Road to The North China Open

[Panzer]

Nah even on models with many wounds it's not great. A 5++ is nice but a 6++ is almost to be ignored.

[Morticon]

Hey guys, played a test game today with a RavenGuard heavy detachment -

JP Smash cap as well as a contemptor dread along with another contemptor for the DW ( I know RG is great for these guys, but the ability to reroll 1's for chosen key units or otherwise use Synaptic Severance is amazing). 


BA took it in a really fun game, and I'll possibly give a better BatRep another time, but some things that stood out for me.....

 

 

1.  The contemptors are really nice.  

2.  While I may prefer them over the devs, i think 1 dev is useful for the MW strats. 

3. I didnt miss the assassin this game - but may in others.

4.  If the Quad Cannons get to use their alternative fire, theyre scary.

 

On point 4, the wording of their rules allows for some very interesting shenanigans.  See, as it stands, the rapier itself is an independent model - it isn't fired by a firer anymore. The only condition for firing is that one of the deployed marines is within 3".  This can lead to a weird situation where your marines are in combat, the rapier isnt, but the rapier can still fire - or the marines can withdraw and the rapier can fire.  Interesting to note. 

 

5.  The quads, despite alternative fire and shenanigans are underwhelming in terms of damage output, and my real reason for having them are vs Tau drones that will hide.  This is pushing me back towards the 9 mortar guard team.  The extra CP from Kurovs will be amazing, too.   

 

However.....

 

I only found out two things today - 1, RG get a relic like Angels Wing, and a WL trait that makes it identical to Wing. 

 

This means that I can literally have two smash captains flying up turn one (thanks to a cheaper version of Forlorn Fury) and then ignoring overwatch. This will mitigate the Tau issue.

I lose the D4, but, man, oh man. The tactical flexibility here is GOLD.

I'm going to play another game with a RG smashy.  

 

I'll trade out the second Contemptor for a Dev squad, and see how it goes.  Otherwise, I'll just rock the double and see what happens.  I'll need to play nids again, though.  

[Majkhel]

Are those Ravenwing (Dark Angels), or Raven Guard? I got confused :P

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Mort I used Inflitrators today at a local tourney they are ace.

[Morticon]

Are those Ravenwing (Dark Angels), or Raven Guard? I got confused

Ravenguard! My bad! 

[lash144]

Also take a look at their chapter master shrike.

He allows all nearby RG jump units to reroll their charge. So you could take another relic.

Also he is not to shabby in CC.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I’d always rather have a hammer than claws. Claws are just not going to get it done versus the really nasty stuff like Knights.

[Morticon]

Also take a look at their chapter master shrike.

He allows all nearby RG jump units to reroll their charge. So you could take another relic.

Also he is not to shabby in CC.

Yeh, i wouldn't bother with a claw-captain, sadly :(  And also, I wouldn't be using other RG units. 

[Morticon]

So far, I've been most comfortable with the BA/DW/RG mix with the two contemptors. I believe it covers all bases and I really like it (though, I would, ideally like a Dev squad for the Mortals). But....

 

A comment in a local gaming group chat made me think of something that could be deliciously viable. 

It uses the exact same base, but forgoes all shooting for massive in-your-face fighty. 

 

Here's one more list that I feel heavily contends with the other:

 

BA BATT:

 

BA Cap - wings, hammer, shield

BA Cap - JP, shield, hammer of baal

BA LIbby Dread - (Wings, Quickening
 

5x Scouts - Bolters, StormBolter

5x Scouts - Bolters, StormBolter

5x Scouts - CCW

 

8x Vanguard - 6shields, Axe, Maul, Sword, Sword

 

DW BATT:

 

DW Cap - Hammer, StmBlt, JP, Beacon

DW Lib  - Axe, JP

 

10x Vets - 5SS, 5Bikers, 5 StmBlt

8x Vets - 5SS, 7StmBlt, 2Terms, 2Axes, 1Vanguard

5x Intercessors

 

RG BATT: 

 

RG Cap - Hammer, Shield, Ravens Fury, (WL - Silent Stalker)

RG Cap - Relic Blade, JP

 

5x Scouts - 4Snipers, HB

5x Scouts - 5Snipers

5x Intercessors

+ Assassin. 


_______________


Now, as you can see, I basically have 5 captains in there  -  both BA ones getting visions.  For those not au fait with the RG, the combo of WL trait and relic gives him exactly the same powers as the Angel's Wing (arguably better, because he can advance and charge too). In addition, with RG Chapter Tactics, he makes a pre-game 9" move, much like Forlorn Fury. 

This is ultra aggressive, but it also gives me some great board capture in the scouts and also allows some solid protection.


It BURNS through CP, and if I get first turn, I'm likely to have 7 points remaining *BEFORE* the start of the first turn (down from 18). 

 

 

Can you guys think of any broad lists that this would struggle with? I'm feeling like it's better in almost every category than my previous stuff? 

[Majkhel]

I'm surprised you moved for the snipers. Although having 9 increases the possibility of them actually doing something (in terms of mortal wounds of course), but I'm afraid they could be underwhelming.

[Morticon]

I'm surprised you moved for the snipers. Although having 9 increases the possibility of them actually doing something (in terms of mortal wounds of course), but I'm afraid they could be underwhelming.

 

I agree 100% ! I think it's just that with the RG special rules, and the fact they make for better than other scout back line claiming, they can camp objectives.  They should be in cover, so when people target them, they'll be at -1 to hit, and they just throw an annoying sniper shot out here and there.  

[Majkhel]

Fair enough :)

[lash144]

I really like this approach much more than the one with the Dreads.

Herohammer is pretty strong with Marines in general and BA in particular.

Do you guys have dense enough terrain so you can hide your HQs while moving up the board?

 

Only thing I don't like in the list are the Vanguard Vets. I don't get their role and with only 7 CP left I feel like you can't spend any on them to make them swing twice or let them charge 3D6. My first idea would be to cut them and maybe add 5 Aggressors to your DW intercessor squad (haven't calculated if it fits point wise)

 

 

As far as match up goes you got good anti horde with your DW and good anti heavy in your characters.

Potential tough match ups could be:

- psy heavy armies as you just got denies

- tough armies that are also fast: Namely Custodes Bikes and Triptides Tau. You might struggle to get through their high ++.

[lash144]

And maybe also armies which can screen you out very good: things like Nurglings or unconventional screens like Admech Breachers which can't be shot of the board easily by your DW.

[Morticon]

Great thoughts! Thanks for sharing!

 

I thanks the terrain maaaay be good enough.

 

The vanguard are a weird unit. I'm fully in agreement with you and have said in the last set of batreps that they were consistently the poorest performers in the list. Their merit came from two places. With their rapid deploy, they became a unit that could harass and tie up key units. Secondly, they provided a screen for the characters, protecting them from being targeted.

 

They literally do little to no damage every single game , but very game they tank so much for the characters.

 

I will try give them a miss next play test, see what else I can get for their 163

[Morticon]

Thoughts on trading it out for a squad of suppressors and upgrading one ba squad to an infiltrator squad? Or am I better off just doubling the amount of scouts?

[Morticon]

Could also fit in two rapiers or even the contemptor again

[keeblerartillery]

I feel like suppressors and infiltrators could be a solid add - but don’t know if they will overcome that distraction carnifex/tar pit that is the VanVets. The rapiers and contemptor, as backfield support, likely won’t be as protected in this list, and especially the contemptor will become the sole focus of your opponents AT. I think target saturation is key - bring all infantry or too many high toughness targets for your opponent to focus on.

[Panzer]

I definitely wouldn't recommend Infiltrators for their current cost. Just take Scouts instead. Suppressors may prove useful if you have so many units charging as with some unlucky rolls once they are already down a few wounds your opponent could get rid of multiple Captains. Just keep in mind that it doesn't work against big stuff like Riptides etc as you need to kill a model in the unit to deny the Overwatch.

[lash144]

I feel like Supressors are a big trap. I mean what Infantry units are you afraid of charging?

Plus two of your Captains cancel out overwatch anyway.

 

Have you thought about adding 5 DW agressors to your Intercessor unit? You could have your Cpt rush forward T1 and deploy the Beacon in cover and have those guy teleport in. Since they are 50% Aggressors the whole unit counts as T5 which really boosts their survivability.

 

Another idea would be to cut the HB from the scouts and add in a Dev squad for MW spam, but you are already tight on CP....

Or a TF-canon in your RG detachment.

Or two sets of BA scout bikes?

[Zon]

^ scout bikes are awesome. Even small buffs (like captain rerolls) give them great potential. Imo just another solid workhorse unit I think you'd like

[Morticon]

All this time, and I only just found out our scouts cant take storm bolters....

O_o 

What the heck....

 

 

[Jolemai]

Of course they can. Index options are legal :)

 

Battlescribe is up to date too.

[Morticon]

Of course they can. Index options are legal

 

Battlescribe is up to date too.

 

yaaaay !!!!! 

[Morticon]

I playtested the following list over the weekend: 

 

BA Smash Cap - Visions, Wings, Shield, Hammer

BA Smash Cap - VIsions, JP, Shield, Hammer of Baal

Libby Dread - Wings, Quickening

 

5x Scouts- SB

5x Scouts- SB

8x Scouts - CCW

 

6x Scout Bikers

 

RG Smash Cap - Ravens Fury, Hammer, Shield (WL - silent stalker)

RG Cap - Relic Blade, JP, MC Bolter

 

5x Scouts - Rifles

5x Scouts - Rifles

5x Intercessors

 

DW Cap - Hammer, JP, Beacon, SB

DW Libby - Veil, Might, JP, SB, Axe

 

8x Vets - 2Terms, 1Vanguard, 6 shields, 7 SB, Axe, Sword

10x Vets - 5Bikers, 5 Shields, 5SB

5x Intercessors

 

Assassin (Vindy)
 

 

 

I was up against a really interesting and cool (I thought) list that my DA mate was playtesting. 

 

DA Phobos Libby

DA Phobos Lieut. 

 

5x Infiltrators

6x Intercessors - Sword

6x Intercessors - Sword

6x Intercessors - Sword

 

5x Black Knights

2x Tarantulas

1x Tarantula

 

Contemptor Mortis - Las

Contemptor Mortis - Las

 

Shield Captain Dawneagle

Shield Captain Dawneagle

Shield Captain Dawneagle

 

Vindicare

Eversor

Eversor

 

 

**************

 

The game was one of the most fun and tactical games I've had in ages. 

We played the 6 objective ITC mission (Mission 1).  For secondaries we both chose character killing and marked for death. 

We had #3 set up (Board quarters) and he was getting the +1 to go first. 

 

I used 4 scout squads to deploy into positions all over the board, splitting my forces somewhat, but allowing me to camp on 5 objectives to start. This would mean he would need to dedicate a lot of shooting to clear them rather than anything else. He, knowing that 2 smashies and a libby dread could be in his face turn 1, decided to play a more castled/counter approach, with the Dawneagles right at the back. 

 

The tarantulas and intercessors were taking point, with the contemptors and the bikers protected behind them. He opted to strike in the assassins. 

 

While I got first turn, he managed to seize.  I realised that the roll for seize in this type of set up isn't as devastating as it could have been anyone's first turn to start.  Something to think about i guess. 

 

I didnt really need to use my first turn movement, but decided to burn 3 CP anyway, and test it out, repositioning both remove OW captains (RG + BA). I used the protection of the scouts to move them up - hidden in plain sight. 

 

The enemy decided that since I was going to have to come to him, considering I have no long range firepower, he would sit back and thin me out where possible.  He targeted my scout bikers which were set up in my lines, and then my 8man scout and 5man rifle scout squad that were on the left flank, near an objective.  He cleared the 5man, took out 4 regular scouts, and then 4 scout bikers.  I passed all morale thankfully.

 

My turn saw me move up a little, but I couldnt launch a full on assault, as Id just get countered into oblivion. 

 

 

I decided to play the objectives.  I moved units on to all objectives, and then focused on taking out what I could.  I took out the infiltrators, and the phobos lieut (who had moved forward onto the objective). I duffed against the phobos libby.  I thought about taking him out in charging, but, this would put my characters in the lead, meaning the contemptor could make short work of them.  So, even though they were in relatively easy charge distance, I needed to keep them alive  - (especially the DW captain with the beacon).  I flanked the BA wings captain further left, and moved the RG captain up to the center into his lines.  

 

I didnt charge much, aside from the RG captain, and played conservatively, just to gain points. The RG cap took out 4 intercessors, and was now priming himself to be smashed up pretty hard. 

 

 

 

By the end of turn 1, I had jumped ahead in the score  ->  2-7 to me.  

 

Turn 2, saw him reluctant to move forward again, worried about the prospect of 4 smash captains and a dread in his face. However, this turn allowed him to deploy his assassins- so this would be interesting!!! 

 

He cleaned up the scout bikers, cleaned up the 4man scouts and took a wound off here and there - but he was still holding back.  The RG captain used his attacks to try kill the tarantula, but duffed his wounds, getting only 1 through.  The assassins were deployed targeting the BA captains.   Both assassins made it in to combat, and the Blackknights were deployed to kill the RG Cap.  He took me down to 1 wound with the RG captain, but failed to kill him.  He had elected to fight first with the BKs.  This meant that I could use two CP (still had 5) to intercept an attack - which I did with Wings Cap - I then burned rampage, and duly smote Assassin 1 into oblivion - taking a few mortals in return. Assassin 2 did 3 wounds to Hammer Cap - and took 3 in return (requiring a save reroll to avoid dying).  Both Captains made it out alive - which was great. 

 

Note to self, Eversor assassin not good vs 3++.  

 

In my turn, I moved out of combat with the Hammer Cap, and moved to engage the Contemptor with the Wings Cap.  

I knew I'd the counter, but I needed to do a little damage. Unfortunately, due to the wording of the tarantula, even though i can be targeted, I am still technically in combat, so I decided to just try and kill it.  

The dready moved along the big central LOS blocking terrain, along with the retreated hammer cap.  I moved various characters away from the eversor, expecting his explosion.  But, for some reason didnt measure my libby properly- putting him in range. 

I eventually killed the assassin, and took 3 mortals on Libby for my trouble.  I took out the tarantula,  a squad of intercessors, and the BA smash cap, powered by rampage, killed the contemptor. 

 

 

By the end of turn 2, I was still on  5 of 6  objectives, and had killed more units and gotten some characters.  The score was now sitting on 6-14.

 

 

Turn 3, saw him move out his Custodes. My cap was in trouble now.  He also knew he couldnt sit around waiting for things to change. My DW bikers had moved up to take his intercessors on, and were now receiving the same favour back.   They were promptly taken out by a variety of shooting. The RG captain finally fell, as did my librarian and my BA Smash Cap.  

 

My reserves came down, targetting his Dawneagle WL (the 3 custodes being on my marked for death list).  My libby dread jumped out, as did my hammer cap.  The DW Cap also jumped into the fray and then beaconed the 8man squad into support.
Things are a little bit fuzzy this turn, but, I remember duffing both wings and quickening, and therefore only being able to target the one custodes biker. He went down easily, though to both the hammer cap and the libby dread, while the intercessors were killed by the 8man vets.  

 

I believe this turn was the first turn that I didnt kill more than he did, but I was still on the required 5 objectives. The score went to 12-19

 

Turn 4 and beyond, his custodes moved to tackle both my libby dread and hammer cap, while his bikers moved in the back to support.  
 

He killed the libby in shooting, and the hammer captain went down too.  The libby blew up, taking some mortal wounds here and there (i think the captain may have even gone down to the llbby explosion! Though, it helped whittle down the dawneagles!! 

 

WIth the shooting from the Veterans, I managed to take out the last two Dawneagles - i also got lucky with sniper scout shooting at the vindy, hitting with three, getting 2 mortals, and then another 2 failed wounds (his first coming from their wounds earlier). 

 

The next few rounds saw victory out of his reach, but he tried to claim points where possible.  The game went on to turn 6, but by this time, he had very little (as did I, to be fair). 

The game eventually ended with him and I having max bonus, but the initial few turns of me getting more units killed, more objectives and 5 objectives meant that I was in a great place.  

 

 

The game ended 23:32 to the BA.  

 

**************


Post Game Thoughts:  

I didnt use the Relic Captain at all, and essentially played with 105 points less (he was deployed to prevent assassins in my backline, but didnt move up after the enemy deployed them.  

I REALLY like the list with all the scouts.  I like the options available to me because of them.  I LOVE how they protect the captains, who really do well.  I can see them going down cheaply to MW spam, though and I think this is my weakness.  Im going to play test this list a little more, because I really do like the tactical element they bring to an ITC style tournament. 

Will keep you all posted.