will try a power fist/Thunder Hammer Captain one day in 8th (other models have power fists in my army just not the Captain lol). For now I'm happy with my accurate weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 The biggest argument against the Relic Blade is still the lack of Stormshield to be fair. I'd rather take a fist+shield than a relic blade and then it's just a small step to the superior thunderhammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 It's the same points difference though. Yeah the lack of a Storm Shield is annoying but then I do have access to the Sanctic Halo. On that note: The Captain can have reasonable firepower in the form of Combi weapons, or cheap pistols (5pts for a Plasma Pistol is great, as is a Mastercrafted Bolter) and being able to fire is useful. So if your Captain is not designed to act like a fire and forget missile due to die, taking a Storm Shield isn't essential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallas Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 So if your Captain is not designed to act like a fire and forget missile due to die, taking a Storm Shield isn't essential. TH/SS Captains don't have to be sacrificial I've been using TH/SS Wolf Lords and Battle Leaders (who obviously use TH way better as they are hitting on 2s) and it's simply not necessarily a suicidal unit. It can be, but that's up to the player, and playing them more conservatively is often far more effective and gets more value out of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 True. A 3+ invulnerable is very nice and inconvenient to the opponent. But I still don't think it is essential, especially when you're trying to wring every point out of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.