Does the Inquisition have authority over Guilliman?

[Inquisitor Red]

Lets not forget that the Emperor isn't shy from using the strengths of Xenos races for his own agenda. Look at the Void Dragon on Mars (aka Necron C'Tan). The Emperor put it there to empower the Mars to blossom into the Mechanicum. Something tells me he isn't going to label Gilly a traitor for taking advantage of Xenos tech. 

[Sete]

Lets not forget that the Emperor isn't shy from using the strengths of Xenos races for his own agenda. Look at the Void Dragon on Mars (aka Necron C'Tan). The Emperor put it there to empower the Mars to blossom into the Mechanicum. Something tells me he isn't going to label Gilly a traitor for taking advantage of Xenos tech.

Allegedly.

[balordazul]

The void dragon is a very goofy thing as we only get a vision from a HH book about big E and the void dragon.  Also the void dragon was a little more common in the old necron lore and I'm not even sure if it is referenced in any of the new necron stuff post 5th ed retooling, maybe in the admech books or codex?

 

I'm curious how does the AC stand in relation to Guilliman?  As in working with him or does he have control of them because of his position?  

I know we have not seen the definitive proof in a story of the AC being used to cull space marines but it is hinted at in the books and some older rumors before we ever got HH novels.  If this is the case I can understand why the AC don't go all fan girl like the normal marines do over a primarch.  

[Ishagu]

The Adeptus Custodes have no love for the Primarchs. Many dislike them as their loyalties are not guaranteed.

 

Guilliman does seem to exert some small measure of control over them (deployment, bodyguards etc) but only in a limited capacity as they only really answer to the Emperor.

[librisrouge]

I’d bet that Guilleman has literally zero control over the Custodes. I believe they see themselves as simply doing their duty to protect him (and by proxy the Imperium, which by proxy protects the Emperor.) Listening to him and helping his efforts simply makes that easier.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

Quite sad really, that one of the most loyal (equal tier to dorn,angel boy and russ) would be viewed with such suspicion even amongst the AC. I'm sure opinions are individual on the matter when it comes to how each gold plated protector views the issue.

 

But of the Inquisition did start a war they would be squaring of against the galactic East as an entity, not just the ultras and their successors.

 

Probably would be of en even greater magnitude and threat than the Horus Heresy. A legit rational minded primarch kicking the old stagnant buggers Into check.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think there is some mutual admiration plus they really need it each other now. Only a fool would squabble.

[librisrouge]

Should the custodes, inquisition, ministorum, and Guilleman play nice and get along? Yes.
 
BUT...
 
The inquisition has a responsibility and divinely appointed duty to ensure that no vulnerability, such as an overly charismatic and brash primarch centralizing power in himself before turning to chaos, is present in their Imperium.
 
The custodes have a responsibility and divinely appointed duty to ensure that no threat to the Emperor of Mankind, such as overly charismatic and brash primarch centralizing power in himself before turning on his father, is present in their Imperium.
 
The ministorum has a responsibility and divinely appointed duty to ensure that nothing that could shake the masses faith in the divinity of the God-Emperor, such as overly charismatic and brash primarch declaring that the galaxy runs on secular rules, is present in their Imperium.
 
And Guilleman has a responsibility and paternally appointed duty to ensure that nothing destroys the Imperium and diverges it from his father's dream of a unified mankind with a strong secular paradigm moving towards enlightenment, such as multiple monolithic organizations that consider themselves under divine mandate to do just that.
 
 
They all have many reasons to get along and many reasons to kill each other and let the God-Emperor sort it out.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

tbh I don't come here to argue background... I will say that based on the novels I have read centering around Dark Imperium there is no clash between Guilliman and the Custodes.

[WarriorFish]

Please refrain from bringing real life politics into a topic; no amount of justification with regards to how 40k may be influenced allows you to circumvent the rules, so please respect them and their intent. Thanks.

[librisrouge]

tbh I don't come here to argue background... I will say that based on the novels I have read centering around Dark Imperium there is no clash between Guilliman and the Custodes.

I could be wrong on which novel it was in but I thought that Watchers of the Throne established that the custodians just don't trust primarchs in general. I've kinda interpreted that to mean that the custodes don't 100% trust Guilleman either. Seems like being his bodyguard would also be an effective way to ensure he is dealt with should he prove untrustworthy. I might have been reading too much into it though.

[Ishagu]

There's no overt animosity between the Custodes and Guilliman but his Custodian bodyguard are there to watch him as much as to protect him.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Don't read into it too much Ishagu as I am sure you are aware the Custodes are fighting along everyone else now (see Emperor's Legion).

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

Custodes have one goal: safeguard the Emperor.

 

Guiliman's role is to safeguard the imperium.

 

 

That will always be a subtle but vital difference. If Guiliman made a move that would put the Emperor at risk... I feel like a rather lethal decent of gold would crash upon him.

 

As should be.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

They don’t want to mess with him really.

[MyD4rkPassenger]

They don't want to mess with him no, but I would hope Trajan would do what must be done in the almost zero chance he tries to directly/indirectly harm the big E.  A big part of their identity now is that they failed once, they will not fail again.  

 

As far as the inquisition goes, as much as I like it as an institution, I agree with Guilliman's sentiments that just like the imperial truth a well intentioned design has gone so wrong.  He won't do anything about it as a whole until the galaxy is stable (4th wall break: never) and they won't do anything against him since the Custodes have allowed him to commune with the Emperor and vouched for his legitimacy as the Emperor's proxy in most matters.

 

I've thought it akin to the one co-worker you have to interact with daily and get a lot done with, but both of you really don't like each other whatsoever.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

This is a very silly discussion assuming that they would ever have a reason to fight each other... I'm out.

[Biscuittzz]

This is a very silly discussion assuming that they would ever have a reason to fight each other... I'm out.

 

You must have missed the whole thing called the yano.....Horus Heresy.

[Plasmablasts]

We have to bear in mind that the Inquisition is an institution but not really an organisation. The closest one can get to the “Inquisition’s” attitude to Guilliman would be a rough consensus; I’m sure that almost any conceivable opinion will be held by at least someone in the Inquisition. So, yes, there will be Inquisitors who regard Guilliman as a dangerous heretic or a blasphemous abomination, but their capacity to act on those views will be limited by their access to resources. While an Inquisitor has theoretically unlimited authority to requisition any Imperial assets, in practice that will be restricted both by the willingness of those assets to comply (what’s going to get me into most trouble: refusing this Inquisitor or acting against the Lord-Regent of the Imperium?) and by the actions of other Inquisitors who believe Guilliman to either be the saviour of the Imperium or at least just require too much of a disruption to remove.

 

As to the opening question: does the Inquisition have authority over Guilliman? I think Guilliman would acknowledge the authority of the Inquisition. He would certainly recognise that no-one in the Imperium (below the Emperor) should be above scrutiny and I think that he would accept that scrutiny (as he accepted the imposition of the watch-pack). I think he would also have some respect for the Inquisition as an institution: it has managed to cleave to it’s mission for ten millennia (yes, countless Inquisitors have fallen, walked the paths of the Radical and the Heretic, acted out of self-interest, personal vendetta or blinkered dogmatism, but the Inquisition has not failed to faithfully conduct its war against the Daemon, the Heretic and the Alien for all that time.) Whether he would accept an Inquisitor opposing his plans or bringing censure against him is harder to say: it would take a brave Inquisitor to take such steps and, as above, it would need a very persuasive Inquisitor to muster the resources to be able to carry out such action.

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

 

This is a very silly discussion assuming that they would ever have a reason to fight each other... I'm out.

You must have missed the whole thing called the yano.....Horus Heresy.

 

Lol half the primarchs go full rouge. The rest either die, do something akin to suicide or just straight abandon the imperium because reasons but no we should totally trust the blue one.

 

"BUT NOT MY GUY!"

[Kinstryfe]

The Custodes don't just view the Primarchs with distrust, but also pretty much all Astartes except the Grey Knights, whom they have a whole different level of general dislike for it seems. In their eyes the only organization who would never betray The Emperor is themselves, so all others have the capacity for betrayal, and must therefore never fully be trusted. I'm sure they view the Inquisition in the same light, and I'd wager that they would be one of the few to outright challenge or deny an Inquisitor's authority over them. It's also likely that they view Guilliman as a positive thing overall, but believe he must be carefully watched as well as protected. I actually really want a novel exploring the interplay between all these various political alliances now.

[Plasmablasts]

The recent Battle Sister Bulletin has iconography commemorating the execution of Goge Vandire, so the risks associated with having too much power in the hands of a charismatic demogogue are not forgotten: the Inquisition, Custodes and the Ecclesiarchy will be keeping an eye on Guilliman.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/18/18th-feb-battle-sister-bulletin-part-1-adepta-sororitas-iconographygw-homepage-post-1/

[Brother Zeal]

Only got Gullimans word that he met the big E. Pix or it didnt happen.

 

Well, he's got the Emperor's Sword, which if I recall has supposedly been lying in the Emperor's lap since the end of the Heresy.

 

That said, the sword Guilliman is running around with doesn't exactly match the description we get of the Emperor's Sword in The Master of Mankind...

 

 

I could be wrong on which novel it was in but I thought that Watchers of the Throne established that the custodians just don't trust primarchs in general.

 

Once upon a time, the Emperor trusted the Custodes enough to share thoughts and opinions he could not confide to others. Chief among these was his perception of the Primarchs as tools of conquest, not as sons. Tools that were one day to be set aside when their work was complete. It's likely this revelation has been passed down the generations of Custodes and is a view still held by their present members.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"Chief among these was his perception of the Primarchs as tools of conquest, not as sons. Tools that were one day to be set aside when their work was complete. It's likely this revelation has been passed down the generations of Custodes and is a view still held by their present members."

 

False .

[Sete]

"Chief among these was his perception of the Primarchs as tools of conquest, not as sons. Tools that were one day to be set aside when their work was complete. It's likely this revelation has been passed down the generations of Custodes and is a view still held by their present members."

 

False .

I'm waiting for your rebuttal.