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Loyal 32 vs Rusty 17?


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Since a CP Battery is meant to free up space you can in turn fill with higher value units, the exact loadout of the battery isn't all that relevant.

What remains is the ablative wound count and 32 > 17. Hence, in isolation, the 32 are superior.

 

With the Onager though, you suddenly have a surprisingly cheap anti tank platform that your HQs can repair, so that and their rather more exciting weapons give the 17 the edge in terms of both additional support options while keeping the cost low and variety of playstyle (sorry, IG, it's not you, it's me).

 

Plus, if you're really just after CP and have another main army you'd like to focus on, 17 models will be painted sooner than 32 ;)

Edited by HighMarshalAmp
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Well I just was wanting a broad overview but thanks all!

I like the guard aesthetically but the ability to heal knights always seem to sway me.

Im wanting to run 1250pts of knights but mostly 3 armigers and maybe one Crusader.

Or 1500 with Crusader, Gallant, Warden.

I also like the guard just to add a Psyker to my HQ to help stop or do some psyker shenanigans.

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Loyal 32 (2 company commanders, 3 infantry squads) cost 180 pts barebones, 5 units w/32 wounds total. Mass of bodies with orders, can 'hide' HWTs in squads.

Enables access to units like leman russ, basilisk, HWTs, sentinels, ogryns, hellhounds.

 

Rusty 17 (2 enginseers, 3 squads of 5 rangers) cost 165 pts barebones, 5 units w/23 wounds total. Better save and shooting, can 'heal' certain vehicles.

Enables access to units like onagers, ballistari, kataphrons, electro priests, infiltrators.

 

Both enable access to certain options, e.g. an onager w/icarus array vs. a hydra for AA duty, or an onager w/neutron laser vs. a leman russ for AT.

Which one is better for your list depends on what your list is bringing/lacking.

 

 

If you only need one detachment and have enough points leftover, you could take both the rusty 17 w/an onager for AA(array) or AT(laser) and the loyal 32 w/mortar HWTs and a leman russ for AI & AT. I don't have the point cost for an onager at hand currently, but if I remember correctly, barebones 17+32 should leave enough room to fit one onager into 500 points and leave some room for some cheap upgrades (e.g. mortars).

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I know its not the most optimal build.

But I just did this up on battle scribe..

I mostly play 1250pt games.

 

1st. Battalion: Imperial Guard

1 Company Commander

1 Psyker

3 Infantry Squads

3 HWT w/ Mortars

 

2nd. Battalion: Ad Mech

2 Tech Priest

3 Ranger Squads

 

3rd. Super Heavy Det.: Imperial Knights

Knight Crusader w/ RFBC + Stormspear

Armiger Helverin

Armiger Warglaive

 

Total: 1250

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Wouldn’t it be better to run the Armigers kitted the same ?

 

There is a 10 pts difference between the warglaive and the helverin (warglaive being cheaper), they also fill two different roles with the helverin being good at range and the warglaive as a good assault unit. It seems that the 1250 list lacks a good assault unit and all the support fire is from the knights.

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Since here in this forum we are really discussing potential builds to CP farm for Custodes it seems I would kit them both the same for redundancy .

 

In that case it depends on your Custodes build, if foot slogging I'd suggest the warglaive as a bull rusher, if mostly bikers then the helverins for good fire support. 

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Yeah it's the variable number of shots that sucks the most 4d3 means your averaging 8 hitting on 3+ so now your down to 5/6 then whatever your shooting at gets its saving throw so maybe 2 get through :( like the sisters exorcist basically to random to be reliable. Edited by Matt_149
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Yeah it's the variable number of shots that sucks the most 4d3 means your averaging 8 hitting on 3+ so now your down to 5/6 then whatever your shooting at gets its saving throw so maybe 2 get through :sad.: like the sisters exorcist basically to random to be reliable.

 

Thing is that the Thermal spear on the warglaive is d3 shots, also random. It just has a better CC attack then the helverin does.

 

True the helverins cannon isn't uber-good, but when it lands a hit it hurts.

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It occurs to me, after reading a thread in the admech section, that the Rusty 17 may be more advantageous for purely the reason of the strategems it unlocks.

 

You get a 2nd mortal wound shield strategem. You also get Knight of the Cog, enabling one knight a turn to take advantage of Canticles. That could be huge, depending on how you use it.

 

Admittedly, this requires you to be a Questor Mechanicus house but, if you're playing competitively, you already are in order to get a Cawl's Wrath Castellan.

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Keep in mind that in order for a knight to benefit from Canticles, all units in that detachment need to have the canticles rule. So only a solo knight in a super heavy aux can benefit from that strat.

Huh, did not know that. Never mind then.

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