BA - The RoW to fix the Angel (3k)

[mechadryad]

Ok, so Day of the Bible isn't a good RoW for Sanguinius.

 

The boy's abilities need him to charge and be able to move, thus requiring units to get him unstuck or Hit and Run to let him get out on his own. Angel's Wrath gives him the thing he needs to function alone while boosting the army.

 

 

HQ

 

Chaplian - Blade of Predition, Jump, AA, Refractor (145)

 

The HQ doesn't matter too much, but you've got 150pts to play with

 

Troops

 

Dawnbreakers - 10 man, Spears, Blade of Predition (355)

 

Dawnbreakers - 10 man, Spears, Blade of Predition (355)

 

Dawnbreakers - 10 man, Spears, Blade of Predition (355)

 

Sanguinius makes them troops so let's use them

 

Elites

 

3 Apothecaries - Jump (180)

 

2+ is good but backing that up with FnP is better

 

Fast Attack

 

Xiphon - Ground Tracking (215)

 

Xiphon - Ground Tracking (215)

 

This is the heavy anti tank, the army is rather light on it but Xiphons are criminally overlooked

 

Heavy Support

 

Fire Raptor - Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles (230)

 

Fire Raptor - Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles (230)

 

Fire Raptor - Reaper Autocannons, Hellstrike Missiles (230)

 

A personal preference but the firepower these things bring deal with blobs and transports. Also I have deamons in my meta so I'm implementing a no fly-zone

 

Lord of War

 

Sanguinius

 

Need I say more?

Sanguinius can start on the field alone and ninja through cover until reinforcements arrive or lead the charge from the get go. When using fliers you have to be sure you've got something on the field that can hold out of a turn and few things do that as well as a primarch.

 

Total: 2,995

 

So this is what I believe to be the best way to run Sanguinius, if you have any opinions on it then speak up. I'd like to know if/why you agree or disagree or if you have other ideas, I've not really come many across lists that use the primarch as more than a beatstick besides Ferrus and Alpharius

[Purge the Daemon]

Primarchs primarily are beat sticks while some (not angron) do buff your forces they roll around with a 6 in each stat and the war gear of gods because they are basically combat mcs that can join squads.

 

Xiphons are nice models but they are made from paper and without them you have no antitank I would heavily recommend lightings they do real damage with krakens and will at least kill what they shoot at even if it's a spartan.

 

3 fire raptors and 2 xiphons you have very limited bodies for objective capturing and honestly you would basically auto lose to custodes/mechanicum/armies with s8 ap2 or better templates as well since you'll just get tabled.

 

Personally I think day of revelation isnt actually that bad sanguinius is mathematically one of the best combat primarchs especially for killing non primarch units (since primarch fighting doesnt end unless you use alpharius and than it goes like praetorian of tera...)

 

I would personally just run day since you are less likely to be tabled and then just toss in podding dreads (leviathans) for anti armour and far more actual board presence and guaranteed come in turn 1 for basically your whole army.

 

I do agree dawnbreakers 100% need apothecaries 2+/5++ makes them very survivable as long as they arent eating ap2 to the face. Day of revelations would also provide a t1 cover save that is quite strong with night fighting and pods.

 

 

I really feel like youd just regret spending half your points on unreliable reserves and hoping your fliers can out out the same ranged firepower as a whole army. Hit and run is pretty damn good but your dawnbreakers are I4 so it's not like it's super easy to use for them but not to say it's not a benefit but that is instead of the buffs from day and +1 int power spear dawnbreakers are actually nutty. Sanguinius solo is playable but hes not that tough and hes not invis like corax without a unit I think hes honestly free VP for your opponent unless your whole plan is to hide him behind buildings but why the hell take him then.

 

My criticism might sound a bit harsh but I just dont think youd have a good time playing this list. Not to say Angel's wrath isnt decent for him but you should then be making more use of the hit and run which 1000+ points of flyers doesnt really do.

[mechadryad]

I think your view of primarchs is a bit narrow minded, I've used more then half of the primarchs and while most people shackle them to a squad I feel that's other ways to use them like picking off less melee orientated squads or forcing them off of objectives. I found Curze to be great at this and Sanguinius has the same potential but hit and run is necessary to avoid being pinned down.

 

Xiphons are a preference for me due to taking more of an anti-spartian stance (which has seen them abandoned in my meta due to ineffectiveness), they've also been a long standing part of my threat annihilation combos using other squads to thin out the meatshields. They have a pretty crazy kill count between them.

I'd considered Lightnings but the points cost are really tight here so they don't quite fit, also the fact that they are burst damage doesn't sit well with me in elite style lists since I need reusable anti tank.

 

"Dice don't know the laws of average" and this is me specifically trying to avoid primarch duels

 

Proper positioning and excellent manoeuvrability means far more than you'd realise, there's only 1 unit that meets the criteria you state while ignoring cover (Thanatars) and I've beaten worse matchups then that. Even then saying you insta-lose is flat out wrong, a challenge I'd agree with but claiming it's impossible to survive is just a lie.

Custodes are a problem for everyone, book 8 has helped that but I'll need more experience with how this change has affected them before I comment on them.

 

I get that you'd rather run the Gospel but I don't want to play the list FW tells me to and I have seen time and again that doing something unconventional can change the game entirely, it adds tension and most importantly it's fun. Jolemai's mechanised list is one of my favourite lists on here because it sticks the middle finger to the army that the legion's rules tell you to play, not just assault squads and dreadnoughts for the millionth time.

I call my WB character bomb the A-men choose the most unholy powers for maximum irony.

 

I can get a 4++ from being in cover (3++ with NF), what's your point? I've watched someone stall for 2 full turns with a single marine in a 3k game on a 4ft square board, hiding to pick your spot is very much an option.

 

If I wanted reliable I'd play chess (and then attempt to bash my brains in on the table) rather an opponent often gets forced to play around the reserves lest they get caught in the open and punished for it. All the way back in 4th (when reserves started on a 4+) I learnt that having more reserves can mitigate that reserve roll.

I'd like to pose the question of what if your Dawnbreakers can't finish the combat? Where's your I5 then? Your AP2 is all the way back in the first round of combat. Also are you really gonna tell the habitual WS player that I4 hit and run is bad?

I can hide Sanguinius in a squad if I want but hiding him in combat is just more fun and the lingering threat of him hiding in a nearby piece of terrain like a lictor is quite the double bind.

 

Your criticism is mainly reliant on math and statistics, allowing no room for strategy or psychological tactics. I never said DoR was bad, I just said it doesn't do much for Sanguinius. There's more ways to play than Zerg rush.

[Theredknight]

That’s a lot of unreliable reserves there!

Any chance of squeezing in a Damocles?

Having played BA best part of a year and a bit I have tried everything without and reinforcing reserves (pods and especially raptors!!) end up arriving t4 when I have been trounced more than you would like.

 

Considers this.. on the tree of woe.

[mechadryad]

That’s a lot of unreliable reserves there!

Any chance of squeezing in a Damocles?

Having played BA best part of a year and a bit I have tried everything without and reinforcing reserves (pods and especially raptors!!) end up arriving t4 when I have been trounced more than you would like.

 

Considers this.. on the tree of woe.

 

I think your dice are mad at you, I usually only have about 2 units stay in reserve without manipulation. I used to play with 1 Flyer but it would always show up too late, I tried 2 and at least one would show up. Being a Flyer is good protection but if you have a lot of reserves you have to pick your fights carefully and be ok with potentially wasting a turn doing nothing.

 

Unfortunately the RoW requires all vehicles to be flyers or skimmers, I have considered trying to wedge in a Javelin as I have enough of them and it's a bit more anti-tank, it's quite possible that Assault Squads may be the better choice over Dawnbreakers since with how I run them they're 65 points less.

 

In a game ruled by dice I call anything better then 60% reliable

[lilloser]

I really like the list and agree hit and run with the angel boosts him up a tier.

 

I’d personally prefer more bodies on the ground. Perhaps dropping a fire raptor for a unit of assault marines just to sit on objectives/ use as bulk attacks against hordes.

 

But the list works on paper. Make sure you update this thread with any in world experience.

[Ironandforge]

i like it, i run something similar but add in more chaplains for zealot and a cataphractii preator.  Im not sure the apothecaries can join the dawn breakers but great if they can.  i also have a 9 man squad of Cataphracts with lightning claws and 2 assault cannons that run around with my praetor and a primus medice.  my meta seems to be much more infantry heavy than yours, my main opponent runs 3x 20 blocks of world eaters.  

[Spiritual Liege]

They can join Dawnbreakers. The only conditions are that the unit is Infantry, Legiones Astartes and not equipped with Terminator armour or the Daemon special rule.

[Charlo]

It's nice, but 3 FR is a bit... Overkill? Maybe mix it up with a Contemptor or Terminators inside a Dreadclaw, or even better a big ol' Khyrbdis full of nasties!