MajorNese Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Restricting it to Phobos armour makes sense - first of all, it's designed to be mobile and silent, second it would be rather hardcore if these powers could be used for primaris powerhorses. Untargetable hellblasters, uber advancing aggressors, that would pretty much make no gaming sense (except for Pay to Win) and make the other vanguards largely redundant. This way, the sneaky guys get to be sneaky and that's it. Reminds me of 7th edition - one force multiplier got out in any imperial faction, and would create insanely broken combos by attaching it to a unit it was never intended to go with. Glad they restrict it here to the light units - it might even give reivers new life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Reivers dont have the Phobos keyword :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumah Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Not yet, at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 They've updated datasheets before, they could update them again, or erata that into the codex with a small update. I must say I was waffling on this but I'm strongly leaning towards splitting with a guy at the store. I'll be talking to him tonight. I'm excited to have a psyker, finally, and it seems like it could be a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johanhgg Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Pre-ordered a box today at local store. I imagine painting them....olive green.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I was torn on the box because I was disappointed with the quality of the DI box but looking at the models they have much more detail. Then I realized these are basically my 30k RG army translated to 40k and decided to go in. I'm picking up a box and trading my chaos for more vanguard. The question is Raptors or circle back to RG. Lias seems less necessary and Shrike could be the CC boost they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 I put in a pre-order tonight hoping to find someone to split the chaos with. One of the guys at the store is going to help me try to drum up someone I can split the chaos half with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The question is Raptors or circle back to RG. Lias seems less necessary and Shrike could be the CC boost they need. These guys have neither jump packs nor lighning claws, therefore they can't possibly be RG. Camo and precision bolters, that's clearly Raptors. Besides, Issodon will fit these guys nicely - drop in where Infiltrators have cleared a landing site, increase their movement and hand out bubbles. I'll maybe put grav chute plates onto my current Primaris Issodon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The question is Raptors or circle back to RG. Lias seems less necessary and Shrike could be the CC boost they need. These guys have neither jump packs nor lighning claws, therefore they can't possibly be RG. Camo and precision bolters, that's clearly Raptors. So 90% of what you can use from the Codex isn't Raven Guard. Good to know. Raven Guard don't use Jump Packs all the time as White Scars don't use bikes all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The question is Raptors or circle back to RG. Lias seems less necessary and Shrike could be the CC boost they need. These guys have neither jump packs nor lighning claws, therefore they can't possibly be RG. Camo and precision bolters, that's clearly Raptors. So 90% of what you can use from the Codex isn't Raven Guard. Good to know. Raven Guard don't use Jump Packs all the time as White Scars don't use bikes all the time. Rather a hint to the old topic discussing RG captain's loadouts in the fluff. Jump pack and lighning claw, jump pack and lighning claw, jump pack and thunder hammer (Korvydae), jump pack and lightning claw. BL is very creative in that regard. But the point about HQ choices is - Shrike buffs CC jump pack units. Currently, primaris don't have any, only JP models are the autocannon and assault bolter guys. Shrike alone charging a target will be dead rather quickly, and the no-overwatch thing can be achieved by Suppressors instead of his WL trait. Issodon on the other hand buffs shooting (which is everything except for the lieutenant in the current box) and his deep strike synergizes perfectly with Infiltrators, considering they keep an area free of enemy deep strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 If we're talking pure crunch it's Lias. I just miss my RG and want to use my Dark Fury models and Chooser of the Slain from 30k as Shrike and have a bunch of Vanguard support them. The Vanguard zone and the whirlwind of blades does its fell work. It just my personal apprehension to "sunset" my thousands of points of manlets for the Vanguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven 19 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The question is Raptors or circle back to RG. Lias seems less necessary and Shrike could be the CC boost they need. These guys have neither jump packs nor lighning claws, therefore they can't possibly be RG. Camo and precision bolters, that's clearly Raptors. So 90% of what you can use from the Codex isn't Raven Guard. Good to know. Raven Guard don't use Jump Packs all the time as White Scars don't use bikes all the time. Rather a hint to the old topic discussing RG captain's loadouts in the fluff. Jump pack and lighning claw, jump pack and lighning claw, jump pack and thunder hammer (Korvydae), jump pack and lightning claw. BL is very creative in that regard. But the point about HQ choices is - Shrike buffs CC jump pack units. Currently, primaris don't have any, only JP models are the autocannon and assault bolter guys. Shrike alone charging a target will be dead rather quickly, and the no-overwatch thing can be achieved by Suppressors instead of his WL trait. Issodon on the other hand buffs shooting (which is everything except for the lieutenant in the current box) and his deep strike synergizes perfectly with Infiltrators, considering they keep an area free of enemy deep strikers. Could just convert up some primaris vanguard veterans. They could clear up what this lot leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duz_ Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Lets not get too carried away with the excessive quoting now :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttoVonAwesome Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Restricting it to Phobos armour makes sense - first of all, it's designed to be mobile and silent, second it would be rather hardcore if these powers could be used for primaris powerhorses. Untargetable hellblasters, uber advancing aggressors, that would pretty much make no gaming sense (except for Pay to Win) and make the other vanguards largely redundant. This way, the sneaky guys get to be sneaky and that's it. Reminds me of 7th edition - one force multiplier got out in any imperial faction, and would create insanely broken combos by attaching it to a unit it was never intended to go with. Glad they restrict it here to the light units - it might even give reivers new life. Reivers are alot better in proper city fight. Honestly I think thier biggest drawback is they take an elite slot when they should be close support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Reiver are definitely better in things like Urban Conquest. I've taken them there a few times. Take the High Ground mission was pretty great with them. I think the core rules need a guidance on terrain; too often I see almost no terrain. I really wish the points leaked. I want to make lists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpwyrm Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 You can theorize their point cost by comparing Power Level of similar existing units. For exemple, Intercessors and Infiltrators have the same PL. My guess is that Vanguard will cost a little more than regular Primaris because of the special rules, so I would say 90 pts for a 5-man Infiltrator squad. Same kind of premium cost as for deathwatch Intercessors vs regular Intercessors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Well... looks like that's a pseudo SftS for free... which is nice... but I feel like that makes SftS even less of a desirable choice since we have to deploy, pay CP, then see if we want to move. Unless you really need to move something outside of your deployment zone I don't see SftS being that great IF you are taking this as your warlord trait. Great for Raptors though, it's almost like you can get to Lias bombs now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Eisenhorn Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Does anyone feel like they looked at the Raptors and reversed engineered these new Vanguard units from them? Even if they didn't they might as well have. Just incredibly excited to paint some of these up green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorNese Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Well, that just makes Infiltrators a lot nastier - placing 30 of the dudes somewhere across the board, then redeploy anywhere where they will truly be needed. With 3 units, we could block enemy scout/SftS moves across the board, then after their redeploy is done, move the unit that blocked them to a better spot. The other WL trait (+1 to hit for one unit within 3") is not bad either - plasma safely overcharging, yay... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Does anyone feel like they looked at the Raptors and reversed engineered these new Vanguard units from them? Even if they didn't they might as well have. Just incredibly excited to paint some of these up green. I have had this thought so often that I actually have worked my own little bit of head canon to support it: -People keep going back and forth for what the new Primarch is going to be, loyalist or heretic? Loyalist right, as we have less of them? My thoughts? Corvus is back, and has been back a while. He's been helping Bobby G with this new wave of Vanguard, and won't reveal himself until the time is right. Shock and awe, and all that. Yep, that's the story and im stickin' to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 WHICH is a good story for another thread ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nusquam Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Saw the points rumors. The one big thing for me is the cost of infiltrators; that's pretty steep. They are mechanically very advantagous, but they're still T4 3++ 2W. Even with the Helix I don't like the cost. If matched play didn't have the turn 1 deepstrike restriction I would like them more. Still running 20 of them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Captain Vyper Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Yea, thats the issue isn't it? Omni-scramblers is a great rule on paper. Ideally we wanted Infiltrators to cost an amount that would allow for running 3 units, perhaps even all 10-man, and creating a massive null-zone for reserves. (Maybe 6 5-Man squads for a double Batt list) Now the issue is due to the cost, we would need to run less. Running less means its easier for your opponent to just punch a whole in the null-zone line and then drop there. I mean an argument can be made for hiding them so they cant be shot off the board on T1, buuut that becomes harder and harder the more you take, and 32mm bases eat up real estate real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewarriorhunter Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 This thread is a little calmer than the one on the main board so I'll voice this here: is the source of the points reliable? There's no images to accompany them so there's no way to be sure. They could be right, but they could have also made something up and the internet has latched on to it. Also if they are costed too high we've seen GW lower points so maybe that's what the future will hold (if they are over costed). The units' rules are very cool/powerful, I think we can all agree on that. I can understand GW wanting to be cautious with their costing so that they don't take over the game board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambit Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/ayhk2r/shadowspear_point_costs_apparently_leaked/ Captain in Phobos 110 Eliminator 18 + 3 weapon Infiltrator 22 Helix Adept 32 Librarian in Phobos 100 Lt in Phobos 80 Suppressor 18 + 15 weapon I actually think that's good value for the Librarian, Suppressor and Eliminator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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