Morticon Posted May 19, 2019 Author Share Posted May 19, 2019 You're not wrong, Tokugawa. It was my most mistake riddled game :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5316889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Mort, awesome results! Very well done! So where is the synergy In the Chaos list, I'm not seeing it? Seems like a few good units and Slaanesh double fire is always good... But what else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317139 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 It’s not obvious to me either but I’m sure it must be the nasty nasty. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokugawa Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Mort, awesome results! Very well done! So where is the synergy In the Chaos list, I'm not seeing it? Seems like a few good units and Slaanesh double fire is always good... But what else? Just small combos, but still significantly improve units performance once linked. 1. AL strat could infiltrate havocs forward turn0. They can move&fire without penalty, so hide them behind a los blocking building, turn1 go upstairs and fire 8*4*2 = 64 shots. When going second and no such terrain to hide, embark on Rhino. 2. Possessed are bullets magnet. With built-in -1 to hit, and -1 to hit from Apostle's prayer and Miasma, they can get -2 or -3 to survive longer. 3. Turn 2 Obliterators teleport in. Throw any possible buff to them. Pay all your CPs to buy damage output, like BA players doing everyday. (IMO a well screened gunline could endure these 3 waves. But the TAU and IG players in the tournament, were just one win away from the final, due to their mistakes) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 The Possessed become a massive anvil too, getting a potential +1 to their inv save too. They (or anyone else) can also get feel no pain. Added to this, the psychic smite output is really deadly for aggressive elite armies like mine. The Tau player actually played him in game ones but they weren't using clocks, and the Choas guy is very slow. So they only got to turn 2. Tau would have smoked him. Similar issue with the final game vs BA Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Only two turns wow ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317244 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Grats Mort! I like it when «we» do well :-) If I’m not mistaken the lists attending were quite diverse? Incredibly diverse. And as far as I was concerned, the highest percentage of very, very strong lists that I've ever seen in a tournament. I've been in small and very very big tournaments, but this one (only 24 players) just had almost every list as a notable threat. It was nice to see the other BA player battling it out for the top spot in the finals (The Sang Guard player). He had an awesome BA/Admech list. very strong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 I´ll not take anything away from the chaos player, but slow-play is really annonying. Some local tournaments impose a battlepoint/score penalty for players who consistently are unable to play 6 game turns. The more I think of it, the more positive I get to the idea of chess clocks ( I have never used one). RE: Mort Spam hurts like crazy vs BA and DW. In addition the DP of T is potent in melee too. I think the "only" BA/DW unit tanking smite like a boss is the humble rhino with a wound cost of 7. One might sugest scouts eat smites well too, but a scount unit loses efficiency per wound suffered and has a moderate cost per wound. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Yeah, he was a great player. And not slow-playing per se, just a very very meticulous player that wasn't used to the time constraints of the tourney. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Congrats on your win, Mort! Not too shabby at all haha It was a genuine pleasure to meet and play against you, I am also relieved to know I am not the only player who uses Forlorn Fury on captain smash then forgets to move him in the movement phase...oh the pain, the pain of it. Glad to know the Sanguinary guard have earned your respect! They've changed a lot with being able to take 10 - man units, give them 5+++, fists the same points as swords and the Heirs of Aezkellon rule. The number of new players there was a surprise. Their passion for the game truly inspired me. Theres' great vibes here about the future of the Chinese 40k scene See you next time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Cheers Tokugawa for clearing up. Seems very nasty! Good job on the SG Shaezus, how did they fare throughout? Would've interested in a thread from you too discussing your thoughts and battles! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Charlo, the SG did really well. The key to their success was taking one of them as WL to get full rerolls. Combo that with the sanguinary ancient for reroll 1s to wound in the fight phase. Rerolls are IMO the number 1 factor in the top lists. They turn seriously fluffed rolls into below average ones, average rolls into good rolls and more often than not you'll wreck face. Their 2+ and 5++ was big too. They got lucky vs Mort, taking only 2 casualties (or 3?) From the full firepower of his veteran squads. I'll pop a brief Batrep summary thread up soon :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Charlo, the SG did really well. The key to their success was taking one of them as WL to get full rerolls. Combo that with the sanguinary ancient for reroll 1s to wound in the fight phase. That is really interesting - though surely you'd get more out of putting the trait on a character and keeping him nearby? Or even on the ancient himself? Or is the fact that the squad needs to be wiped to remove the trait the key strength? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 It means they can operate away from a Captain (who will be off ashing things elsewhere), snipers can't target the Warlord, no need for a Chaplain, etc. The drawback is no WT, no ++ save, and any big gun will wipe them like they do anything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317427 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaezus Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Pretty much as Jolemai says, though a lack of invul isn't so much an issue. The way AP works now, only melta &c force a save worse than 5+ without cover. The chaos autocannons were the most effective thing against them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Verging into UotW:SG territory now but I run six and whilst I do find Shield of Sanguinius to be wasted, a large melta hit or worse does make me wish for a built in version. At ten strong and that being the Warlord unit, then it's going to draw all the big guns at AP -4/-5. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majkhel Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Fantastic result Mort, congratulations!! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Where did that Tau list end up? Tau list ended up 8th after losing to me in the last game, and to the winning list in game 1. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 20, 2019 Author Share Posted May 20, 2019 Congrats on your win, Mort! Not too shabby at all haha It was a genuine pleasure to meet and play against you, I am also relieved to know I am not the only player who uses Forlorn Fury on captain smash then forgets to move him in the movement phase...oh the pain, the pain of it. Glad to know the Sanguinary guard have earned your respect! They've changed a lot with being able to take 10 - man units, give them 5+++, fists the same points as swords and the Heirs of Aezkellon rule. The number of new players there was a surprise. Their passion for the game truly inspired me. Theres' great vibes here about the future of the Chinese 40k scene See you next time! Also.... You sneaky bum!!!!!! :P Had no idea you were on the forum/ on the Wechat group!!!! Some awesome insider info there :P :P Good meeting you too, mate! Catch you in Shanghai, maybe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Glad to hear you did so well. Anything you would change in your list after running the gauntlet? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 21, 2019 Author Share Posted May 21, 2019 Glad to hear you did so well. Anything you would change in your list after running the gauntlet? Good question. And to be honest...I'm really happy to say, "no". Everything worked as it was supposed to. Of course, there would have been different things I would have liked to include, but the inclusion of them would have meant exclusion of something else. I think, if i wanted to play something similar again, and had all the models, the only thing i'd maybe consider differently is a triple mortar-team IG detachment, and then work dreads into the BA, but the RG rules worked wonderfully for those four units. Also, my selection of assassins was poor. Really poor. Terrain meant the vindy wasn't the top pick always. I think i would have just liked to have played better in at least 2 of my games. One vs. Shaezus - Ironically, even though I have serious game changing moves through the use of my forlorn fury Smashy, I'm not used to deploying against it, so, even though it was in my mind, I didnt deploy well enough to stop or mitigate it. Poor form on my part. It was only thanks to a massive blunder on his part that I won that. The Tfire, really helped with tremor shells in games 1 and a bit in 4, but did little else otherwise. i still like it for the backfield claiming. The Contemptors were such awesome workhorses. Best vehicle I feel we have available to us. 168 points for four lascannons hitting on 2s. They were great, man. Phobos Libby was useful, but I played him poorly. Often throwing him away -he was a distraction carnifex, but he went down too cheaply sometimes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5317904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted May 21, 2019 Share Posted May 21, 2019 Congrats on podium, well played! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5318003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted May 23, 2019 Author Share Posted May 23, 2019 Some more detailed list overview/report. Smash Cap:He's always a star. We know this. I threw him away in one game. Completely threw him away. And it lost me the whole game. I played like a donkey in that game, but nevertheless - smashy is consistent and great. Having the option to use other WL traits (The first time I've been in a tournament where I could do this) was amazing. I used Soul Warden once, and Foresight twice. It was great. Libby Dread: Another wonderful staple. Quickening and Wings. This guy has been amazing, and combo-ed with Might with the DW Libby, he's a beast. I usually moved him aggressively, and then pop smoke, and might- giving him some great survivability. Phobos Libby: I didn't use this guy well enough. He was my distraction carnifex, and in most games (possibly all, I cant remember), I gave him Armour Indomnitus. With the -1 to hit, and the 2+ save, with an additional +2 in cover, he was super tanky at times. There were occasions where I rolled super poorly, and he just melted - this was a massive pity. His ability to generate extra CP (somewhat) reliably is great, but there was little else he was being used for. I think he was possibly the most inefficient choice in my list. DW Captain:Workhorse unit. Not overly killy, but did what he was supposed to, supported where he needed to, and most often brought units to him from the beacon. He could benefit from a shield, but I feel the 4 SIA shots hitting on 2s rerolling is far too good. DW Libby: Tried out null zone once, and it did help a tad, but for the most part Veil and Might were my go to powers. Another nice synergy unit that supports the rest of the army. I love that the librarius discipline targets "astartes" units. Really helpful. Scouts: Did what they said on the box. Were rarely full on game changers, but allowed me some tactical options. I was bummed to have Tau seize on me, as they would have been great, but, they worked as needed providing good deepstrike buffer zones and adequate claiming. Scout Bikers: Same deal. Consistent and reliable, though they did seem to draw a LOT of fire. This was mitigated a little bit by the -1 to hit for RG tactics. I never used their strat - usually out of CP by that time, or theyre dead. DW Veterans - Termy squad Brilliant. Tanky. Useful. If i had more points Id throw in one more term, and a bike. Their weakness is smite. But, theyre exceptional. Really a solid anvil unit. DW Veterans - Bike/Shield. In practice games, I split these guys up 90% of the time . In the tournament, I kept them together for a few games. This allowed me to have a big chunky unit that was tough to move, but also to have a T5 majority, 15 wounds and 5x 3++ saves. It was a really nice combo that worked really well for me. DW Intercessors VERY solid. The -1 and extra range on their rifles make up for their fewer shots compared to the SB vets. They get some more utility from their choices and give you options. The last moment decision to include a Reiver into the list was a poor one. There was no use to having this guy in my list or in the squad. All i did was lose a long range bolt shot or two. Contemptors:Brilliant. LIkely to see two in every single list I make from now on. They werent blowing things up left right and center, but they were providing consistent and reliable back field support. Often, id keep them within 6" of each other, so I could pop Wisdom of the Ancients. I'm really happy with these guys, and for their cost, I'm convinced you're going to see more of them in competitive SM play in the near future. Thunderfire Cannon: Wasn't bad. Wasn't great. Solid backfield support. Techmarine never got to use his ability, cause im a numpty. But, he was always claiming and preventing back end striking. Tremor shells helped stave off the nid tide in turn 1, and kept the Chaos Possessed grounded for a turn, too. Overall, I loved how the list played. It played exactly how I wanted it, and if I was gong to the same tournament, I wouldnt change anything other than the Riever to Intercessor. It was fun and dynamic, and an enjoyable tactical experience where I never ever felt I didn't have the tools to deal with an army I was up against. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5319046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 Very tactically versatile list for sure. /thumbsup Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5319078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeblerartillery Posted May 23, 2019 Share Posted May 23, 2019 I’ve modeled most of my lists off yours mort - to solid success. I am currently on re-work number 77 based on your contemptor Mortis feedback. Ordering two during forgeworlds dread arm sale! Between your tactical analysis and based on the sang guard feedback from your and shazeaus, I’m excited to try out a new list with a solid core of dreadnought shooting paired with a solid forward element! Thanks for these reports, they are greatly appreciated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/10/#findComment-5319612 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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