Book 9: Your thoughts

[Charlo]

If we are getting Terminator and ground bikes as our special units, I would love to see them interact to recreate the Dark Angels gameplay of old - bikes rushing in for the Terminator teleport assault.

That would make me happy

I can't see that happening personally.

 

That's (what it seems) to be two different wings in action, Deathwing and Ravenwing, ala 40k.

 

In 30k it seems that the DA operate as a generic legion and then will go all in on a single wing as per the battle dictates. However they may mix...

[Slips]

Manage your expectations because the more anyone hopes for X/Y/Z to be included in the book, the more disappointed they will ultimately be when they aren't.

 

And as we've seen with Blood Angels and Sanguinary Guard, FW are more inclined to give a legion a unit that doesnt have a direct equivalent (or plastic kit, take it however you want) with a few exceptions.

 

Dont go into it blindly proclaiming that "If FW doesnt do exactly x/y/z then they absolutely fail!" because thats pretty much something no company can really accomplish.

 

Keep expectations as low as possible because that way you can either never be disappointed because you werent expecting anything to begin with or be pleasantly surprised by something you werent expecting. Much healthier than buying the book and chucking it into a fire because it wasnt a 100% crystal clear reproduction of everything you had imagined the Dark Angels to be.

[StruManChu]

The difficulty is that until Book 9 drops, we don't actually know the full detail of what the Dark Angels Legion actually is, other than what we've been able to glean from the novels, because we don't have a Black Book to tell us what they are or were. As much as we might nitpick or disagree with their content, the Black Books are gospel, and that's just that.

 

Besides which, Terminators and Bikes, i.e the Deathwing and the Ravenwing, came to the forefront of the Dark Angels AFTER the Fall. The Fall was obviously a cataclysmic event for the I Legion, and the shame of it has echoed through the millennia. They shifted their entire modus operandi and culture in order to kill or capture the fallen so as to wipe the stain from their honour.

 

And that's the key. They shifted. They changed. To expect a focus on Terminators and Bikes is too limiting because the I Legion weren't desperately hiding the secret that killed their Primarch yet.

 

I love the idea of the First as a testbed Legion, because the Lion strikes me as a 'by any means' type of warlord. He's 100%, purely loyal to the Emperor, and is not at all concerned about the opinion or the approval of others. He's playing to an audience of one, and if the Emperor approves, that's enough. 'Loyalty is its on reward', after all. It makes sense, in my head, for the Lion and his Legion to make use of whatever weapons or wargear might get the job done, regardless of those method's palatability to the other legions.

[Noserenda]

Heh, id have said by spitting on the Sanguinary guard you probably wont see Deathwing and Ravenwing units tbh, especially the conveyed attitude towards that from Anuj which is a huge factor against the new team tbh...

Meh, on a positive not im hoping we see some releases for Sisters of Silence to make them a functional army given how utterly ignored they have been so far. One awkward/inflexible plastic kit, one near pointless upgrade kit and one sweet tank, rumoured Jetbikes, and some more upgrades/models for all their missing units before we get Custodes on... *rolls dice* Hover boards wielding... *rolls dice* Hadocks. :P 

[Allart01]

Hey, I'm not the one who said we'll be getting Terminators and bikes, which happen to be the two most iconic DA units since ever. You could even argue that It Is a bit unimaginative for pre-"shift" Dark Angels.

I Just added that at this point, I would personally like to see them interact for nostalgia's sake. I recognize it's unlikely to happen.

 

I don't really have any hard expectation. I know I'll be happy regardless.

Still, this seems like the right topic to let fantasy slip a little bit while we wait... That's all we have for the moment :)

[rendingon1+]

I think that DA definitely should get terminators for two reasons:

1. EVERY legion except for NL, RG and WB got them. (not counting Fists because even lacking legion specific terminator unit they have the best terminators in the game). Hell, even Scars have essentially two special terminator units

2. Fluff. That DA have deathwing terminators in 40k is irrevelant. 30k Deathwing and Dreadwing are trademark DA formations at the moment, Oone is (probably) pure Terminator force other has Terminator squads too. Holguin and his Deathwing appear to be Lion's favorites either.

 

As for bikes...no. I wouldn't even mind if instead of getting special unit we got more options to further customize veteran squad. Like: artificer armour, combat shields, more heavy/special weapons per squad, breacher shields etc. Some options could be Protocol dependant.

[StruManChu]

Ok, agreed on the Terminators. I should've been more specific about not getting 40k-style Deathwing/Knight-esque Terminators. A legion specific unit of Termies is basically a gimme, but I'd much rather they were Dreadwing flavoured than Deathwing, for the same reason as there isn't a 30k specific Sanguinary Guard unit.

[Captain_Krash]

More Night Lords stuff perhaps as well? Making them one of the more extremely fleshed out Traitor legions. Not just in models, but rites/special rules etc.

 

Krash

[noigrim]

Abandon ye all hope.

Wolves didn't get wulfen, angels sanguinary so the best you can do is expect nothing. They would rather release new resin units than make rules compatible with plastics.

I'm gonna use dawnbreakers as sanguinary btw

[Mango Polo]

Abandon ye all hope.

Wolves didn't get wulfen, angels sanguinary so the best you can do is expect nothing. They would rather release new resin units than make rules compatible with plastics.

I'm gonna use dawnbreakers as sanguinary btw

I mean, have you ever actually supported Forge World? I don't care where or how people get their Heresy on, but you can't then turn around and snap at FW for not giving you toys when you recast everything :D

 

I don't fault them for wanting to make sure that their range is unique and differentiated from GW's.

[ShadowCore67]

Any word on a 4th unit for DA? Every other newer legion has been getting 4 units.

 

The robots sound cool but that's not really what I was hoping for with DA. The rite mechanic and outriders and terminators seem interesting.

 

I really hope for they get rid of either the sword restriction or equal ws restriction on the legion rules.

[rendingon1+]

 

Abandon ye all hope.

Wolves didn't get wulfen, angels sanguinary so the best you can do is expect nothing. They would rather release new resin units than make rules compatible with plastics.

I'm gonna use dawnbreakers as sanguinary btw

I mean, have you ever actually supported Forge World? I don't care where or how people get their Heresy on, but you can't then turn around and snap at FW for not giving you toys when you recast everything

 

I don't fault them for wanting to make sure that their range is unique and differentiated from GW's.

 

I did in the past, when their prices were resonabale, miniatures range was decent and expanding + though not perfect in interacting with community, at the very least they were kind of honest and were not lying in the face. They only money they get from me now is for the black/red book and transfer sheets, anything else I can buy from Orient and truth be told...they have better customer service, price and quality than FW. Not ot mention bonuses, I stopped buying FW resin after I got an order with 5 sets of umbra bolters that were literally riddled with bubbles. Even though I've sent them 4 emails, all with picture,s got no response. Well, it was 5 emails actually in 5th i told them to :cuss themselves. 

[noigrim]

Plus you don't need to give the models a soap wash

[ShadowCore67]

 

 

 

 

Abandon ye all hope.

Wolves didn't get wulfen, angels sanguinary so the best you can do is expect nothing. They would rather release new resin units than make rules compatible with plastics.

I'm gonna use dawnbreakers as sanguinary btw

I mean, have you ever actually supported Forge World? I don't care where or how people get their Heresy on, but you can't then turn around and snap at FW for not giving you toys when you recast everything

 

I don't fault them for wanting to make sure that their range is unique and differentiated from GW's.

I did in the past, when their prices were resonabale, miniatures range was decent and expanding + though not perfect in interacting with community, at the very least they were kind of honest and were not lying in the face. They only money they get from me now is for the black/red book and transfer sheets, anything else I can buy from Orient and truth be told...they have better customer service, price and quality than FW. Not ot mention bonuses, I stopped buying FW resin after I got an order with 5 sets of umbra bolters that were literally riddled with bubbles. Even though I've sent them 4 emails, all with picture,s got no response. Well, it was 5 emails actually in 5th i told them to :cuss themselves.

Excuse my off topic ignorance but what is Orient?

[Slips]

Chinese recasters, of which we will no longer speak of since its off-topic.

[b1soul]

I do like the idea that the Ist Legion had a lot of Terran/Strife technology not fully sanctioned by Mars

[Taliesin]

From today's seminar apparently:

 

 

- The Dark Angels: Full background for Legion and Primarch, plus rules, new units, Rites of War and Hexagrammaton.

 

- Dark Technology: Background and rules making ancient relics available to a range of factions.

 

- The Dark Mechanicum: Full background and rules, including many new units.

 

- Engine War: Background on the Titan Legions and Knight Houses of the Thramas Crusade.

 

- The Thramas Crusade: Background and campaign rules for the Night Lords and their Dark Mechanicum allies and the Dark Angels fighting for control of the Eastern Fringe.

[StruManChu]

Pretty happy with all that, tbh. Great that they're saying (or appearing to say) that we'll get rules for the entire Hexagrammaton. Especially if that means I get my 'Destroyers as Non-Com Troops' in a Dreadwing RoW. :D

 

Interesting that they've got Dark Mech as allies of the Night Lords during the Thramas Crusade. It does make some sense that rebellious elements of the Mechanicum would be somewhat antagonistic towards the First Legion given their history as being armed from Terran forges rather than Mars, but I'd be keen to see how they write it.

 

Always happy to see more info about the Legios and Knight Houses, because it means the chances increase that I may finally get some more information about my beloved House Col'Khak. I just want to see their House Sigil, Forge World. That's all. Please.

[1ncarnadine]

I'm excited that they're including Titan Legions and Knight Houses, both plural! I guess this means we'll probably see Legio Ulricon make an appearance? But I wonder who served alongside the First Legion?

[SkimaskMohawk]

Night lords and more mechanicum. Sounds like my kind of book

[Gederas]

I'm excited that they're including Titan Legions and Knight Houses, both plural! I guess this means we'll probably see Legio Ulricon make an appearance? But I wonder who served alongside the First Legion?

Iirc, the Knight House Orhlacc was mentioned to be tied to the Dark Angels, as the First were the ones who rediscovered/rescued them. Not sure about the Titan Legions though

[bluntblade]

More Night Lords stuff perhaps as well? Making them one of the more extremely fleshed out Traitor legions. Not just in models, but rites/special rules etc.

 

Krash

I was thinking the same, but in terms of campaigns. Within the Black Books, the Night Lords have been part of the Dropsite Massacre and then somewhere in the periphery, with Retribution portraying the Legion in severe disarray and then in outright freefall.

[RedFurioso]

But I wonder who served alongside the First Legion?

Legio Victorum (Foe Slayers) fought for the loyalist forge-world Triplex-Fall, though their traitor elements attacked Legio Atarus on the ice world Trallsak

[1ncarnadine]

Nice catch! And Triplex-Phall is definitely in the Thramas sector, so we're likely to see it involved. I wonder if we'll see the apparent division in Legio Victorum explained as well?

The next closest major Forge World is Gulgorahd, which we know to have been a major Loyalist hold-out via Book 6.

 

Iirc, the Knight House Orhlacc was mentioned to be tied to the Dark Angels, as the First were the ones who rediscovered/rescued them. Not sure about the Titan Legions though

 

The thing is, we do know a little about where House Orhlacc was at the start of the Heresy, and Thramas would be about the same time frame as what Conquest covered. Still, maybe?

With the Dark Angels, it's more likely to be whatever's serving in their expeditionary fleets at that time, which could be a lot of things. Although there are also supposedly two Forge Worlds in the sector that the Night Lords just ruin, so maybe there are vengeful Titan Legions associated with those involved in the fighting.

[Nova_Dew]

 

From today's seminar apparently:

 

 

- The Dark Angels: Full background for Legion and Primarch, plus rules, new units, Rites of War and Hexagrammaton.

 

- Dark Technology: Background and rules making ancient relics available to a range of factions.

 

- The Dark Mechanicum: Full background and rules, including many new units.

 

- Engine War: Background on the Titan Legions and Knight Houses of the Thramas Crusade.

 

- The Thramas Crusade: Background and campaign rules for the Night Lords and their Dark Mechanicum allies and the Dark Angels fighting for control of the Eastern Fringe.

 

 

From the wording, it seems the rites of war and the hexagrammaton are separate, maybe since FW are planning a full system wide campaign system for book 9 iirc, the hexagrammaton could be alternate FOC's to better fit that or it could just be a full write up of the, since the Stormwing are zone mortalis and that style of game has already been done and other's can maybe be covered by other generic RoW's.

 

Also careful with being pleased with getting a lot in one book, it may mean having to wait a long time to be covered again, since the DA's to the best of my knowledge come up next with the battle at Caliban and i suspect that's going to be covered, if at all, much later in our life time's.

 

But i hope you have a good black book and hope you don't have to wait much longer.