Time of madness Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Anyone had success running an almost all terminator army? Has anyone come up with all terminator lists? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I feel termies are just lacking in ability and number. Also call me a proxying bastard, but you'd be better just running custodes termies as a full blown counts as I reckon. You can have the modeling fun, with the rules that Termies should naturally have! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 It can work vs. certain lists and opponents, but in general I'd say it's a pretty weak army that lack the tools to deal with specific threats. Regular SM-terminators are probably the worst of the bunch to do this sort of list with.You'll probably be better of with Thousand Sons/Grey Knights/Custodes, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I run themed lists quite often. The key is to get the right balance between the theme and usefulness as the more you play to your theme, the more one dimensional it becomes. A Terminator list requires CP so you'll need a Battalion to generate them. Scouts (i.e 1st and 10th Company forces) have been talked about by GW (well, in a few older White Dwarfs) since 3rd edition, but it's up to you. Are you taking transports? Only they will eat up your points. How will you support them to plug the holes in your list? More points gone... Personally I'd look to a Battalion and then a Vanguard for the Terminators, with the characters in TDA too (not necessary but it meets the theme). Maybe a Dreadnought too if I'm taking a Stormraven for delivery. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275494 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 In case of the Custodes, the upgrade in points from regular Guardians is worth it - and not all that expensive since a Guardian is so darn pricey in the first place. A C:SM Terminator is 21pts with a mandatory 9pts for a Fist and 2pts for a Storm Bolter. Cost of the weapons aside, a Veteran costs you 14pts. So what do you get for the 50% price hike upwards? Deep Strike, a 2+, a 5++, a second W and -1" of movement. I think that's ok for 7pts. It's a nice upgrade from a Veteran. Only you'd never put Fists on a full 5 man Squad of Veterans, and here's where the problems start: Termies die to the ubiquitous multi-damage weapon like flies. You don't have the '5 Fists on 10 Wounds'-balance that way. And for all the 7pts buy you, they still don't fix the inherent problems of C:SM: bodies too expensive, guns have but little volume of shots and even less tank-hunting capabilities. So basically, running Terminators is a choice you make for fun, not to win. Running an ALL Terminators army is something you do for uncanny amounts of fun, but not to win. If you manage to get the 50% of your points you need on the table in the enemies face undamaged, DSing the other half and trying to get into Melee asap might be viable. You'd need Metal Bawkses 'cause a Terminator is still only T4, but if you commit to decimating your enemies numbers to keep him from scoring, you might have a fighting chance. Overall, I'd recommend having a Battalion at least. As much as I like trying to table my opponent (Nope, hardly ever works, why are you asking?), it's Objectives that win games in the end and - I've written that somewhere already just yesterday - if your Termie Squad has 3 guys left and there's 3 cultists nearby, that objective is theirs. You need some Troops, especially in the backfield, 'cause you don't want over 150pts worth of Terminators sitting on a backfield objective doing nothing. I've got two boxes of Termies waiting to be painted, I'll have to get to it one of these days. I love the models, ugly as they may be, and I really want to run them. Screw winning, fun's where it's at And hey, we might score a few wins after all... Have you thought about what Chapter you want to make them? Me, I've decided to add my Termies to my Templars just because re-rolling a Charge seems like a good idea to prevent my expensive unit from slacking off, especially if I DS them in... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Let's not talk about Custodes here, stand in or no. I'm a purist. Terminators build a theme that is still popular to this day and one day I WILL build an all 1st Company force. I think an all Terminator army is a challenge we should strive to support as much as possible. Let's do it here! Now, terms... Are we counting vehicles and Dreadnoughts in all Terminator armies? That opens up many an option but is it pure enough for folk here? You can get quite a few Terminators into a 1750pts list with no vehicles in the list. I suspect you'll need plenty of characters to support them though as it increases your damage output. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Well, with Terminator Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, two Terminator variants AND the HH patterns on top of that, you could legally take far more Terminators than 2000pts could hold For me, that means that a *pure* Terminator list should have nothing but Terminators. I too feel that it might be wise to forgo a tad of fluff though and have at least one Captain join the first company Captain for that fight (old brothers in arms?) and maybe spam every other support character to have more buffs going on across the table. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickeh Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 There’s a thread in the Ultramarines forum dedicated exclusively to 1st company armies. I tried for a while at the start of 8th to get it to work, but they were never very successful. Maybe with points drops from CA and beta bolters they’ll be more effective. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275547 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Something to review ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I tried it at the beginning of this edition with a Spartan and couple Contemptor dreads... it was not competitive at all tbh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARK0SIAN Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 They’d shine if GW ever updated the Zone Mortalis rules for 8th. Until then I think an all terminator list will look cool and might be fun but it’s hard to imagine a list that can’t beat it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I've played Deathwing for decades and while it can be fun the only time it wins is out of shock value. Sometimes people make stupid mistakes because they aren't expecting it but they're only going to do it for one or two games before they remember that terminators die to weight of fire, and antitank weapons will melt them. If you really want to do it DA have a leg up due to having fancier terminators and the Deathwing Assault stratagem. You aren't going to have a lot of CP (probably four if you're running pure Deathwing!) so you get one good shot with DWA, so you have to make it count. If you can crush two units on the drop with it that'll be your game changer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275803 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteySödes Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Loganwing for SW is decent with the Logan/Arjak wolfguard buffs and various loadouts like SB/SS. Same issues largely apply though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275813 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I highly dont recommend buying lots of new models. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 I highly dont recommend buying lots of new models. So do I. But I've never been one to heed my own advice... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5275993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 We're all in the hobby and know full well buying of lots of new models is likely the thing that we all suffer from... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Would it maybe be more viable under deathwatch? Or do their HQ's not get access to TDA? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Would it maybe be more viable under deathwatch? Or do their HQ's not get access to TDA?Deathwatch SIA makes any Bolt weapon more viable - it's just that while the DW have Termie Caps, Chaps and Libbys, they can only take a max of 30 more bodies in TDA.Yeah, I don't think you'll ever fit all of those in a 2000pts list either ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTrans Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Would it maybe be more viable under deathwatch? Or do their HQ's not get access to TDA?Deathwatch SIA makes any Bolt weapon more viable - it's just that while the DW have Termie Caps, Chaps and Libbys, they can only take a max of 30 more bodies in TDA.Yeah, I don't think you'll ever fit all of those in a 2000pts list either Hmmm... Could you be sneaky (and deal with 'alas' some power armoured bodies in veteran squads and fill them with termies? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Well Terminators were considered unusable before CA18 due high point costs and even now that they came down in points you don't really see them around. I'd ask Custodes players how well it works for them to play with basically just the basic foot slogging Custodes as those are going into a very similar direction as Terminators but I guess I already know the answer. Terminators just aren't flexible, durable or killy enough to carry the game on their own unfortunately. ^^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighMarshalAmp Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Well Terminators were considered unusable before CA18 due high point costs and even now that they came down in points you don't really see them around. I'd ask Custodes players how well it works for them to play with basically just the basic foot slogging Custodes as those are going into a very similar direction as Terminators but I guess I already know the answer. Terminators just aren't flexible, durable or killy enough to carry the game on their own unfortunately. ^^ It works a helluva lot better - T5 means they shrug off what feels like more than an additional 1/6 of all the 401 hits.It takes a lot longer to kill them and they're Troops on top of that. I was surprised how not terribly they had done... Terminators however push every issue Marines have to the next level, it feels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Well Terminators were considered unusable before CA18 due high point costs and even now that they came down in points you don't really see them around. I'd ask Custodes players how well it works for them to play with basically just the basic foot slogging Custodes as those are going into a very similar direction as Terminators but I guess I already know the answer. Terminators just aren't flexible, durable or killy enough to carry the game on their own unfortunately. ^^ It works a helluva lot better - T5 means they shrug off what feels like more than an additional 1/6 of all the 401 hits.It takes a lot longer to kill them and they're Troops on top of that. I was surprised how not terribly they had done... Terminators however push every issue Marines have to the next level, it feels. I completely agree. Just saying that since we aren't exactly seeing Custodes lists like that being played successfully it's unlikely for a Terminator list to be successfull. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 You can have one or two squads be viable but not an entire detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Agreed with all above posters saying that you can't have a full detachment and be efficient. As 8th edition goes, I'm getting more and more the feeling that you need meat on the table. It seems that each army has been designed with the mind of : fill your Troops slots for your detachment as much as possible, fill up the rest with support units. That gives you sustain and meat. With the goal of ending the game turn 6 with still enough models (not points) on the table. Terminators have 2 weaknesses to be centerpieces imho: - Super expensive point per model, meaning you can only field 23-24 at 1000pts with an HQ - Hard countered due to high AP weapons and :cuss invulnerable save - In the case of Assault Terminators, no range capability and half of them having to be on the board in matched play rules, so you'll get mowed down piecemeal. Now if you have 10 Terminators as support for 30 Tacticals + HQ, that's actually an interesting choice. Your Tacticals can tank a few turns of shooting before popping the Terminators quite aggressively Turn 2 or Turn 3 to mess with the ennemy's battleplan. Some Terminators may die, sure. But they are a big threat that they have to deal with. Placed smartly, you divert 2 turns of shooting from the opponent away from your Tacticals which is that much time to buy for the objectives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276641 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted March 14, 2019 Share Posted March 14, 2019 Terminators are super slow too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/354502-all-terminator-army/#findComment-5276657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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