BrotherAetherick Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Goddamnit- I read that entirely wrong - for some reason I thought it was units ONLY with the fly. ><; bleh. Thanks again for the catch. I was surprised too, he was rolling 6s like it was nobodies business. I think of the 5 attacks, I got three wounds, 2 of which he saved. I think in retrospect, i should have left off hammer cap and wings cap and tried to target the Spears from the strike. No problem. I think if your libby dread survived it would have been much more in your favour. A trick I like to use with the beacon angelis redeploy (or the teleportarium stratagem) is the circle surround your libby dread. I'm not sure if wings was denied or not but normally with a 6 inch move and a 12 inch psychic phase move you can get him pretty close if you leave a circle for your dread to sit in. The beacon needs the unit to be wholly within 6 so it's a little more cramped for room, but it should still be plenty of space for the dread (or any other chars really) to be surrounded by vets. That way his bikers would not have been able to kill him, without first removing every model that was closer to where he moved (and you can remove casualties to your advantage). Then all you would need is to charge the spears outside of 6 inches (to avoid the laser lances) and he could have cleaned them up. Or he could have charged the hemlock after relic wings captain has denied overwatch to destroy it as with ap-4 he would not have had a save. Your opponent correctly realized he was probably one of the biggest threats to his army and he really only had 2 ways to deal with him, haywire and the hemlock. I think he also baited you with the razorwing. Losing two captains (and two headhunter points) was probably not worth it, as the razorwing really doesn't do that much, especially since it was a wych cult razorwing. Is this a modified ITC style mission? I believe you normally choose three secondaries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5296838 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 REAAALLY Nice tactic that. I will look into it. Yeah, wings was denied first turn, sadly :/ Yeah, the NCO is just using 2 secondaries! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5296848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherAetherick Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 Ah yes, without wings it's a lot harder to pull off as you can't walk through your own vets. Casting spells vs farseers is an annoying affair. Not sure if it was possible to move out of deny range, but if you could have, then depending on how far you were away from the place you dropped your vets you could have risked a quickening cast and then wings. As you can advance after wings goes off for an automatic 3 inches, which would give you 15 + d6 inches to work with. Although I always fail quickening so it might backfire as well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5296858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are Verlo Posted April 15, 2019 Share Posted April 15, 2019 A great read Mort, but I just have to add: Holy cow, that was one open battlefield. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5297013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 A great read Mort, but I just have to add: Holy cow, that was one open battlefield. Weirdly enough, it was actually quite blocked!! The ruins blocked LOS, so it had a few long firelanes, but actually a lot of places to hide behind and in, in terms of ruins! Glad you enjoying the read though!! Nice to see you on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5297038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 16, 2019 Author Share Posted April 16, 2019 I'll be playtesting this list in 3 games this weekend, Friday- Sunday. BA Wings Cap BA Hammer Cap BA Phobos Lib BA Libby Dread 5x Scouts- rifles 5x Scouts- rifles 7x Scouts- bolters, SB 7x Scouts- CCW, Axe 5x Scouts - bolters 5x Primaris - grenade 5x Scouts Bikes - SB 5x Devs - Las, ML, HB, Cherub DW Libby - JP, Axe, SB DW Captain - JP, Hammer, SB 10x Vets - 5bikes, 5SS, 5SB 8x Vets - 2 Terms, 1 Vanguard, 7SB, 6SS, Axe,Sword 5x Primaris - Grenade Assassin. I've basically swapped out a Smashy for the versatility of the Dev squad which, while fragile, can put out some good mortal wounds - especially when combo-ed with the Signum. Added to this, Flakk gives me some versatility with an effective +2 to hit, negating some of the Eldar shenanigans. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5297505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 Losing out on the CP from the third Detachment is a bit of a shame, but it's a good, solid looking list Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5298744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 Losing out on the CP from the third Detachment is a bit of a shame, but it's a good, solid looking list Just to clarify, it's 2x BA Battalions and 1x DW Battalion! ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5298758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 That’s a lot of CP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 That’s a lot of CP. It's INCREDIBLE to play with. And added with the Phobos Libby Mind Raid + Vindy sniping characters, means you can go from 0CP to 2CP (even three if you're lucky) in a turn. It really opens things up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothysaur Posted April 18, 2019 Share Posted April 18, 2019 I may be missing info here, but why/how are you able generate more than 1CP a turn? I thought that there was a rule introduced that limited CP generation with the last Big FAQ. As a fellow CP hungry Angel, I would love to know the secrets. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 18, 2019 Author Share Posted April 18, 2019 I may be missing info here, but why/how are you able generate more than 1CP a turn? I thought that there was a rule introduced that limited CP generation with the last Big FAQ. As a fellow CP hungry Angel, I would love to know the secrets. So, there's an exclusion for stratagems in the FAQ "This does not apply to the Moment Shackle or the Seven-fold Chant abilities, or to or the Player of the Twilight Warlord Trait – in these cases, the ability/Warlord Trait can refund or gain the player more than 1 Command Point if the Stratagem used cost 2 or more Command Points to use, but once any Command Points have been gained as a result of the rule neither it, nor any similar rule, can be used to gain any more Command Points until the next battle round. Also note that this does not apply to Command Points that are gained or refunded as specifically instructed on Stratagems (e.g. Feeder Tendrils, Agents of Vect, etc.)." edit: I had misread this TWICE! Yeah, seems all good :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothysaur Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 I may be missing info here, but why/how are you able generate more than 1CP a turn? I thought that there was a rule introduced that limited CP generation with the last Big FAQ. As a fellow CP hungry Angel, I would love to know the secrets. So, there's an exclusion for stratagems in the FAQ "This does not apply to the Moment Shackle or the Seven-fold Chant abilities, or to or the Player of the Twilight Warlord Trait – in these cases, the ability/Warlord Trait can refund or gain the player more than 1 Command Point if the Stratagem used cost 2 or more Command Points to use, but once any Command Points have been gained as a result of the rule neither it, nor any similar rule, can be used to gain any more Command Points until the next battle round. Also note that this does not apply to Command Points that are gained or refunded as specifically instructed on Stratagems (e.g. Feeder Tendrils, Agents of Vect, etc.)." edit: I had misread this TWICE! Yeah, seems all good Okay so I think I've got it; I reread the rule using my brain this time. The Vindicare gains a CP due to the use of a stratagem and is exempt from Tactical Restraint (I'm unsure of the assassin rules/strats, please correct me if I'm wrong). The CP generated by the Phobos Librarian spell doesn't refund a CP since it simply generates one if certain criteria are met, therefore it also avoids Tactical Restraint. So you could theoretically add the BA relic that lets us gain a CP back on a 5+ in addition to these other sources. Or am I over reading the rule now, this seems rather cheesy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299273 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 Guess I should have quoted the first bit too!! "There are several Warlord Traits, Relics and abilities that give you a chance to gain or refund Command Points when you or your opponent either use a Stratagem or spend Command Points to use a Stratagem. In matched play games, each player can only gain or have refunded a total of one Command Point per battle round as the result of such rules, regardless of the source." It does appear that way, as it is not gained or refunded when the opponent uses a strat, correct! This does seem to be the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299278 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slothysaur Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Whew that's a lot of CP generation! You've already got 2 relics so it's kind of a gamble to spend 2 more CP on the VV just to have a 1/3 chance to refund 1 CP per stratagem used... plus all of your characters are danger close so it's less likely to last the full course of the battle to give you more CPs back than you spent on it (though the Libby dread is pretty solid). Good stuff to know either way; I've learned something new today! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 19, 2019 Author Share Posted April 19, 2019 Oh, for sure- i wouldnt grab it! Just more an FYI for others ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 It's looking like the triple Battalion is becoming the go-to for many lists (especially mono-Marines) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/355415-gt-win/?do=findComment&comment=5299461 The above mono-1kS list is similar to yours: lots of Troops, hard hitting HQs, and a spot of flavour thrown in. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 Hey all. Had a playtest game with a list that I liked yesterday. I will write a full report soon. In short though, the princeps libby is a really, really nice add. I KNOW I will miss the artisan, but I really like the tactical aspect it allows Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 21, 2019 Author Share Posted April 21, 2019 Two more games today. Love the new list, but don't have enough experience with it against ultra shooty lists. I LOVE the versatility. The sad news is, I've swapped out the phobos libby detach for a Raven Guard one. It just makes too much sense for the type of list. Also, the relic and power shenanigans i can pull are incredible Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5299956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 What are your go to powers for the Phobos Libby ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300165 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 So, I wound up playing this for three games: BA Wings Cap BA Libby Dread 5x Scouts- rifles 5x Scouts- rifles 5x Scouts- CCW, Axe RG Hammer Cap RG Phobos Lib 5x Scouts - bolters 5x Scouts- bolters, SB 5x Primaris - grenade 5x Scouts Bikes - SB 1x Contemptor Mortis (las) DW Libby - JP, Axe, SB DW Captain - JP, Hammer, SB 10x Vets - 5bikes, 5SS, 5SB 8x Vets - 2 Terms, 1 Vanguard, 7SB, 6SS, Axe,Sword 5x Primaris - Grenade Assassin. For the Phobos Llibby I made him the warlord, as mentioned. I also felt that the shooty units needed a little more protection, and got no real buff from the BA chapter tactics. So, I switched out the BA detachment for a RG one. This isn't sitting too well with me in that, I really want a BA warlord and a BA, core force, but its literally identical models, that just play better with other rules- so it's a little bit of a no-brainer and a little bit of a head-canon switch/point-of-pride sacrifice to be made. The sniper rifles on the BA seem odd when they're best suited to the RG tactic - and I TOTALLY agree with this - however, with "Princeps of Deceipt" which is where a large element of the tricksy nature of this list lies- I wouldnt be able to reposition the BA guys, and there's less value in repositioning the snipers. I also dont have models to just make them standard BA scouts, which could be even better. The Dread and the Scout bikers also benefit from additional -1 to hit protection in the event that I go 2nd, and given the scout bikers benefit from beta-bolters, theyre often out of 12", despite having their ideal range within 12". With 18CP to start (i'm LOVING this, by the way - its SO much fun to play) I really have so many tactical options. This is buffed even more with the Assassin and the Mind Raid power. The Phobos libby second power is usually inconsequential for me, but I will likely look to Temporal Corridor for some movement shenanigans as my go-to secondary power; Mind Raid being the obvious first. Where this list also shines is in the ability to mix and match relics. In some matches, i will give the Phobos Librarian the Tome relic of the SM - this allows him to get one power from the Librarius discipline. Against daemons, and perhaps even Stealer heavy, I will look to pick up NullZone. The idea will be to pump Null Zone, then hit Temporal Corridor to mitigate that poor range on nullzone. The alternative is Might of Heroes as a secondary for the Phobos guy himself, as it really makes him a lot better with S5 and 5 Attacks. If i'm not going for the Tome, I will go for the Armour Indomitus, which was absolutely EPIC in my last game vs the Eldar. The fact that you can give your Primaris Libby a 2+ save, who, in cover, gets an additional +2 means that lascannons shooting you still allow a save of 3+. I'll use him as a bait/lure in this regard, and try get him to tank some heavy firepower. In Games 2 and 4 (for the NCO) we will be using CA18 deployment rules, which means Princeps is far less useful, as discussed in this and another thread. In these cases, or in cases against heavy firepower lists like IG/ADMECH and even Tau, I will likely take Silent Stalker - giving him immunity to Overwatch. Coupled with his infiltrate ability AND his ability to do a 9" move pre-game, this allows me to play some heavily tactical options. On top of all this, for 1 CP more (since the RG are at the helm) I can also give the RG smashy shield eternal - which gives him a little more survivability. ******************** Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300183 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 Overall review to date: I'm LOVING the amount of CP I have. Im LOVING the tactical options, and although I have no real deathstar killers, I feel this list is a scalpel more than anything else. That being said, after seeing the amount of vehicles I'm likely to face in the NCO, I feel like I am in for some real trouble. The characters work really well in killing them, but once theyre out in the open they go down quickly, leaving me with very limited options. I'm looking to put in another mortis dread - this seriously changes my list up, but i feel makes it more rounded in some regards. This is what I would change to: BA Wings Cap BA Libby Dread 5x Scouts - bolters, SB 5x Scouts- bolters, SB 5x Primaris - grenade 5x Scouts Bikes - SB RG Phobos Libby - WL 1x Eliminators 1x Eliminators 1x Contemptor Mortis (las) 1x Contemptor Mortis (las) DW Libby - JP, Axe, SB DW Captain - JP, Hammer, SB 10x Vets - 5bikes, 5SS, 5SB 8x Vets - 2 Terms, 1 Vanguard, 7SB, 6SS, Axe,Sword 5x Primaris - Grenade Assassin. This list starts off with 9 CP, unlike the other list that starts off with 12, but gives me a solid buff in the shooting. Also, the Phobos units mean I can get more versatility from the libby powers, and the redeploys if needed. I will playtest this, this week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainHelion Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Having two Mortis Dreads does provide some heavy shooting that your previous lists wasn't really packing. The loss of 3CP shouldn't be too bad, but it does shift the CP situation back to "Having a few extra" rather than the "Plenty to throw around" that you've been so enjoying. I'll be interested to see how it all plays! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted April 22, 2019 Author Share Posted April 22, 2019 I feel like the loss of the scouts and the other smashy will be a big one, too, but hopefully the shooting can mitigate. Will keep y'all posted Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted April 22, 2019 Share Posted April 22, 2019 Mort what powers do you recommend for the Phobos Libby ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354123-road-to-the-north-china-open/page/6/#findComment-5300344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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