Primaris Vanguard

[Nusquam]

They're great in the right moment. It's just those moments are fewer and father between these days with no deepstrike turn 1.

 

The meta favors gunlines and shooting turn one. Marines also have Auspex scan to unload on deepstrikes as well. With proper placement you can anticipate where they will land and unload with different types of rerolls. This is less effective against deepstriking dreads but they don't care if they land outside of 12" to unload shots.

 

The scramblers are good, just not 22ppm good.

 

Amending next post/Edit: Just realized one scenario where smoke grenades might be worth forgoing shooting:. That turn one charge into a unit on a flank. Maybe you're in charge range but out of LoS. Pop smoke so with they fall back or you kill them you have a -2 to get shot being RG from the rest of the army. Less damage than rapid fire and charge but against chaff units they could die in morale. Combo with a PHOBOS Libby to worsen their leadership. If they survive most chaff can't shoot after gaming back.

[Claws and Effect]

I've been waiting until I had the rules in hand to weigh in on this one any further than expressing my excitement.

 

And I concluded that the Vanguard Primaris are exactly what I needed to respark my waning interest in playing RG.

 

I'm in a couple buy/sell/trade groups that have people parting out Shadowspear boxes and I'm going to be running a 3 Eliminator squad Spearhead led by the Phobos Captain (who is getting a beaky helmet) supported by a 3 Vindicare Vanguard.

 

My Battalion will be 2 10-man Infiltrator squads and a 10-man sniper Scouts squad, led by the Vanguard Librarian (who I am currently in the midst of painting) and Chaplain Cordae.

 

Add a Vanguard Veterans squad to run with Cordae and some heavy support and Robert is your mom's brother.

 

The idea? Take out opponents HQ early on, which makes nearly all armies less effective pretty much immediately. Then systematically take them apart, because that's what Corax would do.

 

VICTOROUS AUT MORTIS!

[thewarriorhunter]

...3 Eliminator squad Spearhead led by the Phobos Captain (who is getting a beaky helmet) supported by a 3 Vindicare Vanguard.

 

 

I'm not a fan of any of the non-helmet heads. I was thinking of swapping them all out as well, but what are you going to do to get rid of the helmet modeled on the captain's side? Just shave it down as cleanly as possible?

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

...3 Eliminator squad Spearhead led by the Phobos Captain (who is getting a beaky helmet) supported by a 3 Vindicare Vanguard.

 

I'm not a fan of any of the non-helmet heads. I was thinking of swapping them all out as well, but what are you going to do to get rid of the helmet modeled on the captain's side? Just shave it down as cleanly as possible?

Not totally sure yet.

 

I'm going to have to look at it closer when I'm off work.

[thewarriorhunter]

if you come up with something let me know. it's in an odd spot. I'm wondering if I should just file it down and then add some grenades there to cover up any ugliness.

[robofish7591]

Some grenades, pouches, or maybe a pair auspex/binoculars could cover the gap pretty well?

[Nusquam]

Beakies for the win. The bit that has the helmet is a strap and sheathe so removing the helmet is pretty easy.

 

I've been playing with lists too. Have Lias(making the third version of him with the phobos Capt), Phobos Libby, Phobos LT, double Shadowspear contents, sniper scouts, and Twin Las mortis contemptor. Pretty excited to paint and play it.

[thewarriorhunter]

Regarding the captain I just clipped the helmet off, and the sword scabbard as well. Filed them up and I'm good. The sword will attach to the captain's leg without issue.

 

I started assembling my infiltrators last night. I'm going to have to buy some helmets because there are too many without them. And the guy with the hand on his comms set? WHY?!?!. Now I need a new arm and helmet.

[Claws and Effect]

Regarding the captain I just clipped the helmet off, and the sword scabbard as well. Filed them up and I'm good. The sword will attach to the captain's leg without issue.

 

I started assembling my infiltrators last night. I'm going to have to buy some helmets because there are too many without them. And the guy with the hand on his comms set? WHY?!?!. Now I need a new arm and helmet.

I'm actually good with the Infiltrators as they are. I just don't want more than 1 unit in those poses.

 

Considering getting a box of Reivers to convert into Infiltrators. Shouldn't be too difficult.

[thewarriorhunter]

 

Regarding the captain I just clipped the helmet off, and the sword scabbard as well. Filed them up and I'm good. The sword will attach to the captain's leg without issue.

 

I started assembling my infiltrators last night. I'm going to have to buy some helmets because there are too many without them. And the guy with the hand on his comms set? WHY?!?!. Now I need a new arm and helmet.

I'm actually good with the Infiltrators as they are. I just don't want more than 1 unit in those poses.

 

Considering getting a box of Reivers to convert into Infiltrators. Shouldn't be too difficult.

 

 

It's not that I dislike them, I just want all my models to have helmets. I can't fathom a space marine going into battle without one. All the super organs aside, if you take a piece of shrapnel to the eyes or a bullet to the head you're going to have a bad time...

[Nusquam]

I had spare Primaris helmets lying around and converted a lot of them. I left the aiming and almost-high ready as-is though.i bought 20 of Kromlechs Raven helms I'll be using for Suppressors and using the Suppressors helms for the LTs and future models.

[Dracos]

 

I'm actually good with the Infiltrators as they are. I just don't want more than 1 unit in those poses.

 

Considering getting a box of Reivers to convert into Infiltrators. Shouldn't be too difficult.

 

 

or wait for the Infiltrators box set to be released soon ish ?

[Claws and Effect]

 

 

I'm actually good with the Infiltrators as they are. I just don't want more than 1 unit in those poses.

 

Considering getting a box of Reivers to convert into Infiltrators. Shouldn't be too difficult.

 

or wait for the Infiltrators box set to be released soon ish ?

Might not have time. I have a "friendly" tournament coming up in June I want them ready for.

[ShinyRhino]

I've been thinking about the Phobos Librarian, Temporal Corridor, and Reivers.

 

Reivers with carbines are the only Phobos unit that could currently advance and fire. It'd be interesting to plop the Librarian in a forward position, have 10 Reivers arrive either by grav chute or grapples, and then be the target of the Cooridor. They'd then move and advance, and still get to fire their carbines at -1 to hit. Maybe slap Scryers Gaze on them for rerolls?

 

Only one Reiver needs to be within 3" odd the Librarian to use Temporal Corridor, so you could string them out on arrival, then bunch them closer as needed with the move+advance.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

I've been thinking about the Phobos Librarian, Temporal Corridor, and Reivers.

 

Reivers with carbines are the only Phobos unit that could currently advance and fire. It'd be interesting to plop the Librarian in a forward position, have 10 Reivers arrive either by grav chute or grapples, and then be the target of the Cooridor. They'd then move and advance, and still get to fire their carbines at -1 to hit. Maybe slap Scryers Gaze on them for rerolls?

 

Only one Reiver needs to be within 3" odd the Librarian to use Temporal Corridor, so you could string them out on arrival, then bunch them closer as needed with the move+advance.

 

It's a fun thought, but it comes back to the age old question: What do Reivers actually do?

 

1) Kill chaff/screens

 

or

 

2) Tie up more valuable units

 

If you work this combo into your list, just be mindful of their purpose, and you should get great results out of them.

[Panzer]

Considering the Carbines have 24" and they can deep strike ... do you really need to boost their movement like that? I mean it might be useful to get on some objective far away and unlike others they would still be able to do something afterwards, but that's the kind of thing that happens like every few games and isn't exactly a proper strategy so I'm not sure if it's worth taking that psychic power over others and taking Reivers to begin with.

[SyNidus]

Yup, Panzer has a valid point. On top of that, don't forget there is a FAQ regarding entering play and then moving again with warptime, which says you can't and it should apply to this as well.

[Claws and Effect]

Yup, Panzer has a valid point. On top of that, don't forget there is a FAQ regarding entering play and then moving again with warptime, which says you can't and it should apply to this as well.

However, it remains to be seen whether they get Concealed Positions when they are FAQ'd to officially have the Phobos keyword.

 

Could make things all kinds of interesting.

[MajorNese]

 

Yup, Panzer has a valid point. On top of that, don't forget there is a FAQ regarding entering play and then moving again with warptime, which says you can't and it should apply to this as well.

However, it remains to be seen whether they get Concealed Positions when they are FAQ'd to officially have the Phobos keyword.

 

Could make things all kinds of interesting.

Would be useful and fun in theory, but I doubt it. Why make the shiny new Infiltrators redundant by handing out their rules to existing models? Phobos keyword makes sense - concealed positions not so much. Also, reivers already got access to two different alternate deployment methods, one of which is identical to the phobos lieutenant. That guy didn't get CP either, but can now accompany the reivers, which I'd consider more than a coincidence.

[Panzer]

Yeah Reivers already have their two alternative deployment options. No way they'll get infiltration on top of it.

[Nusquam]

Reivers need something to make them worth taking though. Knife Fighter would be a start. They just don't kill enough of anything and fold to dedicated melee units. They weren't terrible at grabbing objectives in the mid field but now Infiltrators do that better thanks to deployment and objective secured. The Reivers only special things now are the shock grenades, which assumes they get close enough to use and now Suppressors do it better. And the fear aura, which is mitigated or ignored by every army in some manner. Reivers got worse post Vanguard wave.

[MajorNese]

The one thing reivers are great at is harassing backfield objective grabbers, and, if managing a charge roll, they will beat the typical objective campers by forcing them to compete in CC. Campers are usually (long)ranged, not shooting hurts them, and falling back just makes the reivers repeat the whole thing. In this scenario, knives may be more useful than the Infiltrators' bolters (work in opponent's round and protracted CC too), and deep striking means there will be some gaps to exploit turn 2, instead of infiltrating and maybe getting targeted by the enemy before even moving for the first time.

 

In Urban Conquest (we have a campaign running), there's a strat that switches out a single die of a charge roll for a 6, if the target is in terrain. Suddenly, CC chute reivers become brilliant by just picking a remote target and drowning it in dice, which neither Hard Cover nor Obscured can protect against.

 

Otherwise, these guys just stick around against non-multidamage units and are a pain in the rearward section. Even if they are not mopping up the field, they do a good job at distracting opponents. At +5ppm compared to jump assault marines, they are twice as resilient, have more attacks but lower movement and no special weapon options to waste points on. So far, I haven't feld handicapped when including a unit of 5, you just got to manage your expectations - they are not CC beatsticks by a long run.

[Nusquam]

They can get into the backfield so long as it's one of the wide deployments, otherwise it's really easy to screen them out. If you can get into the backfield then Inceptors are going to do a lot more damage via shooting, since it's possible to fail the 9" charge. They're a bit more expensive but can fall back and shoot, are T5, and have a higher move, while not being slouches in CC either. Plus the 18" range means that you can shoot things past screens if you want to fire into things like heavy weapons teams while retaining the -1 to get shot.

 

If it's Maelstrom or an ITC format then Infiltrators are still more valuable with being able to score midfield turn one. 

 

Reivers would be great if they were the only Primaris unit, but others can our perform them in every way.

 

Knife Fighter and Ap-1 knives would push them into actual threat category. But mechanically the fight phase is much worse if you can just shoot instead of risking a long charge and banking on optimal deployment and landing zone clearing.

[duz_]

How I wish Reivers had AP-1 blades

 

For back field objective grabbers and harassing units I think the Carbines are a better option

They can move and run and still shoot if necessary 

The close combat guys don't have as larger threat range and if they do engage in combat unless its something squishy and isolated they won't do much damage unfortunately :(

[Panzer]

Honestly, Reivers worked best for me as melee variant. However for them to work at all there are a few conditions that must be met.

1. They have to make the charge the turn they drop.
   1. That's crucial because when I drop them I need them right then and there, not a turn later.
   2. Without them charging something I'd be better off dropping Inceptors or now Suppressors. Yes I know Reivers bring more wounds for less points, but I'd rather have less enemies on the board who can target them in the first place, thank you very much.
2. They have to get on an objective. I usually only drop them somewhere when I need to get on an objective far away from my battleline.
   1. They aren't a good melee unit by any means and I can deal with squishy stuff with a number of other units if I just wanted to kill them. Their value is in grabbing objectives I otherwise can't reach (whether it's by regular movement or by deep striking on top of it).

If it's just about dropping a unit in the backfield without getting on a contested objective I'd rather take something more shooty (no, not Reivers with Carbines). It's a very niche role and by nature of the 9" charge it more often fails than not, and that's why Reivers aren't a great unit currently. Everything else is better done by other units we have available. They are basically less shooty and less mobile Assault Marines.

Sure Carbine Reivers could charge units on objectives too, but with only 2A per model, no ObSec and low model count they aren't exactly great at wrestling objectives from enemy units.

 

If the grapple would give them an easier time to make a charge and their blades had AP-1 so they could properly fight against a bigger range of targets it would help them a lot with their task.

Or, my favourite idea, if GW would give them a special rule that forces the enemy to make a successfull LD test to be able to fall back (which would synergize wonderfully with their LD debuff) they'd gain a new role as actual backfield harasser without increasing their damage output so they could do more than just trying to reach a contested objective.