duz_ Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Primaris Shrike? Corax?!! No mention of any of that unfortunately For now we will just have to discuss the new Primaris marines they announced last night I'm already looking for heretics to split the box with :ermm: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251769 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 Isn't the Primaris battlefield role marking not reliable to use as a translation to what battlefield role it occupies in a detachment? Example: When Aggressors dropped they were marked up as Heavy (even Blood Angel Aggressors have blue helmets of the Devastator Co), but they are as we all know elites. I don't understand the idea behind the desire to have Eliminators to be Heavy. Whats the best case scenario there? They all have a rifle to rival the Vindicare, cost 30PPM, and you still never take them, as for that role, points to damage, they wont suffice. I guess I am of course basing this on one big assumption: Rate of Fire. Almost all Sniper weapons in-universe are represented by 1-shot per model. In a world where the Heavy slot can deal out a LOT of potential damage, I just don't see a 1-shot per model unit ever being able to compete. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I hope the sniper rifles are at least on par with what we saw with GSC if not considerably better! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251780 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I'm already looking for heretics to split the box with Man, this. I *still* have my DG from DI though ... and that does not spark joy at all anymore. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 Honestly just gotta get in the habit of using /r/miniswap or eBay right when release drops. They sell/trade quickly, and often its not hard to trade/sell up/over 50%. This release especially given how deprived the C:SM Undivided players have been for so long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I hope to find a Chaos player at one of the LGS will do a straight swap with. I want double of just about everything new I've seen. Just hoping the nearest GW store lets me swap about the Reivers apparently two friends thought I needed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Already found two local chaos players to split a box with. This will be fun... Yep, that works for me. Thought of starting a Brotherhood of Nod GSC army Yeah, I had around 4k of Nod IG in 5th edition, with A LOT of conversions. Wrecked pretty much everything by playing every option for mobile, outflanking, scouting or deep striking guard - no one was expecting it. With 6th, all of these options were removed, and guard became a static gunline, which is why I quit them and started sneaky marines (Alphas). Now GSC does the same as my dudes back in the day, just right. Nod buggies and motorcycles now don't need conversions, just different helmets. It's heavily tempting, but giving me more stuff to do for Raptors does scratch that itch enough to not revive that project immediately... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5251980 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Isn't the Primaris battlefield role marking not reliable to use as a translation to what battlefield role it occupies in a detachment? Example: When Aggressors dropped they were marked up as Heavy (even Blood Angel Aggressors have blue helmets of the Devastator Co), but they are as we all know elites. I don't understand the idea behind the desire to have Eliminators to be Heavy. Whats the best case scenario there? They all have a rifle to rival the Vindicare, cost 30PPM, and you still never take them, as for that role, points to damage, they wont suffice. I guess I am of course basing this on one big assumption: Rate of Fire. Almost all Sniper weapons in-universe are represented by 1-shot per model. In a world where the Heavy slot can deal out a LOT of potential damage, I just don't see a 1-shot per model unit ever being able to compete. You're right. That's because the Codex Astartes battlefield roles only loosely translate to the FOC roles. Not sure why your best case scenario equals a worst case scenario, but the best case scenario would obviously be to have a Sniper unit worth getting called such, with some real quality shots instead of mass of Bolter shots hoping on 6s, that leaves the Troop slots to the actual Troop units. Also to have something else to fill a Brigade or Spearhead detachment aside of tanks, Devastators and Hellblasters. Also what would the alternatives be? Troops? Sniper aren't Troops. Sniper are a highly specialised niche unit. Elite? That's already our dump FOC role and is way too overcrowded. Fast Attack? Maybe, though I think that one fits better for a unit that actually wants to go ahead of the rest of the army and/or convinces with its mobility. About your big assumption. It's really a big one. Lascannons are a 1-shot per model unit as well. However Sniper are a niche unit. They are all about taking out characters. Something a Lascannon just can't do without obliterating everything inbetween as well regardless of how much damage you roll with it. That's how they are going to be able to compete with other Heavy Support options (not that they actually have to compete considering how easily you can get more HS slots anyway). Just as Lascannons have their ideal target in vehicles and such against infantry and Heavy Bolter have their ideal target in infantry and suck against vehicles, Sniper have their ideal target in characters and aren't all the hype against other targets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5252222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Wouldn't be bananas if Eliminators were both HS and Elite? Then everyone wins! Except characters, man forget those guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5252312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Isn't the Primaris battlefield role marking not reliable to use as a translation to what battlefield role it occupies in a detachment? Example: When Aggressors dropped they were marked up as Heavy (even Blood Angel Aggressors have blue helmets of the Devastator Co), but they are as we all know elites. I don't understand the idea behind the desire to have Eliminators to be Heavy. Whats the best case scenario there? They all have a rifle to rival the Vindicare, cost 30PPM, and you still never take them, as for that role, points to damage, they wont suffice. I guess I am of course basing this on one big assumption: Rate of Fire. Almost all Sniper weapons in-universe are represented by 1-shot per model. In a world where the Heavy slot can deal out a LOT of potential damage, I just don't see a 1-shot per model unit ever being able to compete. You're right. That's because the Codex Astartes battlefield roles only loosely translate to the FOC roles. Not sure why your best case scenario equals a worst case scenario, but the best case scenario would obviously be to have a Sniper unit worth getting called such, with some real quality shots instead of mass of Bolter shots hoping on 6s, that leaves the Troop slots to the actual Troop units. Also to have something else to fill a Brigade or Spearhead detachment aside of tanks, Devastators and Hellblasters. Also what would the alternatives be? Troops? Sniper aren't Troops. Sniper are a highly specialised niche unit. Elite? That's already our dump FOC role and is way too overcrowded. Fast Attack? Maybe, though I think that one fits better for a unit that actually wants to go ahead of the rest of the army and/or convinces with its mobility. About your big assumption. It's really a big one. Lascannons are a 1-shot per model unit as well. However Sniper are a niche unit. They are all about taking out characters. Something a Lascannon just can't do without obliterating everything inbetween as well regardless of how much damage you roll with it. That's how they are going to be able to compete with other Heavy Support options (not that they actually have to compete considering how easily you can get more HS slots anyway). Just as Lascannons have their ideal target in vehicles and such against infantry and Heavy Bolter have their ideal target in infantry and suck against vehicles, Sniper have their ideal target in characters and aren't all the hype against other targets. Good points all around! I guess I see/get excite for Eliminators as troops for 2 reasons 1) Scouts with snipers are troops now, and Eliminators are the "Primaris'd up" version of that, and 2) They pictured the unit as 3 models, and the first thought I had was "Wow, what if the min unit was 3 models, and they were around 18-20ppm, and close in total-cost to a 5-Man Bolter Scout unit?" - If that was the case, I could see an army where all troops choices are filled by Eliminators, and that gets me moderately erect. After reading your thoughts about their role and possible damage output, wouldn't it be cool if they had some sort of haywire-shell that did mortal wounds to Vehicle types? Further more, if they did more than just hunt characters, but also Monsters (in addition to vehicles), I could see that being a great fit for the Heavy Support slot. When I view them as anti-personnel, its hard for me to envision them as Heavy Support (I view that slot in my head-cannon as big guns fighting big guns). I agree with you on both the Fast Attack and Elite (ugh) spots. There's also a part of me that see's the design influence of the weapon as a DMR-style rifle, and in that regard I immediately think they might get 2-3 shots per model/turn, but I know thats probably a vain/silly hope (at least expecting that correlation to be true). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5252518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 May have just ordered some Mor Deythan for counts as Eliminators :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5252537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 One thing I saw mentioned in the main thread that I haven't seen in this one: Those eliminators appear to be on 40mm bases. I think that takes them out of the troop choice slot and puts them in heavy/elite. As for what we've seen so far I'm over the moon about this release. I commented in my WIP thread that these guys are EXACTLY what I want in my army. Their look matches the background/lore/direction of my custom chapter so perfectly. My biggest concern right now is how I'm going to paint up the camo cloaks. I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in the box. I'm not sure if I'll pick them up at release or have to wait. I'm trying to get through a backlog of stuff right now and really don't want to add to my pile of shame, especially when I think these models will eventually be available separately. I think seeing what else is in the box will help me decide... that and selling a copy of Silver Tower I have that I no longer need. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Yeah, painting the camo cloaks is something I'll have to do properly by the time these guys get released. I'm looking forward to seeing what else is in the box. I'm not sure if I'll pick them up at release or have to wait. I'm trying to get through a backlog of stuff right now and really don't want to add to my pile of shame, especially when I think these models will eventually be available separately. I think seeing what else is in the box will help me decide... Well, if the box stays at the usual Forgebane price and using a non-GW store discount, I'll get the primaris part of two boxes for 100€. Doesn't matter much what else is in that box besides what is already shown in artwork/model, that'll work for me. Otherwise, pretty much everyone wants those eliminators, and those are hands down the best Raptors guys one could find... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Sometimes I wish I was across the pond. It's ~125(pound sybmol) here for a box after converting USD to Pound. That's why I'm saying I'll need to see what's in the box if I want to commit $85USD to picking up half of the box. If the contents looks appealing enough for me to go for it I'll find someone local to split with so I an support the store I've been playing at, otherwise I'll pick up the Primaris half of ebay, or wait. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 It shouldn't be that bad, should it? Wake the Dead/Tooth and Claw were $150 USD, thats $127.50 after the standard 15%. Or $63.75 for half. That half will more than likely be close to $100 USD MSRP in minis if past sets are anything to go by. (Wake the Dead for example was $155 MSRP in Primaris stuff for that half). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Well, if I split at the store I play at it's full MSRP because they don't give a discount, in fact as far as I know none of the local stores provide a discount for GW, you have to go online for that. I hate not buying online to get the 15% off but I want to support the store that lets me play for free. If I end up waiting and picking up the primaris half online then I'll probably get the discount but... I figure the premium I pay at the store can be considered my 'rental' fee for the tables. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I agree TWH I try and support locally where I can I use to buy a lot at the local GW because I liked the manager and used their tables a lot Now there is a new manager who hasn't even tried for my business and I don't use their tables as much so I don't feel so bad getting the best bang for my buck Although I don't think anyone would begrudge you saving the odd dollar here and there especially on the larger itemsI'm surprised sunny Arizona doesn't do a discount, or at the very least a store loyalty discount... But we digress!Apparently my Mor Deythan are showing up tomorrow! :DI thought it was going to be a bit longer because it shipped with my Caladius which they said was 10 day lead time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoldenThrone Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 My opinion: these are the Primaris models that will replace the current Scout models. Will they also be Troops, like the current Scouts? Don't know. Will further Scout models be produced that aren't Primaris? Almost certainly not. The inexorable march of Primaris moves forward one more step. Personally, I am happy about it. And I can't wait for that new box! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Well, if I split at the store I play at it's full MSRP because they don't give a discount, in fact as far as I know none of the local stores provide a discount for GW, you have to go online for that. I hate not buying online to get the 15% off but I want to support the store that lets me play for free. If I end up waiting and picking up the primaris half online then I'll probably get the discount but... I figure the premium I pay at the store can be considered my 'rental' fee for the tables. And I havent seen a battle box set yet that you dont get a steep built in discount if you compared to buying same models in separate boxes. Finding the Heretical Brother to split with is the real issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Well, if I split at the store I play at it's full MSRP because they don't give a discount, in fact as far as I know none of the local stores provide a discount for GW, you have to go online for that. I hate not buying online to get the 15% off but I want to support the store that lets me play for free. If I end up waiting and picking up the primaris half online then I'll probably get the discount but... I figure the premium I pay at the store can be considered my 'rental' fee for the tables. I agree - when you're playing at a store, you buy there. In my case it's split - one box will go to the local GW without discount, and split there. The other box is from a friend elsewhere, who has a free store with 20% discount, which is currently expanding to a brick-and-mortar store with lots of gaming area. So both are well supportable. Anyway, the boxed sets already have quite a discount. For the last battleforces, primaris were at nearly 50% discount, more than any other army. It seems, intercessors and reivers don't sell as good as they should. Not surprising with the amount of pushfits GW offers. So I do guess this box will be a lot cheaper than the separate contents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254704 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyNidus Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 These bad boys are making it harder for me not to come back to the Raven Guard. That librarian is also absolutely badass. I hope they sort out the mobility issues because I don't see a jump pack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Not many people use JP unless it's on a leader lately. And from my PoV that's because of Primaris. Not meaning to sound whiney, it's just an observation. Dracos nailed it about finding the heretic to split with. Otherwise, these boxed sets really are the deal to get more Primaris on the cheap. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Speaking of JPs I hope Primaris get some type of FLY option for HQs. Inceptors are a thing but they are very limited in their role and very expensive, I'd love to see FLY given to more than just them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Speaking of JPs I hope Primaris get some type of FLY option for HQs. Inceptors are a thing but they are very limited in their role and very expensive, I'd love to see FLY given to more than just them. Exactly. HQs with actual variety (sword/axe/fist/hammer, combi weapons, pistols, jump pack) would help a lot, considering the very limited way of equipping and moving captains. And unless there's some JP options in the new box, I'll slap some jump packs and chainswords on my next reivers. Still count as grav chutes, but look a lot better... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5254988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 These bad boys are making it harder for me not to come back to the Raven Guard. That librarian is also absolutely badass. I hope they sort out the mobility issues because I don't see a jump pack. I was watching a Blood Angel Battle Report with a Libarian this morning. As they deployed I was picturing my Primaris Librarian (with the infiltrate rule) tucked in with my Vanguard Reivers (in the place of the Scouts) I got this cold cozy shadowy feeling of Corax looking over his children ... it was glorious (and the thought of a buffed infiltrating Lt didn't hurt either) There is no way GW doesnt understand the plight of the flagship and I believe the new Primaris are another step (Bolter Discipline) toward a more competitive Codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/2/#findComment-5255044 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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