Panzer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I'd actually take a Venomcrawler over a base Predator to be honest. Versus a Predator maybe. But the point remains a Venomcrawler has 2 lackluster guns and less melee output than a similarly-priced Maulerfiend (w/Lasher Tendrils ofc). So the Venomcrawler tries to be a generalist but doesn't have as good weapons as Defiler or a Forgefiend (which granted will be about 30 points more), and not as good melee output as a Defiler or a Maulerfiend. So IMHO it doesn't quite fit a role as it does two things decently instead of one thing really well. That said though I'm getting 2 with the two halves of Shadowspear I'm getting this weekend, so I'm going to be trying it out. It could be better at smaller points where you don't have the points to specialize in shooting and melee, so having something that can fill both roles could be beneficial. Yeah but he has both so he can shoot while on his way into melee unlike the Maulerfiend who is basically useless until it reaches melee. That's something many people tend to ignore. Comparing it to the Defiler is valid though and I'm not trying to say the Venomcrawler is good as it is. Just that it's not terrible. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I'd actually take a Venomcrawler over a base Predator to be honest. Versus a Predator maybe. But the point remains a Venomcrawler has 2 lackluster guns and less melee output than a similarly-priced Maulerfiend (w/Lasher Tendrils ofc). So the Venomcrawler tries to be a generalist but doesn't have as good weapons as Defiler or a Forgefiend (which granted will be about 30 points more), and not as good melee output as a Defiler or a Maulerfiend. So IMHO it doesn't quite fit a role as it does two things decently instead of one thing really well. That said though I'm getting 2 with the two halves of Shadowspear I'm getting this weekend, so I'm going to be trying it out. It could be better at smaller points where you don't have the points to specialize in shooting and melee, so having something that can fill both roles could be beneficial. Yeah but he has both so he can shoot while on his way into melee unlike the Maulerfiend who is basically useless until it reaches melee. That's something many people tend to ignore. Comparing it to the Defiler is valid though and I'm not trying to say the Venomcrawler is good as it is. Just that it's not terrible. ^^ Oh absolutely! It also looks really cool, so it has that going for it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Strike Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 It is a good generalist, and if summoming wasn't mostly crap then his bonus would be better. Wish it was +1 to spells from the new discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I actually wish the +1 to summoning were replaced with the summoning psychic spell from the new lore. Being able to move (only because it's a psychic power that comes after the movement phase, but it should be a regular effect on the Venomcrawler) and not kill himself would make summoning at least a decent alternative compared to just taking a Daemon detachment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Shadowspear isn't available for preorder here (I missed the boat) but I'm kind of getting cold feet about getting it, right now. The marines are great but I'd prefer they all had bolters, and I'm not so sure about the Venomcrawler now. Am I crazy for thinking I should wait? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Shadowspear isn't available for preorder here (I missed the boat) but I'm kind of getting cold feet about getting it, right now. The marings are great but I'd prefer they all had bolters, and I'm not so sure abou the Venomcrawler now. Am I crazy for thinking I should wait? I don't think so. The models are cool but the rules are a bit lackluster. There are signs pointing to a 2.0 codex release for us on the horizon sometime (nothing guaranteed of course) so we could be getting some improvements in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekhitar Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I imagine vig 2 will have specialist detachments that boost the box a bit. I am likely to convert my own master of possession, but I could see myself grabbing a crawler or two when they are released separately down the line. Love my daemon engines, and I bet they will end up with a points drop in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Shadowspear isn't available for preorder here (I missed the boat) but I'm kind of getting cold feet about getting it, right now. The marines are great but I'd prefer they all had bolters, and I'm not so sure about the Venomcrawler now. Am I crazy for thinking I should wait? Probably not crazy, no. New oblits and greater possessed seem decent, and the Master of Possession could easily be used as a regular sorcerer, which is solid. But CSMs aren't the best unit right now, and the models in the box aren't the best gear setup for them. And while you can convert a more favorable equipment loadout, my experience with the dark vengeance chosen tells me that won't exactly be the easiest modeling project to pull off. And IMO the jury is still out on whether the venomcrawler will be worth fielding at all, given all the competition in our book for the role of 'medium mixed melee/shooty walker'. Overall, I don't think it's a bad box for chaos, if you can find a loyalist player to split it with, but hardly compulsory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triszin Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 YA'LL need to go to News and rumor. Chaos lord discordant. my word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 VINDICATION IS BEAUTIFUL!!!! So yeah that thing I said about daemon engines: Watch my list go Just got FAR more beastly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/13/chaos-space-marines-focus-the-lord-discordant/ New Lord Discordant buffs daemon engines, finally! Now this guy could make the Venomcrawler shine since it can move forward and fire without taking a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourged Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I have never seen such beauty until this day. I no longer want to build a Daemonkin and daemon engine warband. I need to build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Viability will of course depend on final stats and points cost, but I find this guy to be incredibly promising. Accuracy is the big failing of daemon engines generally, so an HQ that buffs the accuracy of these units, especially one mounted on a platform that, presumably, will have the mobility necessary to allow your daemon engines to benefit from the aura without constraining their own movement? That could actually do something meaningful for the faction. In addition to just looking amazing, this model has the potential both to be very good in itself and to significantly improve the viability of several units currently languishing on the borderline of playability. Plus the daemon engine / daemon forge / magitech / dark mechanicus visual & narrative theme in general is a particularly rich vein that’s long been begging for deeper exploration. That blend of the mechanical and the arcane - of heavily armored sci-fi tech and warped daemonic flesh all bound to a malign, inhuman intelligence - is an angle that allows Chaos Marines as a faction to really stand out from both their loyalist counterparts and their purely daemonic allies. So… yeah, I absolutely adore this unit, and have my fingers tightly crossed in the hopes that it gets a solid stat line and competitive points cost. Definitely the most exciting new chaos content I've seen out of the current wave so far, and that's coming from a black legion player who's been waiting for a new Abaddon model since forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketzer Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/03/13/chaos-space-marines-focus-the-lord-discordant/ New Lord Discordant buffs daemon engines, finally! Now this guy could make the Venomcrawler shine since it can move forward and fire without taking a penalty. I think I just had an evilgasm... this thing looks just awesome. Won't be able to pack him into my Worldeaters, but damn is this an impressive model! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 This thing is everything I want for my warband. As I'm new to this edition, does his aura mean an overcharged plasma Forgefiend can't hurt itself? I'm assuming he has the Daemon Engine keyword himself...if so that would benefit his own autocannon, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Ectoplasma cannons cannot overcharge and do not overheat. And if he does, then yes...but I think the baleflamer is the better option, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furnace Lord Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Ah, thank you. Still learning the ropes, I'm afraid. I know there's been discussion that the Venomcrawler isn't worth it compared to the Maulerfiend. If this character hits the right price point do you think he changes that at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonoftherubric21 Posted March 13, 2019 Author Share Posted March 13, 2019 Ah, thank you. Still learning the ropes, I'm afraid. I know there's been discussion that the Venomcrawler isn't worth it compared to the Maulerfiend. If this character hits the right price point do you think he changes that at all? I personally would say yes. The Venoms are every so slightly overpriced but your effectively talking about 6 melee attacks on 3+ to hit and 2d3 str 8 (easily 9) shots, so effectively las-cannons with a greater possessed behind them) at this point will be hitting on 3's while fully mobile. Its clear this guy was made with the venoms in mind and I think its got solid potential. couple of venoms, couple of defilers, start rolling up the table plastering things then when combat is joined this guy has potential to anchor that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Ah, thank you. Still learning the ropes, I'm afraid. I know there's been discussion that the Venomcrawler isn't worth it compared to the Maulerfiend. If this character hits the right price point do you think he changes that at all? Absolutely, and I have been on the fence on the Venom. Mostly because getting two mediocre guns don't mean much when you hit on 4s. With this guy, however, it hits on 3s and can move up and fire without penalty since it's weapons are Assault. And that's not getting into it's melee. It's still not as dedicated as a Forgefiend for shooting (which btw this guy plus a MoP sitting in the backfield with 2 Forgefiend also seems legit) or the Maulerfiend for melee, but unlike a Defiler it can move and still shoot on 3s versus 4s. Even that means the Defiler can advance and not be terrible or stand still and be pretty good. It definitely puts the Venomcrawler into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheex Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Run him with two Decimators with twin Soulburner Petards for 8D3 mortal wounds hitting on 2+... Venomcrawlers suddenly got quite tempting. Actually, all daemon engines just got really tempting! Fully expecting a daemon engine specialist detachment in Vigilus II, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I don't really see why people see the venomcrawler guns as lackluster. 2D3 S8 assault shots that can be buffed in a multiple of ways isn't that bad. the MoP and the new warpsmith guy walking around in a bunch will make a few venomcrawlers nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Talarian Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Mentions his part Warpsmith. Wonder if he can heal himself/has the Warpsmith keyword. With a MoP nearby he could potentially heal 1D3 +3 -1 a turn? And if he gets similar rules to the venomcrawler, maybe an additional +2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayniac Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I don't really see why people see the venomcrawler guns as lackluster. 2D3 S8 assault shots that can be buffed in a multiple of ways isn't that bad. the MoP and the new warpsmith guy walking around in a bunch will make a few venomcrawlers nasty. Mostly it's because anything you would use to buff the Venomcrawler can buff Maulerfiend/Forgefiend/Defiler which do a more specialized job and also aren't seen competitively. However, the Lord Discordant seems to change a lot of that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Another question is...will he have the daemon engine keyword himself since he's riding one? :) In the WHC article it's stated that: If you’re itching to start your horde of Daemon Engines early, well, you’re in luck! The Lord Discordant synergises amazingly with the Chaos force found in Shadowspear ...but there is only one daemon engine in that box, and if he synergises with the other stuff...how does he do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excessus Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I don't really see why people see the venomcrawler guns as lackluster. 2D3 S8 assault shots that can be buffed in a multiple of ways isn't that bad. the MoP and the new warpsmith guy walking around in a bunch will make a few venomcrawlers nasty. Mostly it's because anything you would use to buff the Venomcrawler can buff Maulerfiend/Forgefiend/Defiler which do a more specialized job and also aren't seen competitively. However, the Lord Discordant seems to change a lot of that... They're used for different things though. The venomcrawler will blast things without negative modifiers as it walks up the board into melee, it can do both. The other ones are kinda crap in the areas they aren't specialized for. And definitely now with the discordant. With a baleflamer and debuffing ability he'll want to move up the board as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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