Shadowspear unit discussion

[Dallas Drake]

I know we're yet to see the strats, psychic powers etc but does this release really do anthing for Possessed? I am desperate to get them onto the table (last time I used them they go blown away before making combat - all 20 of them) and using them.

 

My first thought was putting 8 + Greater Possessed and Dark Apostle in a Dreadclaw and going full tilt for the enemy. Any thoughts?

[Danny Cyanide]

Rule of 3 will restrict you to 6 Greater Possessed in matched play if your group uses it, but I plan to use 6!

[shandwen]

The greater possessed might allow me to break out my warptalons. I don't think they will be anywhere near top tier, but they will be better.

[Iron_Within]

I suspect the the two new codexes are in fact mini codex is that just come with the box set and are intended to be used with the main line codexis so I wouldn't get concerned about it not being able to interact with your existing army

[Mallios]

I suspect the the two new codexes are in fact mini codex is that just come with the box set and are intended to be used with the main line codexis so I wouldn't get concerned about it not being able to interact with your existing army

That's my guess as well. Datasheets for all included models, and stratagems / traits so you can play 40k with what comes in the set specifically. For anything else, the existing codex would be required.

[ChazSexington]

I looked through the leaked data sheets, and what stood out to me was that the CSMs had no options, so I'm presuming that was for some sort of beginner L2P campaign. 

The Greater Possessed was a bit meh; it doesn't synergise with Codex: Daemons, which irks me. They're there to buff Possessed, Muties, and Warp Talons, which are in dire need of some help, but I dunno if it's enough. 

The Oblit changes I have no idea about. +1 S on the weapons, +1 T, +2 W is cool, but judging from the PL (points are just PLs x20), they've almost doubled in price. I dunno, I have no idea if they got better on the table top.

 

The Venom-tick-thing seems alright, but it seems a bit expensive, but I've not used it (obviously). Giving the Master of Possessions +1 to summon seems a bit weird; the tick is so much faster and wants to go into CC. The Master of Possessions? Not so much. 

 

Master of Possessions is a Sorcerer with zero wargear options, an anti-psyker aura, a different discipline, and an invuln, the latter of which I at least have been missing.

I love all the models, especially the CSMs, bar the Oblits. The Obliterators don't look like they are infected with a daemonic virus that makes them mutate and meld with their weapons; they look like beefcakes with guns. I thought it odd to give one a Centurion foot - those suits have only been around since M37, so oddly specific to make a model for a Renegade Centurion turned Obliterator. They honestly look more like Helbrutes than Obliterators.

[dice4thedicegod]

Also sounds like they will cost as much as helbrutes.

[ChazSexington]

I know we're yet to see the strats, psychic powers etc but does this release really do anthing for Possessed? I am desperate to get them onto the table (last time I used them they go blown away before making combat - all 20 of them) and using them.

 

My first thought was putting 8 + Greater Possessed and Dark Apostle in a Dreadclaw and going full tilt for the enemy. Any thoughts?

 

They give them +1 Strength, so not too bad. I'm not convinced its enough, but it helps. Greater Possessed have the Character keyword, so they've got some protection. They seemingly don't hit that hard though. WS 2+ and minimum S6 (we don't know what its weapons, Daemonic Mutations, do).

 

I suspect the the two new codexes are in fact mini codex is that just come with the box set and are intended to be used with the main line codexis so I wouldn't get concerned about it not being able to interact with your existing army

 

It was announced they would be mini codices.

 

Also sounds like they will cost as much as helbrutes.

 

Which unit? Venomcrawlers are more expensive, but for good reason. 

[Excessus]

 

I know we're yet to see the strats, psychic powers etc but does this release really do anthing for Possessed? I am desperate to get them onto the table (last time I used them they go blown away before making combat - all 20 of them) and using them.

 

My first thought was putting 8 + Greater Possessed and Dark Apostle in a Dreadclaw and going full tilt for the enemy. Any thoughts?

 

They give them +1 Strength, so not too bad. I'm not convinced its enough, but it helps. Greater Possessed have the Character keyword, so they've got some protection. They seemingly don't hit that hard though. WS 2+ and minimum S6 (we don't know what its weapons, Daemonic Mutations, do).

 

I suspect the the two new codexes are in fact mini codex is that just come with the box set and are intended to be used with the main line codexis so I wouldn't get concerned about it not being able to interact with your existing army

 

It was announced they would be mini codices.

 

Also sounds like they will cost as much as helbrutes.

 

Which unit? Venomcrawlers are more expensive, but for good reason. 

 

 

We do know what the mutations do, it was on the leaked datasheet.

 

How do you know what the Venomcrawler costs in points? VCs and brutes are the same power level of 7.

[Khornestar]

I'm just looking forward to a strength 14 juggerlord.

 

Juggerlord (or 3) + power fist + skullmaster/bloodmaster with crimson crown nearby + greater possessed = WOOT (or 3)!

[Panzer]

I suspect the the two new codexes are in fact mini codex is that just come with the box set and are intended to be used with the main line codexis so I wouldn't get concerned about it not being able to interact with your existing army

 

It's in the article:

 

Adding the contents of Shadowspear to your main army is easy thanks to a pair of mini-codexes found in the set! As well as containing datasheets for all the miniatures in the box, each is a fully-fledged army book that’ll work on its own, even if you don’t possess Codex: Space Marines or Codex: Chaos Space Marines.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Ah. Someone didn't read my initial post if he is asking what daemonic mutations do  

 

As far as individual characters go I think that for an elite slot 2 per slot choice....the Greater Possessed surely are not bad and have a decent place. Ws 2+, 5 swings at str 6, DTtFE, and ap -2, D3 damage per hit is not shabby at all for a unit that almost assuredly will be 60-80 points. If they are in that range they will be perfect and easily able to kill anything near their point cost given they are effectively tiny daemon princes. Able to put out threat on a fair amount of targets. 

Also please bare in mind that the "lack of gear" for master of possession means basically nothing.... No one takes a sorcerer/pskyer for their "gear" choices, you take them for the lores and buff/debuff/damage output ability coming from that lore. 

I would be willing to bet that at least 1-2 of the spells in the Malelific lore are going to be "daemon buff" spells OR even possibly giving out the "daemon" keyword given the context regarding the models supposed use as well as the "daemonkin" theme going on. I keep seeing it all over the internet "The master of possession is trash!" When you literally *cannot* make that judgement without seeing the thing that makes him worth using, dang lore! (tirade over, sorry about that!) 

 

Same could be said for the venomcrawler given were missing 1 stat (the attack stat) AND were missing its point cost. (though to be entirely fair this goes for all of the above) 

[Sception]

for an elite slot 2 per slot choice....the Greater Possessed surely are not bad and have a decent place.

I agree. A pair of point & slot efficient mini-beatstick elite characters that simultaneously buff and are buffed by daemon princes will see some use, imo. The main difficulty, as with all of our various short ranged infantry heroes, is the lack of maneuverability & delivery options. With no actually good csm transports, getting these guys into combat with vulnerable targets will be difficult, and keeping them in aura range of units like venomcrawlers and daemon princes won't be much easier.

 

 

Also please bare in mind that the "lack of gear" for master of possession means basically nothing.... No one takes a sorcerer/pskyer for their "gear" choices, you take them for the lores and buff/debuff/damage output ability coming from that lore.

I agree that the malefic lore will determine whether or not the MoP is worth playing, but the current chaos lore is already so good that I have a hard time imagining that switching to malefic will be worth giving up the base sorcerer's jump pack option, given our faction's aforementioned difficulties with delivering and repositioning infantry heroes.

[helterskelter]

For malefic to be worth it for me i would need a csm version of the eldar executioner power or an approximation thereof. Please. I need my revenge

[Mallios]

 

for an elite slot 2 per slot choice....the Greater Possessed surely are not bad and have a decent place.

I agree. A pair of point & slot efficient mini-beatstick elite characters that simultaneously buff and are buffed by daemon princes will see some use, imo. The main difficulty, as with all of our various short ranged infantry heroes, is the lack of maneuverability & delivery options. With no actually good csm transports, getting these guys into combat with vulnerable targets will be difficult, and keeping them in aura range of units like venomcrawlers and daemon princes won't be much easier.

 

Just advance them upfield behind a Defiler or Maulerfiend, which they also buff. The Character rule means they can't be targeted first.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Side note for Obliterators and synergies:  Tzeentch Flickering Flames. Mark them for Tzeentch and put a changeling near a full unit of 3. 

You lose double-shoot but your guns will be wounding on 2's against most targets. 18 shots, hitting on 3's, could theoretically get them to hitting on 2's, RR1s, and wounding on 2's even with random damage on the guns could grind a unit off the table or deal real damage to a tank. 

[ThatOneMarshal]

I don’t know how strong the greater possessed actually is but for transportation could you just warptime him up the board?

[Sonoftherubric21]

I don’t know how strong the greater possessed actually is but for transportation could you just warptime him up the board?

 

The problem with that is the opportunity cost. If you warptime him you aren't doing it to anyone else. Given that he is movement 7 and can run I think he will actually be fine overall, though wing options wouldve been golden lol. 

[Khornestar]

A power to turn a unit into a daemon could be pretty sweet, assuming it provides a 5+ invulnerable save. Daemon Berzerkers... *drool* Once again wishlisting, but if such a thing were possible, they could be buffed to S8 with an GP and bloodmaster in their midst. Probably why it won’t be possible.

[Sonoftherubric21]

A power to turn a unit into a daemon could be pretty sweet, assuming it provides a 5+ invulnerable save. Daemon Berzerkers... *drool* Once again wishlisting, but if such a thing were possible, they could be buffed to S8 with an GP and bloodmaster in their midst. Probably why it won’t be possible.

 

The 30k Word Bearers have a power that does that, makes the unit "daemons" for a turn and gives a 5++. It would make sense given the current theme of Daemonkin and buffs for Daemons. 

 

It would certainly boost the heck out of chaos space marines. 

 

The spell list for Maleific has PARAGRAPHS of explanations for rules. One of them is definitely a "roll a D3" as you can zoom in and see the 1/2/3 in the list. 

 

I imagine at least ONE of these is a buff for daemons or the mentioned "become daemons" I will be shocked if we don't get at least one. 

[Dallas Drake]

I love all the models, especially the CSMs, bar the Oblits. The Obliterators don't look like they are infected with a daemonic virus that makes them mutate and meld with their weapons; they look like beefcakes with guns. I thought it odd to give one a Centurion foot - those suits have only been around since M37, so oddly specific to make a model for a Renegade Centurion turned Obliterator. They honestly look more like Helbrutes than Obliterators.

 

I agree on the Oblits. They look like smaller Helbrutes, which isn't necesserily a bad thing, it's just not how I imagined an Oblit. Though with some decent green stuff work they could look suitibly mutated, I would've prefered mutated weapons instead of just meltaguns, bolters, and plasmacannons stuck on them.

 

 

As far as individual characters go I think that for an elite slot 2 per slot choice....the Greater Possessed surely are not bad and have a decent place. Ws 2+, 5 swings at str 6, DTtFE, and ap -2, D3 damage per hit is not shabby at all for a unit that almost assuredly will be 60-80 points. If they are in that range they will be perfect and easily able to kill anything near their point cost given they are effectively tiny daemon princes. Able to put out threat on a fair amount of targets. 

 

Also please bare in mind that the "lack of gear" for master of possession means basically nothing.... No one takes a sorcerer/pskyer for their "gear" choices, you take them for the lores and buff/debuff/damage output ability coming from that lore. 

 

I would be willing to bet that at least 1-2 of the spells in the Malelific lore are going to be "daemon buff" spells OR even possibly giving out the "daemon" keyword given the context regarding the models supposed use as well as the "daemonkin" theme going on. I keep seeing it all over the internet "The master of possession is trash!" When you literally *cannot* make that judgement without seeing the thing that makes him worth using, dang lore! (tirade over, sorry about that!)

 

I really hope Malefic or something in the release does something to buff Possessed. IMO they should have an option to do 2d3 attacks or do d3 damage etc, that way there would be reason to take them over Berserkers.

 

What are people thoughts for the best Legion to run these new releases? Black Legion or Renegades?

[Prot]

I think to a degree we have to remember a lot of this would be written a very long time ago. I keep thinking of Forgebane when the Armiger Warglaive came out and the rules were meh, and the cost was far too high.

 

Next thing you know it got a sweep attack and became cheaper than a Redemptor dreadnought. 

 

I think this is a box set that I'm looking at as mostly a cool factor release. As weird as it sounds I'm looking very forward to the actual marines.  I actually want to make Havok squads with Autocannons and all kinds of marine configs (even if I have to adjust what weapons they are holding).

 

I want to load up multiple rhinos/Landraider and see how much damage I can do.  I hate to admit it because I may regret it, but I'm using this as an excuse to pull out my squad of possessed as well. 

[Khornestar]

Havocs, basic CSM, Possessed, terminators... this overall release will breathe new life into all of them, even with the same rules as they have currently. They just look so damn good, I don’t even care what their rules are in terms of just buying them all.

 

What I’m most concerned about is continued lack of parts included in the boxes. Thinking about terminators, there is still IMO no possible way everything will be there. Same with Havocs, as we’ve seen the devastator box. Still, if “all it takes” is buying 2 boxes for 4 of each gun, that’s super cool with me.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I think to a degree we have to remember a lot of this would be written a very long time ago. I keep thinking of Forgebane when the Armiger Warglaive came out and the rules were meh, and the cost was far too high.

 

Next thing you know it got a sweep attack and became cheaper than a Redemptor dreadnought. 

 

I think this is a box set that I'm looking at as mostly a cool factor release. As weird as it sounds I'm looking very forward to the actual marines.  I actually want to make Havok squads with Autocannons and all kinds of marine configs (even if I have to adjust what weapons they are holding).

 

I want to load up multiple rhinos/Landraider and see how much damage I can do.  I hate to admit it because I may regret it, but I'm using this as an excuse to pull out my squad of possessed as well. 

 

I agree with this, it may be an "overtime adaptation" thing as you have said for the likes of Oblits, Venom, and Master. 

 

I will be doing something similar with my marines, I will do havocs and chosen and marines loaded with special weapons and the like. Hopefully the MPPK comes with tons of weapons and bits. 

[Exilyth]

A defiler followed by venomcrawlers is the chaos version of a duck followed by ducklings. *shudders*

 

 

Could make a nice mini stalk tank for a LatD/R&H/traitor guard army.