Kill Team: Elites - initial reactions/thoughts?

[Brother Eleysium]

I'm late to the party, but this announcement brings a lot of excitement my way. I have been wanting to use my Custodes as well as Astartes Termies in KT since launch, and now it appears as though that option is going to be there. I really hope to see Sternguard and Vanguards for Space Marines as well. 

 

From a Narrative standpoint(which is how most of us at my local store play)Elite units taking place in important special missions make more sense than sending a rank and file guardsmen. Specialized units are specialized for a reason. :)  We also play KT games up to 200 pts sometimes just to add a little more flavor, so that could be another cause for excitement among our group. 

 

All in all, I think it's going to be a great addition to an already great system. It should enrich and flesh out the current Kill Teams, especially Chaos Space Marines whom desperately need it IMO. 

[Black Knight]

Has anyone been able to see if Deathwatch get the whole Space Marine rosta? On WHC they only mentioned terminator captains/librarians/chaplains.

[Marshal Valkenhayn]

I'm just excited that my Old Marines might get combat specialists now. Company/Vanguard vets are exactly what I needed, to say nothing of the goofy fun of bringing out a classic terminator. I haven't ran classic terms since 8th dropped.

[Marshal Arthur]

They confirmed deathwatch is getting Terminators and vanguard veterans along with the terminator commanders. Edited May 11, 2019 by Marshal Arthur

[Black Knight]

They confirmed deathwatch is getting Terminators and vanguard veterans along with the terminator commanders.

 

So none of the Shadow spear items? I was wondering if Ebay was going to get some money from me this weekend.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

The killteam index is here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/03/kill-team-elites-contents-focusgw-homepage-post-1/

 

You will see that it includes the Master of Execution, the Greater Possessed and the Dark Appostle (and groupies) from Shadowspear.

[Black Knight]

I am talking about Deathwatch, there are no entries for them. I know they are getting the terminator characters but I wanted to know if they got the Imperial Shadowspear models.

[Marshal Arthur]

They do not get the shadowspear models.

[Black Knight]

Thanks for the verification, that saves some money then :)

[DadJokes]

Do I need to pick up commanders to make buying the elites book worthwhile?

 

There seems to be a lot of commanders specific content in there...

[Panzer]

Do I need to pick up commanders to make buying the elites book worthwhile?

 

There seems to be a lot of commanders specific content in there...

 

Definitely. The main points about Elites are the additional units for the regular rooster and the subfaction rules. The Commanders are just nice to have and I for one don't plan to ever use any Commanders in my Kill Team matches considering how unbalanced they are.

[Stoic Raptor]

If you don't play Commander level games, there's still a lot of useful stuff in there, depending on your faction.  Chapter Tactics (or their equivalent), new stratagems, some new non-Commander units.

There's still a lot of stuff that will enhance your normal games.

[Brother Eleysium]

If you don't play Commander level games, there's still a lot of useful stuff in there, depending on your faction.  Chapter Tactics (or their equivalent), new stratagems, some new non-Commander units.

There's still a lot of stuff that will enhance your normal games.

I've been watching some Battler Reports today, and this is spot on. To me this has really fleshed out the game, and added new armies like Custodes(whom I can't wait to play)as well as a lot of options. It also offers a slight point increase of 25 pts. I personally cannot wait after what I have seen. 

[RandyB]

All I need now is bikes, and I can run Kill Team Cassius as a Command Roster, and write up Overkill as a Kill Team Narrative campaign.

[Ripper.McGuirl]

All I need now is bikes, and I can run Kill Team Cassius as a Command Roster, and write up Overkill as a Kill Team Narrative campaign.

I'm thinking the same thing about the Death Masque campaign.

[Dosjetka]

I was a little worried about Eliminators being able to target hidden models with their sniper rifles but the fact that they need an unmodified roll of 6 to hit their hidden target makes it a lot less of a worry than I initially imagined. It then dawned on me that T'au, with access to XV8 Crisis Battlesuits, also have a similar weapon in the form of the airbursting fragmentation projector but there too you need an unmodified roll of 6 to hit. I'm relieved. Good move, design team.

 

That said, the +2 to to-hit rolls for the bolt sniper rifle, combined with the already good 3+ BS and ignoring the long range negative modifier, is kinda disgusting in the Kill Team setting at first glance...

Edited May 14, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Panzer]

T'au already had a weapon to target units without needing LoS before Elites with the DS8 turret and the Smart Missile System. So I wasn't really concerned and I'm not surprised that you need 6s to hit. ^^

[Dosjetka]

I'll admit that I hadn't really looked at T'au in Kill Team before now so I didn't realise they already had that option.

 

What are your thoughts on the Eliminators (as a whole)?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Panzer]

I'll admit that I hadn't really looked at T'au in Kill Team before now so I didn't realise they already had that option.

 

What are your thoughts on the Eliminators (as a whole)?

 

I can't really say anything about them since I haven't seen their rules yet. I only know what you wrote here. :P

But +2 to-hit, ignoring the long range modifier and shooting without line of sight at 36" sounds a bit much? It basically guarantees to hit anything on a 2+ at worst even if they are obscured unless they are completely hidden but even then they aren't completely safe either. That they have only one S4 shot barely matters if they are practically guaranteed to hit anyway.

And if they are out in the open and within 18" they can just switch to the AP-2 D1d3 profile which is basically the same as taking out the shotgun if the enemy comes to close (an 18" shotgun that is).

How many points are they?

[Dosjetka]

Had another (proper) look at the bolt sniper rifle's profile and it's not so bad but still a strong option. The rifle itself ignores the long range penalty (as do all sniper rifles) and every time you fire, you select one of three ammo types:

• Executioner: 36" Heavy 1 S4 AP-2 D1d3 with a mortal wound inflicted on a to-wound roll of 6+ in addition to normal damage;
• Mortis: 36" Heavy 1 S4 AP-1 D1 with the possibility of targeting models out of LOS - if the model is in LOS, +2 to to-hit rolls, but if it is out of LOS, you only hit on a natural (unmodified) roll of 6;
• Hyperfrag: 36" Heavy 1d3 S4 AP0 D1.

So not all ammo types can target models that are out of LOS, which is what I initially thought was the case (mea culpa).

 

The cost of an Eliminator with the rifle (which is free) is two points less than a XV25 Stealth Suit Shas'vre with burst cannon.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka

[Disruptor_fe404]

S4 shooting at the end of the day, is still S4 shooting. It's basically something I try to minimise on my Roster...

 

Still, the Eliminator Sergeant offers a durable and evasive option for Leader. Might be worth trying, depending on the points cost.

[Panzer]

Had another (proper) look at the bolt sniper rifle's profile and it's not so bad but still a strong option. The rifle itself ignores the long range penalty (as do all sniper rifles) and every time you fire, you select one of three ammo types:

• Executioner: 36" Heavy 1 S4 AP-2 D1d3 with a mortal wound inflicted on a to-wound roll of 6+ in addition to normal damage;
• Mortis: 36" Heavy 1 S4 AP-1 D1 with the possibility of targeting models out of LOS - if the model is in LOS, +2 to to-hit rolls, but if it is out of LOS, you only hit on a natural (unmodified) roll of 6;
• Hyperfrag: 36" Heavy 1d3 S4 AP0 D1.

So not all ammo types can target models that are out of LOS, which is what I initially thought was the case (mea culpa).

 

The cost of an Eliminator with the rifle (which is free) is two points less than a XV25 Stealth Suit Shas'vre with burst cannon.

 

 

Oh I see. Yeah targeting models out of LOS with Executioner round would've been way over the top lol.

Sounds reasonable for the Eliminator I'd say. He'll be a useful asset and definitely replace any of my Intercessor snipers (especially ever since the long range penalty applies to the 30" krak grenade) but with just one shot at S4 he'll often enough fail to wound or punch through the armour at AP-1.

That being said I'm not particularly interested in the Executioner round in Kill Team considering there's also the option of Suppressors now which do the shooting at targets out in the open better. ^^

[Dosjetka]

S4 shooting at the end of the day, is still S4 shooting. It's basically something I try to minimise on my Roster...

S4 AP-1 shooting against T3 5+ models (such as my usual Neophyte Leader) still hurts. We don't all play Space Marines.

 

Still, the Eliminator Sergeant offers a durable and evasive option for Leader. Might be worth trying, depending on the points cost.

He's 3 points more than an Intercessor Sergeant and 2 points more than a Reiver Sergeant (with rifle).

Oh I see. Yeah targeting models out of LOS with Executioner round would've been way over the top lol.

Sounds reasonable for the Eliminator I'd say. He'll be a useful asset and definitely replace any of my Intercessor snipers (especially ever since the long range penalty applies to the 30" krak grenade) but with just one shot at S4 he'll often enough fail to wound or punch through the armour at AP-1.

That being said I'm not particularly interested in the Executioner round in Kill Team considering there's also the option of Suppressors now which do the shooting at targets out in the open better. ^^

Against Space Marines, sure. But against anything like T'au, Guard, GSC, etc. the chances of killing the target will be much higher.

Ah, the Suppressors. Haven't really looked at them. Should I be worried? :sweat:

[Panzer]

1 shot is still 1 shot regardless of the Toughness of the target. Hitting on 2+, wounding on 3+ and leaving a 5+ armour (against T'au and Skitarii) still means that you need ~3 shots to get a wound through on average. And against chaff you are likely to kill some but there are lots more models on the board.

 

Suppressors come with a really long ranged S7 AP-2 D2 gun with 2 shots each. It may not ignore the long range penalty but its short range is at 24" so it doesn't really matter anyway. Oh and it's super mobile at M12 with FLY too.

[Disruptor_fe404]

 

S4 shooting at the end of the day, is still S4 shooting. It's basically something I try to minimise on my Roster...

 

S4 AP-1 shooting against T3 5+ models (such as my usual Neophyte Leader) still hurts. We don't all play Space Marines. ;)

 

Still, the Eliminator Sergeant offers a durable and evasive option for Leader. Might be worth trying, depending on the points cost.

 

He's 3 points more than an Intercessor Sergeant and 2 points more than a Reiver Sergeant (with rifle).

As someone who has S4 shooting, I'm generally ambivalent about it. :lol:

 

That price isn't too bad, but it sounds like I'll still be using my Scout Sergeant as Leader.

 

Suppressors though. There's an option I'm really looking forward to trialling!