Dracos Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Would 48″ range, Heavy 2, Strength 8, AP-2, 2 Damage be too much to ask for? Trying to extrapolate a Cawl version of the auto cannon? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5257975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Also Interesting they included a Librarian Coven next to the building on the hill. I’m not sure I’m digging the cannon? Primaris aren’t exactly lacking dakka? Although admitted grav-chutting a heavy weapon in place is tasty. Just preferring plasma of some sort I think. Well you have Plasma Inceptors for that. :P Though I'm interested to see how they can compete with those to be fair. Would 48″ range, Heavy 2, Strength 8, AP-2, 2 Damage be too much to ask for? Trying to extrapolate a Cawl version of the auto cannon? Yeah I think so. If we look at the Primaris weapons and the changes Cawl made to them then we see there are only small changes. Plasma and Bolter only got better AP and better range (going with the default version, not with the specialised Heavy and Assault version as those didn't exist before). So with that pattern if it's actually an Autocannon I'd rather expect something like 48" Heavy2 S7 AP-2 D1 or possibly AP-1 D2 like the Predator autocannon just infantry mounted. Maybe a mix of both and it's AP-2 D2. I don't think the range will get an increase as they already are drop infantry that can land anywhere so range is much less of a concern as it is for other heavy weapon squads and 48" is already plenty. I could even see a nerf to 36" instead. However I think it's rather unlikely that we'll see a buff to range, strength, AP and damage all at the same time. Also I think at 48" Heavy2 S8 AP-2 D2 they'd pretty much replace Plasma for the most part which would be a dumb design decision. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I agree with Duz_..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Meh. For now I see GW looking at competition and making sure their models fit within the milieu. The flying cannon dude kinda gives a mecha vibe for me and I'm interestingly ok with that. As for story, Primaris, as a whole, is a problem within 30 years of relatively stagnant history. Ironically, in-story the Imperium itself has been stalemated, if not basically, overrun for 10,000 years. At this point, I'm beginning to not care about the current story. The older stuff was "great". The game and environment seems more fun that way in my head. Or maybe I need more coffee. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258178 Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hrmmm sounds like heresy ... where's the Chaplain? <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAR Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 In the reclusium..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Having coffee with me :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258197 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I'm new(ish) to the hobby but regarding lore it seems like the clock was stuck where it was pretty much since 40k was invented. Then with 8th they finally moved things forward a couple hundred years and added some stuff that could 'realistically' happen in that time frame. For someone who's been in it since Rouge Trader/2nd I can understand being miffed, but from my perspective if seems like the lore and background have just advanced slightly. By moving the clock forward a couple hundred years they've given themselves a lot of creative space to work on adding new things. What I find interesting is that now one was upset when new Death Guard models and new units for that army came out. I don't hear anyone complaining that Chaos is getting revamped. I realize those are fringe cases and it's not exactly the same as primaris but it's still new stuff. I know a guy who's entire Death Guard army from FW is unplayable now because of the rules changes to them. I get that change is hard, and Primaris came (almost) but it's not that different from what we're seeing done with other factions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Also, there is a difference, sort of, between the story and models: for my part, I dig Primaris visually, yet perceive the story is lacking. But man, if you asked me what I would do differently ... I couldn't do better. Back to models, Primaris are still "new" so they are getting fleshed out slowly enough to give consumers a chance to get used to the new normal. Aaaaand these Vanguards *are* a cool addition to a line that has become flat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258218 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Yeah, the main problem of primaris was and still is that they and everyone involved just appeared in the fluff without any buildup. If GW were to say "this is the new truescale marine range", it would have been good. But considering everyone had pretty much every marine model around for years, they needed new stuff to sell with their flagship, and that doesn't work on a collector's scale, just a player's scale. Marines were stagnating (except for a few weapons/vehicles) for a longer time. New developments like centurions weren't exactly received well in the community, making it even harder to add something new besides revamps of old units (tacs, stern/vanguard, assault/dev squad) and vehicles. Now people are on the fence since it's a new development (=bad) and the fluff feels just hastily retconned. But I guess in a few years, when the range is fleshed out and the fluff is a bit more settled, everyone will be used to primaris anyway... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258228 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Yeah, the main problem of primaris was and still is that they and everyone involved just appeared in the fluff without any buildup. If GW were to say "this is the new truescale marine range", it would have been good. But considering everyone had pretty much every marine model around for years, they needed new stuff to sell with their flagship, and that doesn't work on a collector's scale, just a player's scale. That's doubtful. I remember that there were huge arguments about whether people would prefer a new unit or a re-scaling of the existing units when it was still just a blurry leak. I'd wager people would've complained just the same if it were just a re-scaling but instead of blaming the poorly written story they'd be blaming GW making their expensive collection irrelevant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Likely. Instead, we have whining about poor story AND a conspiracy that their expensive collection will become irrelevant :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Anyway, GW won't stop even if it invalidates oldmarines over the next years - they live off sales after all, and at least the models are moving in a more technically feasible direction. I'll see where it goes, and so far at least most models turned out good, even if some modifications are useful. Especially the eliminators are just perfect, no comparison to the old sniper scouts. Whining in general won't stop anyway - we still have people at the store whining about the missing Black Templar codex (even if it was missing lots of units in 5th already), people who dislike flyers, people who refuse to switch to 8th edition, people who dislike 7th edition because of formations while refusing to switch to 8th at the same time, and even some complaining about terminators not being on 25mm bases any more (hard to deep strike, invalidates the 3rd edition bases). In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only complaints. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Whining in general won't stop anyway - we still have people at the store whining about the missing Black Templar codex (even if it was missing lots of units in 5th already), people who dislike flyers, people who refuse to switch to 8th edition, people who dislike 7th edition because of formations while refusing to switch to 8th at the same time, and even some complaining about terminators not being on 25mm bases any more (hard to deep strike, invalidates the 3rd edition bases). In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only complaints. I do not envy your playgroup. Sadly there will always be people who complain like this, like you said. I think the only cure is either a community organizer/store trying to engage them to keep them active in the hobby, or the company itself finding new ways to engage them (products, news, lore, etc). Sadly both of those can be lacking in this hobby - although it is getting better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Quixote Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Late to the party on this one but my thoughts on the snipers have surprised me - probably the only primaris models so far I actually am thinking of buying! I like the librarian's pose, but am I the only one who is distracted by the weird camo cloak things going on? I can't stop looking at the camo hood that's UNDER the prychic hood which is bright blue. The straps above his knees bug me too, I get they're to keep them over his legs when he kneels (maybe), but they're catching on the kneepads for sure when he stands back up. I'm fairly certain putting a cloak over the backpack's upper vents/intakes? invalidates their warranty too. I'm going to have a nice cup of tea to calm down now before I get started on the ridiculously big spindly gun and jump packs? pictured in the artwork. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Late to the party on this one but my thoughts on the snipers have surprised me - probably the only primaris models so far I actually am thinking of buying! I like the librarian's pose, but am I the only one who is distracted by the weird camo cloak things going on? I can't stop looking at the camo hood that's UNDER the prychic hood which is bright blue. The straps above his knees bug me too, I get they're to keep them over his legs when he kneels (maybe), but they're catching on the kneepads for sure when he stands back up. I'm fairly certain putting a cloak over the backpack's upper vents/intakes? invalidates their warranty too. I'm going to have a nice cup of tea to calm down now before I get started on the ridiculously big spindly gun and jump packs? pictured in the artwork. The camo hood being under the psychic hood is probably for sake of head swapping. Still valid complain though. The bright blue, the yellow of the cables and the loose keys will ruin any chance of being sneaky he might would have had otherwise. That goes for other parts of his armour as well though. Let's just say he's using psychic powers to support his camo cloaks effect so it's not as dumb as it looks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258933 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 Late to the party on this one but my thoughts on the snipers have surprised me - probably the only primaris models so far I actually am thinking of buying! I like the librarian's pose, but am I the only one who is distracted by the weird camo cloak things going on? I can't stop looking at the camo hood that's UNDER the prychic hood which is bright blue. The straps above his knees bug me too, I get they're to keep them over his legs when he kneels (maybe), but they're catching on the kneepads for sure when he stands back up. I'm fairly certain putting a cloak over the backpack's upper vents/intakes? invalidates their warranty too. I'm going to have a nice cup of tea to calm down now before I get started on the ridiculously big spindly gun and jump packs? pictured in the artwork. I get a lot of these points, and many are valid, but here are a few counter points from a long time (hobbyist) hunter: 1) Camouflage isn't about making you appear like your surroundings, entirely. A big portion of the function is about breaking up your silhouette. The human brain picks out things from their surroundings by identifying what is familiar about them (lines, patterns, certain shapes). These overcoat/cloak/dusters they are wearing are doing just that. The pattern on the camo is angular/irregular shades of grey, to match into a city fighting scenario, and attempt to mimic those designs. 2) Regarding the Psychic Hood (and its corresponding power-cables), this is clearly an aesthetic choice (form over function). Pros: It allows the hobbyist to clearly identify the model as a librarian from a distance, as the hood is iconic among marine psykers. It also does not really go against the silhouette principal either, as neither impacts their outline. Cons: It makes more of the non-environmental color visible to be spotted (at least for those species that see color the way we do). While its a small sacrifice, I think it was a smart one. 3) Regarding thigh straps: I believe you have part of this envisioned correctly, but not all. If you look at the Eliminator models, they have similar thigh-straps, which appear to be a means to quick-mount gear and secure articles so they dont click/clank against their ceramite. I believe what we are seeing on the librarian model is those some thigh straps coming out and over the duster to A) Keep it secured in place so as to not tangle, nor be a tripping hazard, and 2) Allow him the same functional, in terms of strapping/securing articles for ease of access. There are also similar buckles visible along the hem of the duster and the hood on the eliminator variant, again to secure it in place, I suspect. Lastly, in regards to the camo-wrap on the backpack, I suspect the cloth itself must have some sound/heat dampening qualities, to further augment the capabilities of Mark X Phobos armor. While its supposed to have greater range of motion and near-quiet servos, I suspect the power plant still emits a low hum (as the fluff constantly reminds us), and I also suspect it puts off heat. This cloth may assist with diffusing that, should the quarry have infrared vision, this may lead to breaking up their heat-based signature/silhouette. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5258949 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Quixote Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Some nice explainations there! I tend to just not be able to look away from things that look odd to me sometimes. I should remeber my other mantra: It'll all look better as raven guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Whining in general won't stop anyway - we still have people at the store whining about the missing Black Templar codex (even if it was missing lots of units in 5th already), people who dislike flyers, people who refuse to switch to 8th edition, people who dislike 7th edition because of formations while refusing to switch to 8th at the same time, and even some complaining about terminators not being on 25mm bases any more (hard to deep strike, invalidates the 3rd edition bases). In the grim darkness of the near future, there is only complaints. I do not envy your playgroup. Sadly there will always be people who complain like this, like you said. I think the only cure is either a community organizer/store trying to engage them to keep them active in the hobby, or the company itself finding new ways to engage them (products, news, lore, etc). Sadly both of those can be lacking in this hobby - although it is getting better. Thankfully, they are the minority, even if a very loud one, comparable to what is happening online. >90% of the players are okay with marines getting new stuff, and the few complaining guys are always complaining about whatever comes to mind, so no one pays them any attention. Those are indeed lost causes, both from a gaming perspective (edition change, powergaming, hard modelling for advantage and permanent complaining ingame) and from sales perspective (refused to buy anything for several editions, prefer cheap 3rd party stuff like Abrahams tanks for IG/Tau/Astartes). And yes, everything looks better as Raptors. No one likes the Blue Man Group, and for supposedly sneaky guys it just doesn't fit at all. A few modifications here or there, some green paint, and those will work well enough. Most local players include primaris nowadays and convert them for their chapter of choice, only very few purists remain with 100% oldmarines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259147 Share on other sites More sharing options...
longjohnsilver Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 The grav chute drop devastators and the snipers look awesome. It's interesting that the Vanguard are getting their own characters; I want to see the Vanguard Chaplain and apothecary because those are always very busy models and it'll be good to see how they handle the camouflaged look. @TWH - I have a fair bit of the new DG stuff and my opponent plays Chaos for 7th. Don't know about the FW units but as far as I know all the old stuff works as is, but in some cases bikers, obliterators and havocs will have to be used in a Heretic Astartes detachment with the Mark of Nurgle. Scale creep isn't too bad. There was a W/H world display board featuring DG vs Dark Angels, and the DG were a mix of new Nurgle units and Mk 3 armour and they didn't look too bad all together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259238 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 And yes, everything looks better as Raven Guard. FTFY :lol: Seriously though, it's true ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracos Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 clikity-clak ... opps, didn't velco the keys down ;) Have to admit I'm not a fan of the long long long gun on the deep striking Primaris heavy. On the other hand I wasn't a big fan of gorilla-mitts either and now (especially with the conversion) he's a favorite. I'd rather have preferred to seen that autocannon on an Inceptor but no one asked me . . . . maybe I can figure some kind of shoulder mount for the big Gun. Yeah like my old Shadowhawk ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 It does look wonky but I'll hold judgement until I see the model. Honestly my first thought about that as a model was 'storage and transportation is going to suck'. Might have to cut the barrel off somehow to magnetize it for transporting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5259839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanhgg Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I’m veeeery interested in the snipers. I’ve nothing to say against these new models. I know many complaining about the sci-fi-ification of the range but I’m not. Changes will come, and things that don’t change either and die. So I feel this is a great thing for the 40k-hobby overall; the gamesystem evolves Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5262430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 It’s great times being a marine-player. I don’t care if a loose 75% if all games, my miniatures look cool doing it Frankly, that's all there is to my 40K gaming. :wub: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/353700-primaris-vanguard/page/4/#findComment-5262440 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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