Does the Inquisition have authority over Guilliman?

[Kinstryfe]

To paraphrase, "If you take a shot at the king, you'd best not miss". Because at the most you'll get one shot before you're taken down yourself. The Inquisition in particular exists mostly now by its own authority. They appoint their own Inquisitors and their authority is dependent on who is able to exercise their power at any given time. Some Inquisitors think Horus was right to try to use Chaos to empower mankind. Some believe The Emperor is a big-G God already. I'm sure some think that the Imperial Regent is an inhuman monster just like all the Primarchs that proved untrustworthy. The thing is when a lone Inquisitor shows up among Astartes slinging accusations of heresy...well, just ask the Dark Angels how that usually works out for them.

[noigrim]

No, he's the imperial regent, more like the reverse

[Ishagu]

Guilliman speaks with the Emperor's full authority, not just on his behalf. He also has the support of the Custodes who's own authority predates the Inquisition.

 

Short answer: The Inquisition have no authority over Guilliman. He was a big deal before they even existed.

[Sete]

Authority is the wrong word.

They answer to him as much as they would answer the High Lords.

While they cannot dismiss his power and influence it would be folly to Guilliman to do the same to them. Their power was invested by the will of Emperor of Mankind that tasked Malcador to build up the Inquisition and Grey Knights at the closing stages of the Horus Heresy.

Guillimans won't be ordering the Inquisition around, and the Inquisition won't be ordering Guilliman around. He might speak for the Emperor, like the High Lords do, but he is not the Emperor. They simply cannot dismiss each other but they can help or hinder accordingly.

[Slave to Darkness]

Only got Gullimans word that he met the big E. Pix or it didnt happen.

[Ishagu]

We know he did because the Custodes let him in, and because we have access to official lore in which Guilliman's internal monologue describes what happened.

[Apothecary Vaddon]

Only got Gullimans word that he met the big E. Pix or it didnt happen.

And the Custodes'...you want to be the inquisitor that goes up against the Golden Boys? glhf

[Slave to Darkness]

Maybe so, but I still think he shouldnt be above Inquisitors. Hopefully we get another primarch return who has issues with Guilliman ruling the show. Did any primarchs have issue with him 'empire building' with imperium secundus? Thats where I lost track with the heresy series.

[Sete]

The Lion I reckon.

[Ishagu]

The Lion did at first.

 

The two don't like each other but they respect each other.

[Kinstryfe]

Maybe so, but I still think he shouldnt be above Inquisitors. Hopefully we get another primarch return who has issues with Guilliman ruling the show. Did any primarchs have issue with him 'empire building' with imperium secundus? Thats where I lost track with the heresy series.

Well, you're ignoring that the mandate to the Inquisition was delivered by an Imperial Regent, acting as the proxy of The Emperor, a relationship which can't be overlooked. An Inquisitor is empowered by The Emperor to do their job, while the Imperial Regent is a proxy to The Emperor whose directive carries the same weight. If another Primarch returns and has issues with Guilliman being in charge, they have limited options. They can request an audience with The Emperor and follow whatever directive is given, they can accept Guilliman as Imperial Regent, or they can go renegade. Inquisitors have the same options, likely minus the audience.

There's also an issue of character at play. People like to think of Guilliman as a tyrant while overlooking that he doesn't particularly want to be in charge of the mess that is the Imperium. Even during Imperium Secondus, he explicitly didn't want to be Emperor and was overjoyed when Sanguinius agreed to take the role. The only way I could see him not be overjoyed to have a brother back to share the burden is if they approached The Emperor and He insisted there would be no sharing, which would make the brother a heretic if they disobeyed. A lot of people seem to think that someone like the Lion would come back and rebel against Guilliman, where all prior actions point to Guilliman being ecstatic to have someone he could appoint as his warmaster.

 

You may not like the direction, and you may have sympathy with what would be a canonically radical Inquisitor, but questioning the Lord Commander, appointed by The Emperor himself is, technically, heresy. If The Emperor wasn't bothered by Aeldari magic or Cawl's technology, then it's not a problem :)

[Slave to Darkness]

True. But like Ishagu said, we have GW fluff telling us Guilliman spoke to him. In world theres only his word for it.

[Prot]

True. But like Ishagu said, we have GW fluff telling us Guilliman spoke to him. In world theres only his word for it.

Well GW fluff is all we have.

 

It’s not a debate. There’s a few scenes referring to this moment and although we arent witness to the conversation we know from Dark Imperium that Guilliman was left with quite a depressed state and heavy shoulders from the encounter.

 

The Inquisitors (some anyway) fear him. If he wants to disband certain arms of them, he can. If he wants to double their number, he can. This is established in The Emperor’s Legion. The coming of Guilliman had many fat cats sweating in fear of being exposed and disbanded. They fear losing their power base and a lifestyle that has made many of them rich and influential.

[Sete]

Guilliman got rid of some high lords.

If he was all powerfull as some of you want to believe, he would have disbanded the eclesiary.

He has to play politics and inquisition is far from powerless. An attack against them as an institution is bound to make his life very very difficult.

[Ishagu]

There's absolutely no way to do that without substantial conflict. He knows when and how to compromise.

 

To cause civil war within the Imperium during a time of crisis is not something he would entertain.

 

Could he do it? Probably, and he would succeed but it would be a costly and long process. Dismantling the institution of the church isn't quite the same as removing the religion, either.

[justicarius6]

An Inquisitor can and certainly may be suspicious about Guilliman's return, even more so if they pieced together any of the actual facts of the event, afterall being suspicious is line 1 in the job description. Has an Inquisitor got the actual authority to declare him a heretic? Not a chance.

 

I'm sure there are several Inquisitors investigating the situation, there may even be a few working behind the scenes already to curtail him, but actual open warfare against Guilliman and the Primaris? I'm pretty sure who'd be labelled the heretic in that situation and it's not the big guy in blue.

[Rik Lightstar]

Guilliman got rid of some high lords.

If he was all powerfull as some of you want to believe, he would have disbanded the eclesiary.

He has to play politics and inquisition is far from powerless. An attack against them as an institution is bound to make his life very very difficult.

Guilliman is a pragmatist and long term thinker. He may dislike the Eclesiarchy BUT they're a useful tool, especially as the back him for being a returned loyal son of The Emperor.

 

I'm the wider fight against Chaos the Eclesiarchy is a more effective weapon than either the Inquisition, the Astartes or the Imperial Guard. Because it prevents cult uprisings and purges anyone it finds who's tempted by Chaos.

 

Aside from this, if he DID manage to disband the Imperial Church then what would the normal soldiery fight for when they don't believe The Emperor is a God any more?

 

Rik

[Sete]

Guilliman will never get rid of the Eclesiarchy. He is much of a tool for them as much as they are for him.

What better propaganda than the man himself returned from the dead?

[Slave to Darkness]

Well Ivs got plenty to think about now. Thanks guys. :tu:

 

might develop the idea for an Inq28 warband instead of actual 40k

[Prot]

There's absolutely no way to do that without substantial conflict. He knows when and how to compromise.

 

To cause civil war within the Imperium during a time of crisis is not something he would entertain.

 

Could he do it? Probably, and he would succeed but it would be a costly and long process. Dismantling the institution of the church isn't quite the same as removing the religion, either.

 

Agreed. It isn't about 'can he do it' as much as 'the consequences'. 

 

This kind of concept is visited in relation to 'religion' in the Imperium as well. As much as he disagrees with it, he sees consequences for discontinuing it as well. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

One thing about Bobby is he knows the Emperor is not a God. This a great discussion btw.

[Rik Lightstar]

One thing about Bobby is he knows the Emperor is not a God. This a great discussion btw.

 

I wonder about that though, maybe the thing that was weighing so heavily on Roboute after his audience was the realisation that The Emperor has now achieved that status by most meaningful measures. That's the only thing I can think of that would blow his mind to that extent.

 

Ruling the Imperium wouldn't phase him in the same fashion, that's basically just a big logic puzzle and a lot of management, that's his absolute sweet spot.

 

Rik

[Karhedron]

Aside from this, if he DID manage to disband the Imperial Church then what would the normal soldiery fight for when they don't believe The Emperor is a God any more?

A good question. He saw the Emperor's attempt at the "Imperial Truth" worked out last time. It is kinda hard to persuade people that gods don't exist when they keep opening warp portals and spewing out hordes of daemons at you.

 

In Dark Imperium, Guilliman muses on the irony that farith is one of the few things holding the Imperium together and wonders how many lulz Lorgar gets out of the situation.

[Indefragable]

In Dark Imperium, Guilliman muses on the irony that farith is one of the few things holding the Imperium together and wonders how many lulz Lorgar gets out of the situation.

 

 

Yea that was a great moment in that story.

 

RG is not one of my favorite characters in the setting, but I would suspect that he would actually admire the Inquisitor who showed up and made logical claims as to why RG is a heretic/poised to bring about another HH all over again. I imagine RG would push back,, get all up in his face, raise a guantlet to pulverize....but when the Inquisitor stands his ground, acknowledges his own doom, and says "sir, it is my solemn task to guard against anything that could possibly cause another cataclysm such as the HH. Your situation is one such possibility. You may strike me down, but I go to my death knowing I am doing my duty..." RG would actually smile at this and pat him on the back admiring anyone who can stand so resolute in the face of an angry Primarch like himself. And yes, the Inquisitor is doing his duty and people of such conviction are needed more than ever in these times. RG would admit the logic of "watching the watchers" and appoint the Inquisitor Chief Watcher (or some such title) just the way he raised the Ministorum Priest Matthew (forget his name) to be his personal Priest/leader of the faith etc...

 

What RG wouldn't stand is sulking around in the shadows and sniping at him with barbed words in courtly functions.

[balordazul]

I don't think they do and I'm not a lore nut but if the AC don't care about the Inquisition via the book The Carrion Throne why would Guilliman and the last time he walked about before Eldar magic there was no Inquisition as we know it today from what I know of HH.