TheGoldenThrone Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 There is no way GW doesnt understand the plight of the flagship and I believe the new Primaris are another step (Bolter Discipline) toward a more competitive Codex I hope you are right! With more mobility (coming soon?) and transport options (please?), Primaris could become a potent choice. To hope further, tt would be great to be a top tier army for a change. Has that ever happened for Space Marines? My history doesn't go back very far -- I started playing in 7th, when they were middle of the pack. How long has it been since Marines were a force to be feared? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 There is no way GW doesnt understand the plight of the flagship and I believe the new Primaris are another step (Bolter Discipline) toward a more competitive Codex I've said this elsewhere but I firmly believe we're going to eventually see codex:primaris. codex:oldmarines is going to be given the index treatment. It'll be there, and you can use it, but you won't be getting any new toys. All the new stuff is going to be for Primaris marines only. I'm not sure exactly how it's going to play out, and how the non-codex chapters like SW, BA, and DA are going to work within this new book but I have no doubt that's the future that we're going to see. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255216 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 There is no way GW doesnt understand the plight of the flagship and I believe the new Primaris are another step (Bolter Discipline) toward a more competitive Codex I hope you are right! With more mobility (coming soon?) and transport options (please?), Primaris could become a potent choice. To hope further, tt would be great to be a top tier army for a change. Has that ever happened for Space Marines? My history doesn't go back very far -- I started playing in 7th, when they were middle of the pack. How long has it been since Marines were a force to be feared? Marines were good at the beginning of 8th - when they had chapter tactics and loads of stratagems, while others were still index only. Since then, every non-marine army had chapter tactics apply to all units, and additional rules like shoot-twice on main battle tanks to outshine the baseline that marines became. Primaris are nice - the units are solid, but mobility and flexibility are the core issues. Only one transport in the form of a confused main battle tank with spare space, everything besides inceptors has to footslogg. Next to no options for sergeants, HQs, and very limited variety of wargear. I hope GW will change that, but with their current trend to make monopose characters without alternate weapons, I don't see it coming. The generic primaris captain for example can't have a regular boltrifle, because the little magazine-and-scope bit is on the intercessors sprue (which everyone has tons of). Intercessor/reiver sergeants can't have a plasma pistol, because it's on the hellblaster sprue. Hellblaster/reiver sergeants can't have a power sword, because it's on the intercessors sprue. And the generic captain can only switch for plasma pistol/powerfist because there's this really rare store anniversary model, not because everyone has tons of them in the bitzbox. This is just ridiculous... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 @TWH - maybe. There are A LOT of toys for the OldMarines to use (using the Rhino chassis alone). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255282 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 @TWH - maybe. There are A LOT of toys for the OldMarines to use (using the Rhino chassis alone). I don't deny that, and that's why I think it will get the Index treatment and still be available. In the very first VoxCast 40k podcast Jes Goodwin states that the initial DI release of primaris was only the tip of the iceberg. Seeing the Vanguard box set, the similarities the release schedule appears to be having with what we saw in AoS and the chambers, and his statement make me think we've got a lot to look forward to with Primaris and I don't see them supporting both lines. (podcast video, you can also do audio only on your podcast platform of choice) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Maaaaybe. That's a strong case for eventuality. I think I'm looking at the SoB as a model (so to speak). They've been getting the Index treatment for years and, I believe) part of that is because their model range is limited (for whatever reason). The OldMarines don't have that issue. At all. So, my reasoning strays away from the possibility of them getting Index'd within … 5 years? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 ? Hope not. At the earliest in my own opinion, maybe more like 10 from the introduction of Primaris. I can’t see it happening until they’ve fleshed out the Primaris line enough that those of us from the days of 2nd edition can play our OldMarines as Primarized Marines. I firmly believe they want what is best for the hobby and while it will require some pruning of the old line (vehicles have me worried the most) I believe there intent is in the long run to allow the old guard to still play. After theyve brought all the newbies and old guard they can get (such as me) invested into the Primaris line. Two cents. PS: Marines have hardly ever been more than middle of the road. I played 2nd through early 5th and always think of 3rd as being the golden age. I won some local tournament but would go 2-3 in a Games Day event (Chicago twice). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 My honest opinion? I don't think GW even knows yet. I expect they will let the market dictate their choice as to which lines they continue. Vote with your wallet and all that jazz. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 My honest opinion? I don't think GW even knows yet. I expect they will let the market dictate their choice as to which lines they continue. Vote with your wallet and all that jazz. Maybe. Back in the early Auts when I was an Outrider, I went to GW HQ and they showed us timetable plans up to two years. The stuff within 6 months was done and sitting around warehouses. Unless GW has gotten a little frisky with their product planning, and if my experience is status quo almost 20 years later, then I'd wager GW knows exactly what they are doing. So, I like the idea of OldMarines getting Indexed in the far future so I will build the rest of my unbuilt collection :P Yet, I'm feeling convinced to get into Primaris with both feet because ... the Jones'. To be sure, I agree the market is sure to move things around. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255800 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I'm pretty sure GW has a gameplan for the next few years. With some room to shuffle things around but most of it being set in stone. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255802 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 Totally agree on the timeline. I meant more I expect the market to dictate long term the fate of the oldmarines (3+ years) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255818 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 You know, one of the things that settled me on building my Warhawks as Raven Guard wasn’t just some good Chapter Tactics and Stratagems (though the day Issadon get Primarisized it’ll be Raptor rules ;)) isn’t just the more modern tactical “feel” of how the army fights. It’s the members of this sub-forum are positive and adaptive thinkers who don’t waste much time bemoaning rule changes or the plight of Astartes overall. Generally the members even those who pop in and out of this sub-forum are problem solving thinkers who take lemons and look for a way to squirt them in the eyes of the Heretic ;) Just wanted to let you guys know it’s appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255827 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I completely agree. I wasn't happy about the nerf to SFTS but it doens't do much good to whine about it. Better to figure out how to use it to our benefit. I do the same thing at my job everyday, solve problems. I like to consider myself a 'fixer' of sorts. Put me in a room with a problem and I'll come out of the room with some ideas and workable solutions. Circling back around to the topic of the vanguard I will whine and say that the lack of more info and pictures is driving me mad. I really want some news but I think this week is going to be chaos focused with the daemon rumor engine... :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 I completely agree. I wasn't happy about the nerf to SFTS but it doens't do much good to whine about it. Better to figure out how to use it to our benefit. I do the same thing at my job everyday, solve problems. I like to consider myself a 'fixer' of sorts. Put me in a room with a problem and I'll come out of the room with some ideas and workable solutions. Circling back around to the topic of the vanguard I will whine and say that the lack of more info and pictures is driving me mad. I really want some news but I think this week is going to be chaos focused with the daemon rumor engine... Gief Eliminator Rules ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 Lol I know right. I’m itching to know the rules for these Vanguard Reivers. I have a couple boxes of Reivers I was going to convert to Scouts and have a powerful NEED TO KNOW if I’ll be able to use/convert them into the Infiltrating Troop choice I always pictured them as. The only real issue I see is the backpack and I was thinking the GK have a backpack that might work as a conversion if needed. The I’ll get 10 Eliminatorls (eventually I’ll call them snipers) just because . . . but the Librarian (x2 I’m thinking) is likely to change my whole game plan and thoughts on Warhawk command structure fluff. I’ve planned every list 1k+ list with at least 1 if not 2 Shadow Captains that I set aside 4 CP designed to SftS with Hellblasters and or Aggressors. That might change (or not) now that there are (could be) a Primaris HQ and unit/s that don't require CP. Honestly I see huge changes for Primaris all depending on points and rules (that I NEED now). .... and the hope beyond hope that Primaris are actually getting the light fast transport (Whispercutter) that is rumored. Not holding my breath on that though. It just would seem to good to be true. GreyCrow; We got tactics and numbers to run pretty soon buddy. I’m hoping to get enough done by April or May to start participating in some Midwest tournaments with Primaris only (and my Xiphons of course might have to pick up a third for a full Airwing) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5255862 Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Angel Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 It was pointed out elsewhere but I didn't see it mentioned here, the eliminators appear to have the heavy support symbol on their knee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Pretty sure the "flying devastators" have a macro accelerator rifle, the thing the astreaus is armed with Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Pretty sure the "flying devastators" have a macro accelerator rifle, the thing the astreaus is armed with Looks more to me like the autocannon on a Helverin to me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257331 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 This is cool. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but here are my observations from the video: Eliminators are a 3 man unit base since we only see 3 in the drawing We get some type of unit that can FLY More heavy weapon options given the overcompensation cannon the guy is holding. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 I don't think they will be able to FLY, as the customary Inceptor pack is missing. I think it more likely an advanced form of Gravis (Devastator Pattern). My guess is the Grav-chute aspect allows Deepstrike and perhaps (fingers crossed) they do not suffer the penalties for moving/shooting heavy weapons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Except in the top left of the frame, one appears to be airborne/hovering in place. To me, the image doesn't evoke a sense of free-fall. Could be wrong, of course. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 He looks similar to the guy in the fore ground who has the same kinda grav chute tabs as Reivers? Deep striking primaris devastator squad ... muahahah! :teehee: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I had the same thoughts. It looks like they're both in the air and hovering but they don't have the larger jump packs that inceptors have. I'm still hoping for FLY, but deep striking heavy weapons sounds awesome as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Also Interesting they included a Librarian Coven next to the building on the hill. I’m not sure I’m digging the cannon? Primaris aren’t exactly lacking dakka? Although admitted grav-chutting a heavy weapon in place is tasty. Just preferring plasma of some sort I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Its nice to see something other than Plasma that's for sure! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/3/#findComment-5257917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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