Vigilus Falls, What next?(Here be spoilers)

[Ishagu]

What do you want? The collapse of the Imperium? A Chaos victory? Nids eat everyone?

 

Get real. The setting exists to facilitate as much conflict as possible between as many faction as possible. The story should not resolve any of it with any sort of finality.

[Brother Casman]

Okay.

 

I may have banged on this drum before, but if you don't like the stories the Studio is telling us, we have the Fan Fiction, the Liber, and even Homegrown Rules for devising stories of your own. It's a big universe; carve out a space to play in.

[Marshal Rohr]

What do you want? The collapse of the Imperium? A Chaos victory? Nids eat everyone?

 

Get real. The setting exists to facilitate as much conflict as possible between as many faction as possible. The story should not resolve any of it with any sort of finality.

Again, you miss the point. The main plot doesn’t have to resolve anything. The micro plots like vigilus lose nothing by ending with finality. The fact you can’t see the difference is unsurprising.

 

Example of a good Micro Plot ending in finality: Raid on Kastorel Novem. The Imperium lost without ending the macro plot of the orks in Octarius.

[Ishagu]

Vigilus isn't a micro plot though, is it? It's a major campaign between half the galactic powers that dictates the ability for armies to deploy through the great rift.

Besides, it hasn't been concluded. GW have hinted at part 3 anyways.

[Marshal Rohr]

That’s still a micro plot. Armageddon was a micro plot. Ichar was a microplot.

[Ishagu]

So Cadia was a micro plot? It's been around longer but it's still only a tiny fraction of the universe.

 

1/1,000,000th of the Imperial planters lol

[Marshal Rohr]

Cadia is a definitive microplot in a larger narrative. What happens there has lasting consequences on the rest of the galaxy while containing its own narratives. Except, now it’s gone and had no meaningful impact on the larger narrative, making anyone wonder why it mattered at all.

[Ishagu]

No meaningful impact? Time distortions and daemomic invasions anywhere at any time? Tau fleets on the other side of the Galaxy?

 

That's pretty darn meaningful. And you know what it does? It better facilitates conflict between any faction at any time.

 

And this is the main purpose and goal of the setting. There is only war.

[Marshal Rohr]

That's not the case at all. Nothing has changed. Tau Fleets on the other side of the galaxy is probably the worst example you could've used because its so comically transparent an attempt to make everyone fight everyone instead of doing the right thing and accepting stellar geography as a limiting factor. Daemons already were attacking anywhere at anytime before, without the Rift. The rift was an additive that added nothing. None of this has to do with the main problem of Vigilus and what the studio will do next, either, because you continue to miss the point (probably intentionally because you know you do't have any legs to stand on like the 2 million primaris assertion). The studio writes these stories and they don't matter as soon as they are done. It would be like if Rogue One was made, and then not only do they never mention the Death Star Plans again, they retcon Episode IV so that Leia isn't pursued by Vader and Luke Skywalker was just this amazing pilot fighting for the rebellion the whole time. The don't let their stories interact in anyway beyond references that play no role. Even cliffhanger novels and movies end with a finality that impacts the next chapter. 

[Ishagu]

If you want stories with huge impact for their characters read the novels.

 

Campaign books exist for thematic campaign wars between factions. They make a difference but the status quo of thr setting can't be altered too drastically. Calgar fought Abaddon. That's pretty awesome. Moments like these are great.

[Marshal Rohr]

Again, its not about altering the status quo. Its about writing good stories that feel important while contributing gravitas to the overall setting by making the status quo deeper. 

 

 

 

Calgar fought Abaddon. That's pretty awesome.

 

Really, because I finished Vigilus Ablaze last night and it sure as :cuss didn't feel awesome. It didn't even feel real. It felt like the description of two people playing the game as if it was a battle report explaining why Abaddon couldn't quite get Calgar down to zero wounds. 

[Ishagu]

So what did you want to happen?

[Xwingt65]

Again, its not about altering the status quo. Its about writing good stories that feel important while contributing gravitas to the overall setting by making the status quo deeper. 

 

 

Calgar fought Abaddon. That's pretty awesome.

 

Really, because I finished Vigilus Ablaze last night and it sure as :cuss didn't feel awesome. It didn't even feel real. It felt like the description of two people playing the game as if it was a battle report explaining why Abaddon couldn't quite get Calgar down to zero wounds. 

Uhm. You know that they just made a new Calgar model right? Expecting to have him die a few months later, seems to be more on you, than on GW writing.

 

As it is now Calgar is a physically diminished man, and who knows what the Vigilus campaign has left of emotional scars, that can be mined in future books.

[Marshal Rohr]

 

Again, its not about altering the status quo. Its about writing good stories that feel important while contributing gravitas to the overall setting by making the status quo deeper. 

 

Calgar fought Abaddon. That's pretty awesome.

 

Really, because I finished Vigilus Ablaze last night and it sure as didn't feel awesome. It didn't even feel real. It felt like the description of two people playing the game as if it was a battle report explaining why Abaddon couldn't quite get Calgar down to zero wounds. 

Uhm. You know that they just made a new Calgar model right? Expecting to have him die a few months later, seems to be more on you, than on GW writing.

 

As it is now Calgar is a physically diminished man, and who knows what the Vigilus campaign has left of emotional scars, that can be mined in future books.

 

 

I didn't expect him to die, they didn't need them to fight. That is the issue.

[Ishagu]

At the end of Vigilus? Or during it?

 

And why wouldn't Calgar fight Abaddon? He isn't just a general but a superlative warrior who bested an Eldar Avatar.

[Marshal Rohr]

As for Vigilus, I didn't think Vigilus should happen at all. The whole premise is a construction and not native to setting. They could've done any number of things. If we accept Vigilus had to happen, it shouldn't have ended with a fistfight nor should it have included every chapter, race, and legion in existence. A large battlegroup of unknown chapters under Calgar wouldve been fine. Instead it was every important chapter ever.

 

It's a poor narrative choice. They could've done any number of things that would've been better.

[Guest MistaGav]

I'd like to see more smaller campaign style books that focus on a few key factions instead of trying to cram everyone in Dawn of War style. One or two books that could give the big Xenos factions some more of the spotlight as a big villain for once.

Personally I'm holding out for some campaign involving the Fallen, Dark Angels, the successor chapters and the Custodes. The story is building up and up and it feels almost like it's coming.

[Panzer]

It just comes down to that GW usually writes stories with too much at risk to follow through with it. If they'd write more reasonably scenarios they could do more than the usual stalmate crap.

[HandsWithLegs]

One thing I noticed when I was reading through the book, the moon got knocked out of it's proper orbit by the Void Claw and is going to crash into the planet at some point in the not too distant future. Even it they rebuild the planet and win the wars, it probably won't matter once the moon hits

[Dosjetka]

=][= Thread re-opened. Any personal attacks and other poo-flinging will be dealt with meltaguns. =][=

[HandsWithLegs]

I'm curious where the storyline with the fallen is going. In the book its not clear weather the DA or fallen win the fight in their hidden fortress or who takes the big gravity weapon, only that when the White Scars show up the weapon's critical components are all gone and there is no bodies or blood to be seen

 

Also I thought it was really funny how the White Scars all got stasis bombed mid charge

[Sete]

Dark Angels being meme material again.

[Scribe]

As for Vigilus, I didn't think Vigilus should happen at all. The whole premise is a construction and not native to setting. They could've done any number of things. If we accept Vigilus had to happen, it shouldn't have ended with a fistfight nor should it have included every chapter, race, and legion in existence. A large battlegroup of unknown chapters under Calgar wouldve been fine. Instead it was every important chapter ever.

 

It's a poor narrative choice. They could've done any number of things that would've been better.

 

This is again why FW is better at these kinds of things. GW ends up trying to just push everyone in, so that you, and you, and you, and yes Timmy you, all need to buy it. 

 

Dont look to GW for the literary contribution, or 'deepening' of the fluff. Just take the models, and hope ADB or FW or French, or Wraight, make something out of it.

[Ishagu]

It's also completely optional

[Arkangilos]

A good example is the Badaab war. The traitors clearly lost. It wasn’t a stalemate. And it had lasting effects. Because of that the Renegade Red Corsairs or whatever was made.

 

Vigilus could have fallen and given Abbadon an actual empire that stretched on both sides. He could have taken a few sectors. Then it could have created more stories of the back and forth of each empire.

 

You also would have had the opportunity for differing sentinels on both sides. You have the more unified group of defenders that have a more Eastern Roman militaries guarding the Terran side, and a more Feudal “Knights Watch” on the Nihilis side, and they never can communicate because Abbadon controls the in between.

 

With the whole new Chaos Empire you can have legit recruitment for the chaos legions, and legitimate chaos guard armies.